Oh man, PTT probs from external harddrive.

Comments

DGrob wrote on 2/12/2003, 2:25 PM
I'll add that concept to my next bout. Once PTT from C and once from external. Hmmm.
Were your firewire-chained drives powered as you connected them?

Contour Shuttle Pro? You dog! Ida gone for ice cream and/or single malt! Would have addressed your head cold at the same time. Grob
Grazie wrote on 2/12/2003, 3:43 PM
"Were your firewire-chained drives powered as you connected them?" - No, they ARE always WIRED/connected to the laptop - BUT are powered-up AFTER the pc has finished its boot.

"Contour Shuttle Pro? You dog!" - Been playing with it - WOW! I can see my putput is going to increase.

Had a shot of Famous Grouse when I got home - Poor me!

Grazie
DGrob wrote on 2/13/2003, 10:12 AM
OK. Connected and powered Canon. Booted up. Rendered clip to C and went PTT from Capture menu. Perfect. Hmmmm.

Went PTT from timeline. Pre-renders PTT fine, clips accessed from external - BS.

Rendered to external. PTT from Capture menu, extreme BS.

Imported rendered file to timeline, it's perfect.

Everything going out to the external gets there intact. I can import back onto C from external and it's still intact. I PTT from external (from both timeline and rendered files, and it's all BSs all the time.

By the bye, rendering to the 7200rpm Maxtor is twice as fast as rendering to my 5400rpm internal.

Gonna take this to Maxtor support and see if they have anything to offer. As I recall you have a Maxtor PCM firewire - right? Mine's Belkin. I'll try to access Belkin re their card/driver and see if they can be of any help.

For now, I'll just render/save to E, import to C, and PTT from there.

Let me know how your driver/booting/sequencing procedure holds up. Thanks again. Grob
Grazie wrote on 2/13/2003, 10:52 AM
Grob - Interesting. Many possble variables. But let's get some things straight first - yes?.

1 - Are you having "better", repeatable and consistent results having the camera on and connected BEFORE boot-up? - If this is the case then maybe we are looking at the driver stack for your camera getting in front of the "load" queue. Appears to have worked for me. That's one possible.

2 - Do you have your Prerender Folder on the external? Could you be clearer about "Went PTT from timeline. Pre-renders PTT fine, clips accessed from external - BS." - Are you saying you place your prerenders back on to the TL? I wouldn't have thought so - but I have to ask - yes?

3 - Please unpick this for me, "Rendered to external. PTT from Capture menu, extreme BS. "

4 - "Imported rendered file" (from where? Ext or C:) "to timeline, it's perfect."

5 - "Everything going out to the external gets there intact." How do you know?

6 - "I can import back onto C from external and it's still intact." Good!

7 - "I PTT from external (from both timeline and rendered files, and it's all BSs all the time." - This I understand.

8 - My internal is running at 7,200rpm - I don't know this, but could there be a potential mismatch, "By the bye, rendering to the 7200rpm Maxtor is twice as fast as rendering to my 5400rpm internal." I guess that would be the case. - Can't say

9 - "Gonna take this to Maxtor support and see if they have anything to offer. As I recall you have a Maxtor PCM firewire - right?" MAXTOR PCMCIA firewire card here.

10 - "Mine's Belkin. I'll try to access Belkin re their card/driver and see if they can be of any help." Understood - ask if there are any known issues with the MAXTOR

11- "For now, I'll just render/save to E, import to C, and PTT from there." A real pain, but if it works for the time being - okay dokey!

12 - "Let me know how your driver/booting/sequencing procedure holds up." - So far so good. No BS if I boot-up with the cammy ON and Connected first.

The external/C: speed mismatch shouldn't be an issue - maybe if you have the Prerender Files folders on a "slower" drive, AND at the same time you are acccessing a faster drive - Hmmmm.... I still think this is a s/w issue and not a hardware one. It would be really good if a SoFo-Boffin jumped in here and did a bit of hand holding - HI THERE Deef! . . . .

Grazie
DGrob wrote on 2/13/2003, 12:34 PM
Howdy Grazie (and Deef?)

1. Camera on and preconnected before boot has cleaned up my PTT from C drive. Maxtor referances sequence importance in their Knowledge Bass.
2. I haven't touched default pre-render storage. I assume they're tucked away on C. They seem to PTT fine.
3. I rendered to a directory on E. Opened that file in the "Capture . . ." menu and attempted to PTT. PTT data flow would be E drive to PC to Canon.
4. I opened the rendered .avi on E into the V3 timeline back on C - 1 video track and 1 audio track. It previews exactly as it should. I think that implies that the render from V3 on C to the E drive directory, and the retrieval from E back into V3 were correct and intact. i.e., the data flow was uninterrupted in both directions.
5. How do I know the render to E is ok? see #4.
8. 7200rpm talking to 5400rpm? Yes, I've been dwelling on that as well.
9 & 10. Maxtor and Belkin are unaware of any incompatibility issues. God only knows what Dell is aware of, I can't talk to those people.
12. Hmmm. One data transfer rate from 7200rpm E to 5400rpm C, another data processing rate on C at 5400rpm?, and another transfer rate from C to Canon? Buffered? Cached? Deef?
Grob
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/13/2003, 1:31 PM
Hi FOlks,

Ive been following yer thread here...


