Good to see Apple "seeding" their "core" values in others. Vegas could be "pipped" at the post, and only left to stalk.

G

The layout of FCPx is reminiscent of the original Vegas GUI. (one window/edit on the timeline)

I would be OK with iFCP/iMoviePro/FCPx if:
- It saved its individual projects to an individual file that I could organize in an individual folder structure based on individual clients. (No Workarounds. Just a simple "Save As")

- It gave me a Source Monitor ('Skimming the clips and setting Rough In/Out doesn't work for me)

- It allowed me to move, dock, reposition the windows.

- It didn't try to change the nomenclature of everything that is editing.

* If you know of how to do the above mentioned things in iFCP/iMoviePro/FCPx, do tell. I learned Vegas because Sonic Foundry Vegas Audio/Video was on a disc when I bought something else.

- I learned Avid because that was what 'professionals' edit on. I learned FCP because lots of post houses were abandoning Avid and going with FCP. I learned Premiere because most of my Corporate/Office Jobs were using Adobe products. Now, I'm not sure if FCPx will regain its status or not but I figure it's good to know just in case the industry finally accepts it.

Funny thing is, when you read the posts about the iFCP/iMoviePro/FCPx update, everyone sings praises as if the entire NLE world has been without these things until the update. I own it but don't use it. Maybe I'll revisit when x2 is released?

I wish the FXFactory plugins would come to the PC

WOW...
......Multicam Editing
Advanced Chroma Keying
Import Layered Adobe Photoshop Graphics.

Now finally in a Professional NLE, These are truly revolutionary features that
will certainly turn heads and take the editing world by storm...We have to get
FCP-X.

I think he maybe "funnin" us.
JJK

Actually Vegas has been ahead of the curve for many years. Even before FCP's fall from grace, Vegas had features that people oohed and aahed at when they introduced them in FCP just a few years ago.

Things like multiple formats on the timeline, using MP3 audio, realtime previews. These are relatively new to FCP. Many people forget that FCP was thought of as toy software for a long time. It just caught on for some reason, mainly cost. But before that, people laughed if you used it. Vegas has always been respected, just not well known.

And believe me FCP is not frame accurate when outputting to tape and still has some bizarre limitations even before FCP-X. I always liked Vegas because it was hardware agnostic, and I still think that is a superior approach.

Dave T2

One thing Final Cut has always done well though (at least until version X) is interface with other programs. One of the reasons pro adopted it. Vegas really lacks in this area.

Marc S, yes it does play well with others. And Vegas is working toward that.

Dave T2

"And Vegas is working toward that."

I'd suggest the exact opposite is closer to the truth.
We used to have some semblance of support for industry standard project interchange but now even that has been removed. I see nothing in the last few years worth of features added to Vegas to suggest any move towards making it easier to get things out of Vegas into other applications. In that timeframe the industry has developed new interchange formats and many other vendors are supporting them. The industry is going forward while Vegas is going backwards.

That probably doesn't matter to the vast majority of Vegas users but it does matter to those who might use Vegas but are held back by this lack of functionality.

Bob.

Bob,

I was referring to things like OFX, VST and other industry standard options. Also being able to import Photoshop Layers.

Dave T2

Dave,
in that case, yes, that is a HUGE step forward for Vegas.
We are though I think a bit behind the bleeding edge on the audio side. Perhaps just as well, some of the latest developments could be a bear to get working in an app that also has to handle video.

Bob.

We are though I think a bit behind the bleeding edge on the audio side. Perhaps just as well, some of the latest developments could be a bear to get working in an app that also has to handle video.

Do other apps do real time surround mixing yet? That's one of my favorite Vegas audio features (really blows people away when I would show them). Besides that I normally just use multiple tracks of audio and do a little track-based EQ & the like.

I was referring to not being able to export/import basic projects into other programs like AE, premiere etc.

It's true that they seem to be getting better on the plugin front but they still have major level issues that prevent (for example) using Vegas rendered Cineform files from being used in other programs like AE without level shifts. Vegas is a good closed system but does not play well with others in the sandbox.

I think Adobe's integration need clarification: they bought companies with software they wanted to integrate together and integrated them together, they just didn't come up with everything on their own. SCS/SF didn't do that, they created their own stuff and it's unique because of it.

What SCS software lacks in interrogation it makes up in other ways (that aren't even really features, just design decisions) like using multiple instances, lots of simple composite capability built in, ability to modify files Vegas uses outside Vegas and have it updated when you switch back to Vegas, etc.

Doesn't do any good however when Vegas has issues and crashes frequently.

>>>>We are though I think a bit behind the bleeding edge on the audio side<<<

We are??? Like what? FCP, Avid and Premiere are a joke on the audio side, that's why they need a whole different app to do the audio work. By themselves they can't do anything. Vegas can do everything.

"We are??? Like what? FCP, Avid and Premiere are a joke on the audio side"

They're all vision editors!
Compare Vegas to Nuendo, Soundscape and Protools.

"Bleeding edge" refers to advances in technology, not what the competition is doing.
Vegas now supports the OFX interface for video plugins. What it doesn't support on the audio side is ASIO 2.0. It doesn't fully support Rewire and it still doesn't fully support BWF which is remarkable for an application that does sound for vision. Both Rewire and the BWF file format are over a decade old. ASIO 2.0 is a couple of years old.

Bob.

Well, that is something people should not forget. I keep telling people that vegas is like Protools and ( insert whatever other NLE you want here ) in one. They still keep complaining how some new editor has a couple of newer features ( who cares, usually it's nothing anybody needs ).

That alone puts it ( always has ) above Premiere, FCP and Avid. When it also beats them at its own game too ( video editing ) it becomes embarrassing for the competition.

I understand where you are coming from if you have to share projects with others, but for somebody working within Vegas alone (+ Fusion for compositing/effects ), it has always done both, audio and video extremely well.

If people can't appreciate what Vegas does and complain about $150 updates, my advice is Buy Avid + prootools and see how much that costs and how well it will work on your machine ( if it even lets you install it ). Feeling really adventurous?? maybe they should go for a Mac, shouldn't set them back more than $4000 and may work occasionally too.

Funny how when someone threatens to go to [other NLE] and dump Vegas. They wind up back here after a short absence.

Its not that funny Steve, they wouldnt be leaving in the first place if v11 first build worked as it should have.

Paul.

Please - if you want to sing the praises of Vegas' audio capabilities go right ahead. You are on solid ground. Where you lose me is "When it also beats them (Premiere, Aid, FCP) at its own game too ( video editing ) it becomes embarrassing for the competition."

Avid is hardly embarrassed as regards Media Composer's video editing relative to Sony Vegas.


JJM

I heard a couple of production companies (big in their area I guess) were migrating from FCP. Then I read this:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2012/01/video-pros-apple-needs-to-acknowledge-the-pro-industry-and-fast.ars

The reality is, FCP X REALLY ticked people off. Imagine VP becoming a much more gimped version (oh, say, without multicam, keying, or importing layered PSD's*).

(as an aside, I've just starting using layered PSD's in VP11 - talk about making my compositing life easier...there are three projects I can now put AE aside for - woot!)

In other news: Firefox spell check keeps trying to change compositing to composting. It may have something there.

The article you cited underscores my point . Sadly, Vegas isn't even mentioned in a piece about movement/market share within the professional NLE market.


JJM

Steve, I went to Premiere Pro CS5.5 a year ago and I'm still there.