I agree, TMPGenc has a better low-bitrate MPEG1 encoder. MPEG1 can have many different bitrates, frame sizes, etc., but you should find out what they require. It will look better if you can bump up the bitrate above what the standard VCD limit is. Standard VCD was designed to fit an hour of MPEG1 at VHS quality. Personally, I think that it looks a little worse than VHS at that spec, but if you use TMPGenc's best (very slow emcoding) option, it doesn't look too bad. Also, find out if you need to submit a VCD, which is not just an MPEG1 file ona CD (which you probably know).

The runtime is 4mins, so stacks of space on a plain CD. If they are wanting a VCD with a menu, I wouldn't know.

However I've just reaquianted myself with Nero Express that came with my editing system. I seem to remeber that NE wasn't a slouch in this format. BUT, NE is forcing an NTSC format on me - PAL here . . . . . hmmmm...

Thanks guys for the feedback. Spot? Yet again I've baffled you! . . . Thanks for trying though.

Grazie

How did you baffle me, Grazie? I'm just trying to figure out what you meant by "Which MPEG1 is best?" There is only one MPEG1. Lots of encoders, which is why I recommended two different encoders. MPEG1 is likely the most ubiquitous standard right now, plays on more settops and computers and portables than any other format that I'm aware of. But the end file is just MPEG 1. I guess you're right, you baffled me by asking "which MPEG1" when there is effectively only one MPEG 1.
Did I not answer your question in a way you could understand it?

Sorenson squeeze uses the main concpet encoder also (for mpeg1 and 2)


TMPGENC is one of the best mpeg1 encoders around (much better than procoder on this front) and for mpeg1 - it is free

nero mpeg encoding (any type) is about the worse you can get ....

Grazie, Tmpgenc is the better choice and don't use Nero for the encoding. A program call VCDeasy can easly give you menus and button functions for a VCD cd. Tmpgenc is simple and powerful.

I'm not sure what others think, but when i'm producing a short piece to be played elsewhere i'll often render to MPEG-1 from Vegas at 8Mbps CBR for 656x480 29.97fps and it looks quite good. Most people would be very hard pressed to notice any artifacts or other degredation. At that data rate you can fit about 12 or 13 minutes on a CD.

"nero mpeg encoding (any type) is about the worse you can get .... "

mpeg-1/2, yes. Mpeg-4 ASP/H2.64 AVC, nothing beats it.

not quite true -- specially for HD H264 encoding .. but that is another topic ..

BJM, Im confused. Are you saying Nero doesnt have the best HD H.264 encoding?

Spot - what MPEG1 format . . . meaning what rates and the like. Don't think I said, ' "Which MPEG1 is best?" ' . . . My title is, "... The BEST mpeg 1 format " .. not which is the best MPEG1? No? :)

Grazie

Not trying to be a pest, but MPEG1 is a format. You want to know the format settings.

Dave! Yes, that is it! I suppose if I was to be really on the ball I would hgave said what settings would you use for your template . ..

HOWEVER good people . . .. I hve downloaded Tmpgenc and have now used it. It passes the Grazie-Curve-of-Learning requirements hands down! . . .I remember attempting to fathom this back in my WinMisEry days and totally loosing the plot. But this latest version - 2.524.63.181 - is a totaly different product from what I tried to fathom some 3 years ago.

I just encoded using Tmpgenc . . and then waited for it to BURN! - Silly! Well I took the bull by the horns and just did a copy to CD - done! Played it on my standalone DVD player and the results are truly magic.

Question: Why, when my PAL format is 740 x 576 does the template give 352 x 288? The width isn't 1/2 of 740? . . Anybody?

Thanks people - especially SPOT! - for being patient with me . . .

Grazie

Theforce! . .Thank you . . forgot your input on the, " .. . but if you use TMPGenc's best (very slow emcoding) option, it doesn't look too bad." option. I'll try this in the morning . . . nearly midnight here in London and I need plenty of beauty sleep .. nite folks! This Veggie os off for a "kip"!

Grazzzzzzie :)

Grazie,

Visit VCD Help.com. Good step-by-step tutorials and loads of info about VCD mpeg1. Check out the latest Tmpgenc Express.

James

Question: Why, when my PAL format is 740 x 576 does the template give 352 x 288? The width isn't 1/2 of 740? . . Anybody?
Grazie,

Here is an analogy for you:
MP3 is a highly compressed audio format, but there is no "standard" bitrate. The higher the bitrate, the higher the quality. Most MP3's are encoded at 128 kbits/sec (around 1MB/minute), which sounds pretty good, and is relatively compact. However, if you make your MP3's 1,000kbits/sec, you would be defeating the purpose.

