Hey Blink, welcome back...... :)

BTW I like Sony ProEdit 10. Sounds good

"Hey Blink, welcome back...... :) '

Totally uncalled for.

I understand your frustration with Apple because I too had 3 Macs over the years and they are not as great as Mac zealots and Apple try to convince the world they are. I think FCP is an excellent NLE and my second choice after Vegas, but I don't think it's a good idea for you to get rid of the Mac, if you have a Mac Pro and not an iMac. Mac Pros are great machines and if you want to get a PC with the same specs it would probably cost you the same or close to it, because they use very expensive motherboards and processors. The processing power of those things is insane. Whatever glitches you're having on the Windows side, I'm sure they can be taken care of, at worst by doing a full reformat.

But if you want to go back to Vegas, try to get 8.0c, 9 has caused headaches to many people around here and you can't edit AVCHD in it without converting to an intermediate (you can, but it works horrible).

"Hope to get a quiet machine"...- I'm running a newer HP Pavilion 6210f and it's totally quiet. It's right under my desk and I can't hear it until I put my ear up to it. Also, Dell sells machines that are advertised as "quiet". Just got rid of my older one and it never could be heard. They are out there, just don't by the cheapest clone builder and you'll probaby get a fan/power supply that is quiet.

"Virus's etc" - I'm using the newer MS Security Essentials and it seems fine. Very benign compared to any of the other antivirus apps.

Both systems, Mac & Windows have their issues. WIndows 7 64 bit seems pretty stable, though there are always driver issues with Windows. Already have had some blue screens of death w/updates to video drivers....sigh...

If I had bought a MacPro, I would load Windows via VMWare in a virtual machine to start with. Why? Because I've had numerous problems running Bootcamp and Windows 7. Blue screens abound and I've actually lost the Windows 7 'partition' entirely for reasons that were awfully vague. It seems VMware have got the best product out there for virtual on the Mac, as I've not been able to offload the VM to a second drive using Parallels. But I've been focused on VV w/Win7 for a month now, so I can't say that Parrallels haven't fixed that issue. By the way, on Windows 7 (Pro or Ultimate) you can run virtualization and run XP or other OS's. I tried my hand at this, and I recommend VMware again, as WIndows Virtualization on 7 does not 'support' other 64 bit OSs, and VMWare does. It seems MS is focused on marketing running other OS's on their server products only. Sigh...

So maybe for those wanting the best of both worlds, and have already ponied up for the MacPro (which I don't want to do at this point), get VMWare (no commercial interest in this product myself), lots of RAM, and run both VV and FCP side by side ? Of course, never can tell what problems that will raise (grin).

". . . on Windows 7 (Pro or Ultimate) you can run virtualization and run XP or other OS's."

yup, but don't. It's agonizingly slow, has limited capabilities.

You got it right - get VMware. Even it runs a tad slow, as do all virtual machines.

In 10 minutes you can created a free VMware WinXP machine to run inside of Win 7 64 (or 32) if you go to http://easyvmx.com/. I chose the first of their three icons, and set it up for Vista 64bit, Win7 64 not being an option. I use it for those apps that won't run in Win 7 or are incompatible with other apps that I use (old PageMaker won't run with installed Acrobat versions later than 4!).

The Beatles wasn't a stupid name, it was a play on The Crickets as in Buddy Holly's band and also a play on backbeat.

I like Sony ProEdit 10.

As for Quiet PC's you can definitely get quiet PCs. Just start with a quiet case like the Antec 183. Here's a company that builds with that case
http://www.pugetsystems.com/serenity.php

Dell, HP and Lenovo all make workstation computers that are powerful and quiet.

The way I would do it in Vegas is to convert from 25p to 24p using precise frames, let elastique handle the 4% audio and then add pulldown.
The problem isn't just the conversion though, this seems to have been shot with a fast shutter speed and even native is right on the brink of being too juddery for comfort. Optical flow processing can fix this...on a good day.

Bob.

Dell, HP and Lenovo all make workstation computers that are powerful and quiet.

I don't know about HP and Lenovo, but Dells are a piece of junk in my experience. I had two, one from 2000 that had a Promise ATA 100 PCI card that corrupted files, and another from 2004 that was the worst computer I ever had. The case was so flimsy that as soon as I did something CPU intensive and the fans speeded up, it would start rattling so much that I couldn't focus on what I was doing. I could hear it even if I was watching TV. By opening the case I could tell that Dells are made to be more convenient to Dell than to their customers, because you can tell that everything inside is assembled in a flimsy way to make the assembly really fast, which in turns makes the build quality a total piece of crap. And this was a model from the second most expensive line, which in 2004 I paid $1200 for. I would never buy a Dell again and I t recommend everybody not to buy one. To me the great advantage about owning a PC over a Mac is that you can assemble your own PC purchasing the best components you can for your budget. If you have a thousand dollars you will get a very decent PC assembled by yourself, and one that is very inferior if you buy from a brand name.

