farss wrote on 5/12/2012, 8:39 PM
Personally I'd rate the difficulty in doing crossfades as a possible positive. I wouldn't be surprised if there were editors who have never used one and for good reasons.

Laurence wrote on 5/13/2012, 2:24 AM
Explain Bob.
Grazie wrote on 5/13/2012, 2:50 AM
I'm listening too Bob.


ushere wrote on 5/13/2012, 3:51 AM
just passing thoughts:

a. too easy to create one by mistake.

b. you really should think if you really do need that dissolve in the first place ;-)

c. makes you lazy.
deusx wrote on 5/13/2012, 3:59 AM
Fair enough, but applying this same logic ( about Vegas' crossfades ) you could say the same thing about one of Premiere's main features mantioned here.

Premiere now notifies you when you drop a clip that doesn't match the sequence. Well, like I said using the same logic I'd say people who don't know what resolution clips they are using have no business editing video therefore instead of a warning a monitor blowing up in one's face would be a much better feature. Each time one less editor who can't keep track of something they really should know without any assistance from their NLE.
Grazie wrote on 5/13/2012, 4:07 AM
I agree with all that you say Leslie. And execute the same protocols to X-Fades. And maybe, Laurence does too?

Leslie, is that what Bob was implying? Nothing more than that? Nothing Technical?


farss wrote on 5/13/2012, 4:35 AM
Nothing technical.
Ushere summed it up perfectly in points b) and c).

Not that I haven't used them, the first time I remember marking long crosses on our A and B roll workprint with a Chinagraph pencil, we could only afford one dissolve, back then they cost money.

Of course there's times when I'm editing events and a cut just doesn't work but generally I find a fade to black works better. For narrative drama though, it really should just cut.


MUTTLEY wrote on 5/13/2012, 11:52 AM

TLF, the irony of your post is laughable. "FFS Ray, get over yourself. We've heard all this from you time and time again. It's tedious, and excruciatingly boring. You just can't post without belittling others, can you?" You mean like the same handful of users making the same complaints over and over and over again? So they have that right to be redundant and I don't have the right rto return in kind regardless if I also find their posts "tedious, and excruciatingly boring?"

And yes, I have indeed "posted about it in virtually every thread that criticises Vegas." (by the way it's "criticizes" not "criticises" ) But in pointing that out Sir, you are also inadvertently validating where people are senselessly criticizing the fact that I don't post in threads about legitimate problems in Vegas, unless of course it's to validate an issue or have an opportunity to help in some way, shape, form, or fashion.

Since you seem familiar with my other posts perhaps you read this one "I have always been candid about the problems that I have had. This will be probably the 100th time I've said this but I feel the need to say it again, I have no issue at all with people reporting or talking about problems that they may encounter, it's in my best interest as a dedicated user for problems & bugs to be discussed. It's in that spirit that I have also shared mine. Please know that I am nothing but empathetic but that doesn't mean that those who are behaving in the manner that I was talking about before should have a free pass to bash Sony at every turn, often in completely unrelated threads. And those who claim to no longer use Vegas coming here and going on about how much better this that or the other thing is is just silly. Like calling your old girlfriend to tell her how awesome your new girlfriend is. On these forums I've seen people ask about using Vegas being told they shouldn't. I'm sorry but talking people out of buying Vegas is just ridiculous. It's simple enough to tell someone to get the trial and see if it works well on their system before buying. I'm confidant that the few more vitriolic posters have cost Sony business, that serves no one. Less money to Sony means less product development, its cutting off your nose to spite your face. And as has been stated by others there are a good number of people who are running the latest versions of Vegas without incident. I'm thankful to be one of them."

That said, I must go toddle off somewhere.

- Ray
Underground Planet
Leee wrote on 5/13/2012, 2:04 PM
Criticise is the correct spelling if you come from the other side of the pond.
Like colour=color, organise=organize, but I guess you didn't realise that?

"I'm confidant that the few more vitriolic posters have cost Sony business, that serves no one."