Have you folks tried the "Preview on Device" in Capture?

Howbout Manual PTT with no device control?

(Sorry if you've covered this already.)


mph
Grazie wrote on 2/13/2003, 2:02 PM
Hiyah Marty!

I've done manual control in VF through the DHB AV<>DV<>AV, with BS.

Haven't tried this in V3 or V4.

I'm focussing in on Driver control and the Cammy getting there first on boot-up. GOOD on Cammy ON first - BAD when Cammy plugged in AFTER boot-up.

I attended our Video Forum Expo in London over the past 2 days. Took my kit along and had some truly valuable input - pointing towards drivers - yes?

Waddya think MArty? I can give you a breakdown of the drivers in my Device Manager>Imaging Device . Perhaps you could compare them to what you have - yes? Currently I've 10 going on!

Grazie
DGrob wrote on 2/13/2003, 7:03 PM
Thanks Martyh. Tried both this evening. Same BS. Have even gone so far as to copy my rendered file on E and paste on C, PTT went flawlessly from C. The problem seems isolated to the E to PC to Canon configuation when PTT. Capture backwards, Canon to PC to E, flawless. Drivers next. maxtor and belkin knowledge bases and support don't have any similar probs. Grob
Grazie wrote on 2/13/2003, 11:57 PM
Question - "Slowness Masking Flaw" : - As you are getting "better" results from the C: , is it possible that a SLOWER hd - 5400 - is hiding/masking a flaw in the "pipework"? That is, there is a problem from the 7200 to the Canon, maybe the slower C: allows for more constant flow? After all, DV stuff is about the flowing the file from "A" to "B" and then onto "C" - yes?

Question - "Speed Mismatch & Prerender Folder" : - Do you think that with the two drive speeds, having the rendered file on E and the prerender folder on C: could make a dta flow mismatch? When I render from timeline, I've got a Prerender folder on H and the actual video file/s on I. These are both 7200 and 120gb with 2mb buffer. My C drive doesn't move a muscle. The two externals whirr away to each other. Lots of data transerring going on ALL at the same rate ALL with the same buffer - yes? - Have you contemplated having a "test" prerendering folder on the E drive, just to check out the "mismatch" theory we are skirting around??? Hmmmm . . could be interesting . . . I suppose what this could mean: Same Drive Speed [ie itself - at 7200! ]; The C drive isn't - I think - involved; RAM gets to be used "solely" for this process and doesn't have to speak to the C drive AND the E at the same time - I can't guarrantee any improvements - but hey!?! - Oh rember to change the Preference Settings for the Project for the new place for the Prerender folder - yeah?

It's up to you Grob - just a thought . . . Oh, do you still employ FanGui? I have to do this, otherwise the same "fan:BS" stuff happens with me?

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 2/14/2003, 7:32 AM
Marty & Grob & anybody else . . .

Here are my drivers that Device Mangager tells me it is loading - yes? There is lump of 10 of them. Is this normal? Does anybody recognise or refute any of them? What is the NT kernal thingy doing there??? - Hang over from Mr Gates' wish to have everytrhing available to us all - just in case?

C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\DIRECTX\MIGRATE\msdv.sys
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32.VXD [ntkern.vxd]
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VFWWDM32.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VFWWDM.DRV
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KSWDMCAP.AX
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KSXBAR.AX
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KSTUNE.AX
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSYUV.DLL
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\STREAM.SYS
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\MSDV.SYS


NOW then boys 'n gals - how does this compare to your own? Hmmmmm . . ?

Now the other thing is that old chestnut of "PLug 'n Play" - What is actually happeneing when we do this? When I plug my Canon camera into the 1394 port, it must somehow "cranked-up" the need for the machine to speak to the Canon - yes? Okay, how is this done? Not in tooo much detail. But what I am finding that if I have my Canon plugged in and switched on prior to boot-up, the PTT behaves itself. IF I should be soooo demented to think I can plug 'n play my Canon - BS - guarranteed!

So, good people - let me hear your thoughts on this - As I really wanna to KILL THIS SUCKER ONCE AND FOR ALL! Apart from anything else IT IS GETting MIGTHILY BORING!!!

Seeyah,

Grazie
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/15/2003, 7:02 AM
Hi G, G,..

Here are screenshots:

Drivers for imaging device (sony handycam)

Some other stuff I tripped over that you might check out: Read-Ahead and Write-Behind

IDdrivers-Sony.JPG

R-Aoptim.JPG

W-Bcaching.JPG




HTH, MPH

DGrob wrote on 2/15/2003, 9:58 AM
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\ks.sys
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\msdv.sys
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\stream.sys
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\iyuv_32.dll
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ksproxy.ax
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\kstytune.ax
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ksuser.dll
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\kswdmcap.ax
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ksxbar.ax
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\msh263.drv
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\msyuv.dll
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\tsbyuv.dll
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\vfwindm32.dll

A new record!