Dell makes well-designed workstations

Here's what digitalvideoediting.com said about the Precision 390 a couple years ago. The current Precisions use pretty much the same cases.

Dell has outdone itself with the quietest workstation ever to grace these parts. Dell has always been the most proficient computer manufacturer at keeping its workstations silent, but with this more-efficient Core 2 Extreme processor, Dell has been able to outdo itself -- hardly any fan noise can be heard at all. There were numerous occasions where I was wondering if the machine was still running, with the only indication being its backlit power button on the front. There's a real-time thermal sensor inside that Dell says improves the machine's idle acoustics by 20%. One thing's for sure -- it works. Quiet machines are a must here at the Midwest Test Facility, and this Precision Workstation 390 wins our "church mouse" prize once again. Bravo, Dell.

Here's a recent review from a CAD magazine of the current t3500
In summary, the Precision T3500 might not be the most stylish of workstations, but it is well built and quiet and another solid machine from Dell.

What matters to me more than any magazine or website review is my own experience with a product. Since I had two Dells and they were a piece of junk, I won't buy a Dell anymore, period. Besides, as a company it absolutely disgusts me because of the way they rip people off. They advertise these monthly payments as low as $44 and when you start paying them, less than $10 of those $44 go towards the balance, the rest goes towards interest and "financing fees". In conclusion, to me Dells are junk and even if they were not, I wouldn't give my money to them because of the kind of company they are.

Over the years I've used Gateway, IBM, HP, Lenovo, e-Machine, Dell, home builts, and probably others I'm not remembering. I currently do video editing on a Dell i7 xps studio. I use a six year old Dell xps p4 for my Windows Home Server, and a four year old Dell laptop for email and web.

My experience with Dells has been excellent. When I fried the motherboard on my xps p4, Dell sent a technician to my house and replaced the motherboard at no charge (under warranty). When I complained of the loud fan in my i7 they sent a technician to my houuse and replaced the fan at no charge (under warranty). Later, they issued a bios update that was the real fix for the fan problem. I've also had good luck using their online chat tech support. However, I don't like their telephone support because of the language barrier.

When I bought my i7 about nine months ago I intended to build my own. But when I priced the components I couldn't come close to what I paid for the Dell. So for me, at least, Dell has provided good service and value.

Jerry

"Yesterday I cut a simple 16 minute piece with four, count 'em, four crossfades, along with a fade in and a fade out. In FCP it took 45 minutes to cut because to do a simple crossfade you have to put the clip in the viewer and then put enough time before the In point and after the Out point to allow for the crossfade, then drop it on the timeline and go through the same thing for the next clip. Then you have to render the crossfade to look at it, and if it's not what you want, exactly, you have to do the whole thing all over again. Then I had to export it as a QT .mov file to bring it into compressor to make an mpeg 2 for the DVD. Total time: 1:41:09"

While I do agree that Vegas would be a better NLE than Final Cut if Vegas actually worked like it was supposed to without the crashing/memory problems, this explanation makes it obvious that you do not know how to use FCP.

The only thing Vegas would help you out on here is automatically crossfading clips that you add to the timeline. Other than that 30 second savings of time there would be no difference in the edit time. You don't need to go to the viewer unless you want to. You don't have to do the whole thing over unless you want to - just use your trimming tools to modify the ins and outs. You don't need to render to see anything that you've done in the timeline including effects/transitions. The RT unlimited option provides you the same previews that Vegas does without any rendering (just drops the playback rate / quality). This whole example just makes no sense at all. You should have rendered out a QT reference file instead which takes about 3 seconds (as long as you set your sequence settings to be the same as your clips, and then render it in Compressor (which should take the same amount of time as Vegas does to render an MPEG-2). Or you could have gone right into DVDSP and let that handle the transcode for you.

I know and use both Vegas and FCP so I really don't care who likes what more - to each their own - but to say this example is accurate is absurd.

I'm using a Mac Pro (8 core) running Boot Camp, Windows XP, and Vegas 9.0...
Very stable, very snappy. Having the best of both worlds is great. I'm able to to run FCP, Pro Tools, Logic, and most importantly, Vegas. Those of you with "glitches" on your Windows side, may want to take another look. The biggest problem with Boot Camp and Win XP is that it only allow the OS to see a very smaller portion of your ram. Anywhere from 1.5 to 2 GB's. No more. So when you have 16 GB's and you can't access it all it becomes a bit frustrating. Only complaint, and I know it can be addressed by upgrading to Win 7 64 bit.

I completely agree that Vegas rules the roost as I've been using it since the first audio incarnation. Why use anything else that takes you hours to complete simple tasks?

Go Vegas... Go Vegas on a Mac

As far as the Dell complaints go...while I wouldn't go out of my way to recommend them I have to agree on the good service and good builds. But...

You should buy from the small business side, not the home PC side. The business divisions generally try to have better builds and better support.