I'm sure Sony did that all by themselves by releasing a bug infested piece of code. Did you ever think if Vegas 11 wasn't such a disaster none of those vitriolic posts would have been made in the first place?
MUTTLEY wrote on 5/13/2012, 3:37 PM

If you want to take me out of context that's fine but that wasn't what I was speaking to. I was specifically saying that posting on the Sony forums to newer members that they shouldn't even try the free trial version is above and beyond what I think should be acceptable, not to mention an irresponsible piece of bad advice since there are a good amount of members here that are running 11 fine and dandy. And your claim that V11 is "a bug infested piece of code" and a "disaster" is just hyperbole. There are issues sure, and I have no problems with bugs being posted or discussed, nor do I have a problem with someone asking others if something they've found is a bug or a user side issue.

Just about every piece of software I've ever owned at one point or another had some glitches or required some workarounds, to act like Sony is somehow especially egregious in this area and deserves to be flat out sabotaged on their own forums is just ridiculous.

- Ray
Underground Planet
MUTTLEY wrote on 5/13/2012, 5:05 PM
um, yea, okay dude, you win or sumthin ... ya sure told me.

- Ray
Underground Planet
Leee wrote on 5/13/2012, 8:51 PM
Yeah, I checked out the website too, and I wasn't going to say anything about the spelling errors, but they do make a statement contrary to the professionalism that is trying to be presented.

Anyway, back on subject. I agree that newcomers shouldn't be persuaded not to at least try out Vegas, because there are those among us that it works perfectly for. But at least for those of us that do have problems with crashing and such, and since Sony hasn't fixed the problems in all the time that Vegas 11 has been released, we were able to put our collective heads together and come up with some pretty good workarounds. And if one of those workarounds happens to be another company's product, then so be it.
Laurence wrote on 5/13/2012, 10:11 PM
Here is what is so frustrating to me. I really don't care about v11's new features. Some of the things that were introduced in V10 however are very important to me: things like the better handling of DSLR footage and the effects approaches that make some of the features in Boris FX possible are really important to me.

So v9 is missing these so I need to use V10 at least. Now when V10 was released it was just horrible for crashing and instability. Slowly and incrementally, the worst of these problems were fixed. It got to the point where it didn't crash anymore, but there were still problems with black frames, replaced footage, and markers not being saved in mp4 containers. I stopped using Cineform, pre-rendered raw footage into larger chunks, lived with the other frustrations, but fully expected these problems to eventually be resolved. Then V11 was released and it was back to square 1. There was an announcement that the remaining bugs in V10 were not going to be fixed. The remaining bugs in V10: black frames, randomly replaced footage, marker problems in some render formats...every one of these is still there In V11. There is new GPU acceleration that seems to add very little to an i7 system, and it is back to square one stability-wise.

I haven't had a stable bug free experience in Vegas since V10 was released, and it looks very much like that trend might continue into V12 and beyond. I am so freakin' angry at this point. If I didn't love this software so much I would have left a year ago.

Want an analogy Ray? It's not a bitter girlfriend syndrome. It's more like a "wonderful wife who's become an addict and can't be lived with anymore but I'm still trying" syndrome.

Like many here, this is the way I make my living and a good half of what should be my billable hours are spent fighting crashes and cobbling together workarounds.
ushere wrote on 5/13/2012, 10:34 PM
+ 1 laurence

especially - I make my living and a good half of what should be my billable hours are spent fighting crashes and cobbling together workarounds

MUTTLEY wrote on 5/14/2012, 12:29 AM

It's a shame you miss the point of my posts, truly it is and it disappoints me that you just don't get it. You keep pretending like your posts aren't inflammatory and I'm the one with the problem. Except, well I've used all versions of Vegas including this one and its working fine. I suppose one of us is either smarter or luckier than the other. Perhaps even both.

As for misspelling on my site, I looked, didn't find nothing, and if you look at my site you'll tell its much more about the work then the words. Dont think a typo is going to stop me from gaining a client. Actually shooting a Grammy winner Wednesday and can't wait.

So where are these typos of which you speak, cuz I went through with a fine tooth and saw nothing.