The standard VCD MPEG1 frame size for PAL happens to be 352 x 288 at 1150 kbits/sec. Again, that's what they came up with in order to get an hour's worth of VHS quality on a CD at the time. You can set different frame sizes, bitrates, etc., but that would no longer be a standard VCD. If you go too high, you "could" exceed that transfer speed that some VCD players (or CD drives on some PC's) can handle. For all you know, your client is just requesting MPEG1 format (not a VCD or a standard VCD-compliant MPEG1 file), and doesn't care what the bitrate or frame size it is. Not to confuse you further, but even if you reduce the bitrate on your MPEG1 file, and then make a VCD out of it with Nero or some other application, you won't get any more than an hour's worth of video on it, because I think that "filler" will be added in the process.

When I first got involved in this hobby of video editing not too long ago, making a VCD was quite a novelty, and you needed an "exotic" firewire or analog card to capture, an NLE to edit, a separate app like TMPGenc to encode MPEG1 decently and another app to burn in proper VCD format. Disk space was at a premium and CPUs were anemic. It was almost like building your own stero set. Forget about DVDs, menus, Dolby, and all the other niceties we now take for granted.

Also, there weren't many DVD players in the US that were capable of playing standard VCDs (Apex was among the first). Now, most new, cheapo DVD players will even play a non-compliant MPEG1 file burnt directly onto a CD (which is not a VCD at all), and be able to fast-forward and rewind through it.

My Philips DVP642 will even play an mpeg-2 file without having to been authoredwithin a DVD structure. This is how I have been checking my color of some of my edits since it supports DVD-/+RW. If it doesnt work, I just make change and erase the RW and start over. Its awesome.

Yes, mine does, too. I am sure there are plenty of people who think they are making perfectly fine "DVDs" or "VCDs" because they play on these machines, and then don't understand why some people have problems playing these disks. For that matter, most new DVD players will play MP3s off a CD perfectly, so folks are probably puzzled when these "CDs" won't play in the car stereo or boombox.

For a while, I used to distribute my projects on VCDs with instructions on how to play them on a PC (if they didn't have a DVD player that could play VCDs or have a software VCD/DVD player on their PC). You basically have to open up the MPEG1 file (which gets renamed to something like "AVSEQ01.DAT" in the VCD compilation process) in Windows Media Player. But now most people have DVD players, and the blank media is cheap.

Theforce - thanks again . .. so standards were set according to getting an hour onto a CD - yes? I can live with that. It was the "change" in the width that was making me think that the whole AVI was going to be distorted - you see?

OK - more info from the Judges office:

"Which MPEG standard should our video clip conform to?
Where authorities have asked this question the judges preference is for MPEG1. The preferred option is for judges to receive a high resolution/ low compression version. "

. . and . .

"Which resolution should we choose?
Authorities are free to choose whatever resolution they prefer but bigger is better. "


So, as high as possible . . I don't know what numbers they have in mind . . but I guess I could move the bit rate up somewhat. What would think I could get away with?

TIA

Grazie

Standard VCD is 1150kbits/sec, and TMPGenc's best quality ("very slow") template looks okay with that, and since you only have 4 minutes, why not try 6,000 or so (similar to DVD bitrate) and increase the framesize to DVD as well? I haven't done this in a whle, so I don't remember all the options. If it looks okay to you, then I'm sure it will be fine.

Maybe they just wanted to keep things simple in terms of allowing people to submit their entries so they'll fit on a CD, and not have to deal with 10 different encoding schemes.

Theforce ! Well what a revelation! This Tmpgenc is amazingly easy.

OK - I've tried and created my own Setting Templates - I have range. And yes I went to 6mbps. This rate made the audio sticky, kinda came and went. Dropped to 5 - same-ish. Then moved upwards from my original 4mbps - this was great but horiz scrolling text was a bit nasty - to 4.5mbps, and this waas just the business. And yes it has alomst come back to DVD quality, and really quite amazingly excellent too. However, when I pause OR fast forward search it tends to fall over when made to play at normal speed again.

My settings are:

1/- Very slow BEST encoding

2/- 4.5mbps

3/- Frame size to match my original PAL setting of 720 x 576 pixels

. .. and that's about it really! File size is still only 149mbs, leaving loads of space on a CD.

All in all, this has been quite a refreshing experience to see a piece of software - FREE software - perform and DO what it says it will. I like the batch rendering side PLUS the ability to create start and stop points, which for me meant I could test out those troublsome areas with a variety of settings and birn/copy in one shot. Simple!

. .and Theforce, thanks for the reassurances, nice, "If it looks okay to you, then I'm sure it will be fine." . .well it looks amazingly similar to my DVD output! The transitions - dissolves - are now beautifully transparent without those "blockies" you sometimes see outside of DVD.

Any ideas on the fast forward and restart issue?

TIA

Grazie

Grazie,

If you are playing it directly off a CD, I would expect it could be jerky at those high bitrates. As I recall, on a P3 450Mhz machine (not sure about the speed of the CD Drive or the RAM), I remember MPEG1s would start getting jerky above 2MB/sec.

Considering it's the same "price", maybe you should just put two versions (lower res VCD style and the higher bitrate version) on the same CD. Or if you really want to splurge, on two separate CDs.