We've had a few servers from Dell and HP over the last decade and there was a point in that timeframe when they both underwent a design sea change. The servers (at least those we bought) went from mind-numbingly loud to whisper quiet. In fact, I sit next to a Dell server every day and don't notice it over the general office noise.

As far as support goes, we've got support contracts and HP and Dell both send techs out the next morning, with morning parts delivery too.

The thing about any of these systems, though, is that they sell them as a complete unit. So they're not very helpful if you change the PC from what they sold you.

This is not to say that you should now run out and buy a Dell. If they lost you as a customer that's perfectly fine. There's lots of fish in Dell's ocean and lot's of fishermen in your sea. You're free to choose from a lot of hooks.

Rob Mack

Silverglove,
I agree with you and have found that owning a Mac Pro is the way to go and the best of both worlds. I'm running Windows 7 and the 64-bit Vegas Pro on a separate drive in one of the 4 drive bays and I've never been as happy with a PC as this. An Intel Mac Pro is a bargain because it's a Mac and PC. When I need to use Final Cut, I boot it up into Leopard. When I want to use Vegas, I boot into Windows 7. The thing is built like a tank and is incredibly fast. I have also found that Vegas has no problems working with the ProRes files I render on the Mac and open on an internal shared drive using MacDrive from MediaFour.

Jeez, I just realized I sound like an advertisement. It's just really nice being so happy with both Vegas and Final Cut - on one machine.

My office standardized on Dell for user workstations, but only for one single feature: the price. No other name brand even comes close in pricing. However, there are two factors that make this attractive. Without these two factors the price would be meaningless.

1 - We consider them disposable. We don't upgrade or repair them. If they stop working they get tossed and we buy a new one. It's cheaper than the parts and labor needed to make them run again.

2 - With the work we do here, a person's workstation tends to be little more than a screen and keyboard. We do almost all our work on remote servers. The few people who actually need to do some sort of real processing at their desk usually get a custom built vanilla box instead of the general issue Dell.

For myself, i'd never get one because these factors don't apply to me personally. Heck, i bring my laptop in to work with me for the cases where i need to run something other than a terminal emulator or web browser.

Here we go again... it's just a name! The Beatles was a stupid name, too.

So was MC900FootJesus.

So, what I seem to be getting here is I should have W7, 32 and 64 on the machine... which someone now says is possible to do with my Mac, since it is operating under Snow Leopard. Is that about right? I was under the impression that Bootcamp only supported XP. Since I have XP running under Bootcamp now, would it be a major PITA to install W7 on the Mac and try 64 bit before I buy any new gear again?

Why would I need both? Seems like if there are that many issues, I'd be best off sticking with 8.0(c) or going with 8.1 for 64 bit.

Thank you all for the great input and for sticking with me on this.

Charles

Charles,
it appears that we're all part of the Sony Vegas family... and like real families, we have those we consider brothers and those whom we would like to consider distant cousins ... not that we don't like them, but that we just like them better when they're far away. . . lol

Welcome home, brother. . . modern high technology is such wonderfully unpredictable endeavor, isn't it? (grin)

Until that time... Earl J.

Thanks, Earl.

Maybe I should just stick with the original idea of this post and get a PC to run Vegas. I can testify Sony doesn't like Macs very much. When I got my EX3 I tried to submit the rebate claim and I couldn't get it to work despite numerous tries. I finally called, but was told they couldn't take rebate claims over the phone... I had to do it online. When I explained to the woman it wasn't working and that was why I called, she curtly replied: "Sir, I just accessed the site and it's working fine." I tried again while she was on the phone with me. No go. She suggested I try another computer. So I tried my son's laptop... a PC. The claim went right through. Again, a couple of weeks ago a kid bumped into the shotgun mic on the EX3 and the mic mount broke. I went to the Sony parts page to order a new one. Couldn't get it to work. Remembering the experience I had with the rebate, I tried my son's laptop. The order went through flawlessly.

Sony doesn't like Apples. It's a fact.

"Sony doesn't like Apples. It's a fact."

All the more reason to like Sony.

Safari or Firefox browser Charles???

Safari is worthless and with Google Chrome and Firefox both available, Safari should die off quickly from my perspective as a website designer.

Make sure you go with 8GB RAM minimum if going 64bit - I'm awaiting my 8GB memory upgrade to be delivered tomorrow from NewEgg to deal with the performance issues I've been having with Vegas Pro lately.

Now if I could just get the latest Cineform Neo Scene to work...

Cliff Etzel
Videographer : Producer : Web Designer
bluprojekt
--------
Desktop: OS: Win7 x64 | CPU: Q6600 | Mobo: Intel DG33TL | 8GB G.Skill Dual Channel RAM | Boot/Apps Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Audio Drive: Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | Video Drive: WD 640 7200RPM Black Series | Vid Card: nVidia GT7200LE

Laptop: Dell Latitude D620 | C2D 2.0Ghz | 4GB G.Skill RAM | OS: Win7 x64 | Primary HD: WD 320GB 7200RPM | Video HD: WD 250GB 7200RPM