Grazie, ref encounter w/ sequence of power-connect-boot: saw a ref in one of the Dell sites. As you probably know, navigation over there is tedious. I'll have to work my way back to it. In general, the statement specified order of connection, but gave no info as to why. I'll try to relocate and post it to you. Grob
Grazie wrote on 2/15/2003, 10:58 AM
Thanks Grob and Marty.

Drivers and their order could be at the bottom of this stuff.

Marty - Interested in the re-ahead stuff. Presently it's 0 for me. Hmmmmm.... Marty, what order do you connected Cammy and boot-up?

Grob - Interested in the site you spoke of - ie Boot-up order.

I've got a "multiple-choice" going on this Forum for the preffered boot-up order.

Grazie
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/15/2003, 11:15 AM
Hi Grazie,

The Sony cammy/laptop combo is indifferent to the order... I usually have the PC running and hot-plug a running cammy or drive.

(WinME)



hth, mph
Grazie wrote on 2/15/2003, 11:32 AM
Thanks Marty.

You have WinME - So do I. So far I get no BS when I connect the cammy prior to boot-up. Do you think not having any REad-Ahead could do something to not allow the RAM or programme to stop BS from happenning? Sorry MArty - I'll make that easier:

100 Read-Ahead = No BS
0 Read-Ahead = BS

Simple is better!

Grazie
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/15/2003, 8:31 PM
Here's another thought...

Grob and Grazie, you both upgraded from VF?

Did you uninstall VF?

Did VF work well - no interruptions?

Phil (if you're around), did you ever have VF on your machine?


just potshots, but ya never know...


mph


ps: I did/do have VF on my sony. VF>V2>V3>V4b>V4

pps: Dell-tolls... that's good Grob!

PPPs: Grob, FWIW, Belkin has a pretty bad rep.
Grazie wrote on 2/16/2003, 1:36 AM
Hiyah Marty!

"upgraded from VF?" - Yes

"Did you uninstall VF?" - No

"Did VF work well - no interruptions?" - Yes everything, except BS!

I have VF on my Dell Inspiron. VF>V3>>V4

I do have a Belkin 4xUsb hub.

Marty, thanks for the screen shots - interesting. What do think about the difference between yours and mine "Read-Ahead" - Yours=Full - Me=None

Again, "Enable removable disks" - what would this do?

Grazie
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/16/2003, 7:12 AM
Hi Gra, Gro, all...

Read-ahead is typically set to none for video.. still not sure why.

Write-behind caching holds data in memory to accomodate slow (very old) drives, and is also typically set to off for video.

My gut notion is that these features may interrupt sequential data flow... possibly causing bus collisions? (No real evidence, just a guess.)

I don't think these is at the root of the issue here, but it is notable that you can run better with WBC at 100.

I might also check the 1394 host controller drivers/settings to see what's cooking there.


hth, mph
DGrob wrote on 2/16/2003, 8:08 AM
Good morning gents:

Ran VF and V3 side by side for a bit, then uninstalled VF. VF worked well with Fangui added and using the internal drive only. No difference in V3, so far.

Grazie, haven't retraced my Dell reference to connection sequencing, but it was there and I'm looking (in their hints and tips as I recall). I also note that the manual accompanying the Belkin 1394 PCM (purchased through Dell, proprietary?) mentions under "Troubleshooting"
1. Be sure to turn your camcorder on before starting MGI Videowave so that the software will recognise your camcorder. (Hissssss)

I'ms still looking for read ahead and write behind on my XP system. Ideas?

Grob
Tyler.Durden wrote on 2/16/2003, 8:20 AM
Yikes! MGI = plague...

Grazie, did you also have MGI?

Grob, Control Panel>System>Performance>File System> Numerous tabs to review... (winME, sorry... might be able to check xp later at the neighbor's)


mph
pdmath wrote on 2/16/2003, 9:44 AM
Phil here...never have had VF
Grazie wrote on 2/16/2003, 10:07 AM
Marty -

VideoSlave -YEEEssssss . .. V3 and then I upgraded to . . . . I can't belive I'm saying this . . . . VV5 - UUuuughhhh yuCK!

Marty - My Read ahead is NIL, NOTHING, ZILCH. - Youve gor REad Ahead set at FULL - yes? I know you aren't sure if this is at the root casue - but, NONE and your is FULL.

"I might also check the 1394 host controller drivers/settings to see what's cooking there." What should I be looking for?

Phil - Have YOU ever had VideoWave? Any flavour?

I do think we are "bearing" down on this SUCKER - and FAST!

PLease keep the faith with me [GROB too ] - We have both proved that our systems "do it" - but it is this last link in the PTT chain we need to nail - yeah?

Grazie
pdmath wrote on 2/16/2003, 10:11 AM
I did have VideoWave ages ago...if I remember correctly it seemed to cause problems. I had other problems back then and ended up having to totally reformat my drive and reinstall....so Video Wave has never been on my system since the reformat.
Grazie wrote on 2/16/2003, 10:15 AM
Phil, thanks for the speedy reply. Maybe that wretched programme has "set-up" my system for VV operstion? Maybe I need to alter my settings to adjust to a "sane" program?

Grazie