- Ray
Underground Planet
Leee wrote on 5/14/2012, 12:37 AM
"It's a shame you miss the point of my posts, truly it is and it disappoints me that you just don't get it. You keep pretending like your posts aren't inflammatory and I'm the one with the problem. Except, well I've used all versions of Vegas including this one and its working fine. I suppose one of us is either smarter or luckier than the other. Perhaps even both.

OMFG! Okay he's all yours guys, I am not going to waste any more time or energy on this absurdity, hypocrisy, elitism, and self-absorption. Good luck!
Laurence wrote on 5/14/2012, 7:36 AM
I just want to mention here that I love Rays work, and he may well be the most talented of any of us. I am also very envious of his good fortune with V11 and would love to be able to replicate it.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/14/2012, 9:11 AM

"... I love Rays work..."


DavidMcKnight wrote on 5/14/2012, 9:56 AM
Ray's work is awesome, SCS uses it to showcase what can be done with Vegas. I can promise you, a typo here and there will not cost him a client.
JeffyB wrote on 5/14/2012, 10:50 AM
To be honest we use the two lavalier for two reasons.

The first is as you mentioned, to still have normal sounding vocals when they are turning their head (which happens a lot while playing guitar), and the second is just to have a backup piece of audio for when they bump/hit the lapel mic. With the way we shoot we need backup of everything :) We also use some sure SM57's for ambient/guitar audio, and an eleven rack for all processing of electric guitars.

Thanks for the kind words!
MUTTLEY wrote on 5/14/2012, 11:30 AM

Thanks folks, I do appreciate the kind words and trust me if I had a magic wand and could get Vegas working for you as it is for me I'd gladly wave it. I'm as tired of the in-fighting as the next person. Though it may be hard to believe I have nothing personal against anyone here, I don't have a list of people who have said something that bothers me (though I don't doubt my name might be on a few other peoples list!) and I most likely couldn't recall one name that I've had semi-heated words with over the last so-many months. I literally have built a career with Sony Vegas, learning from scratch and advice from these forums since picking up a bootleg version 10+ years ago. My affection for Vegas is no secret. Even though I am passionate I have been candid about problems that I've had as they occurred, I don't mind being pragmatic in pointing out problems and comparing notes in search of a solution. Given time over the years I've seen the majority of them addressed and fixed and fade from memory (though the replace footage one still lingers, though I haven't had it with V11 that was an especially big green bugger!) I've even seen my favorite plug-in, Magic Bullet, go away and come back again!

My only wish for the forums would be to keep the problems confined to the posts that deal with that specific issue, or even start a "Known Bugs" thread and put them all in there, not just poo-poo on other threads that may or may not be semi-almost-pseudo related. This thread bothered me not because of the obvious as some might think, for those who have been around awhile, posting about another NLE is par for the course. It was more the perceived motive based due to his recent posts in other threads that made this one feel like a slap in the face and to which I reacted to. Not claiming I was right in doing so, only giving the back story for those who might care to know.

As I've said many many times in the past that these forums are where I got my start, I would not be doing what I'm doing if it wasn't for the helpful advice and comradery that I felt here in the early days. To me I think of someone who has just gotten Vegas coming here and seeing all the negative comments smattered about the various threads that, by and large, are from a small contingency of customers, and feel it's important that they know there are users that are running Vegas without incident.

My two cents but do know when I say there are no hard feelings there truly aren't, at least on my side.

- Ray
Underground Planet
[r]Evolution wrote on 5/14/2012, 11:32 AM
Produce QUALITY work and no one will care what it was shot or edited on. They won't even care by whom.

Good or Bad: They'll remember you.
Good: They'll come back.
Bad: They're gone for good.

Now, the decision of Good &/or Bad is theirs to make.
Either way, I bet they truly don't care what you used as long as the Perceived ROI is High.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/14/2012, 11:36 AM

'... when I say there are no hard feelings there truly aren't, at least on my side."

Nor from mine, Ray.

Steve Mann wrote on 5/14/2012, 10:40 PM
Ray, I don't even get into these discussions any more.