"Of course, all of this is utterly irrelevant if your content sucks. No point shooting on a high-end format like 4k and raw if your content is below par. It is not going to make it any better just because it’s raw and 4k."

I guess that just about sums up my efforts...

to videoITguy - You have a very pessimistic view of the economy. Sure over the last few years there has been a big dip, but is this hugely different to other dips big or small in the past? You seem to suggest that this current dip in the economy will continue due to the factors listed for the next several decades. Must say although I am no economist, I simply can't see this happening. Whether the pick up is in the next 2, 3, 5, 7 years it will happen. Whether the timing of 4K is unfortunate in these current times of less excess may make it not as successful, I don't know, but people need new TVs and new cameras when theirs break. Just as now with HD, you simply can't buy a SD camera or SD TV. Early adopters may change their gear before things break or they need to, but it soon filters to the rest.

4K who needs it? what good is it? I can only imagine you posed this sort of question in the very early days of HD. In all reality no one needs it. I can get moving pictures on a VHS player and 14" CRT set

Who can afford it? I guess you are talking about the masses.... at the moment, for a full workflow from recording, editing to watching, not that many. But prices are dropping fast. Very fast.

If you haven't worked with 4K then you dont know what it is and where the benefits are. I cant wait to get my hands on the next version of an AX100 that will shoot 4K at 60p. But even at 30p and 4:2:0, the amount of color grading that is popssible is just amazing. Yes, it isn't suitable for fast motion content but I sure enjoy all my nature videos.

+ 1 pilsburypie, OldSmoke

Inspiring words!

VMP

@ VMP

"Inspiring words!"

Inspiring words will not pay off my credit for the 2k stuff.

I really have no choice but to wait.

If I were running a business, I would approach this whole thing quite differently because then the clients are the ones who are actually paying for this stuff.

So I think it depends on if one is doing this for a living or if it is just a very expensive hobby.

For me, it is a very, very expensive hobby!

If it were not for my annoying disabilities, I would indeed make it a business!

To those who want it and can afford it, enjoy your 4k! I will eventually catch-up with you and then immediately fall behind again when 6k, 8k or whatever 'k' comes out. LOL!

They say this will not make you better videographers but then the best carpenters have best tools to work with. Even then one needs to know their tools and how to use them. So 4k is worthless to those who do not know how to use it properly and fail to learn how.

[I]So 4k is worthless to those who do not know how to use it properly and fail to learn how.[/I]

I fully agree. And yes, it doesn't make you a better videographer. Bad video may even look worse in 4K.

But how does one learn? In my opinion by experimenting.

Indeed VidMus,

I agree with what you are saying.
New tools are usually difficult to afford due to high production cost when they are just released.

And yes all tools must be used wisely.

I can tell great stories just by well.. telling stories :-D.
Without any camera at all.

But advanced tools can enhance ones production workflow and the final result.

3 things that I think 4K would help me with is:
- When working in HD/2k The ability to crop for FX, and zoom in into interviews (avoid a second close up camera).
- Better, more detailed large projection, I project my features on large screens.
- I always want to capture whatever I capture, at the best quality and resolution possible.
For example there are so many old photos taken by my first generation Dig cam that I now wish had better resolution.
Not to forget my old video 8 tapes.

Finally, all we are talking about is larger resolution here.
Enlarging images.
I have never thought of this resolution boost to make any content better, why should that subject even come up?
Just image scaling, larger print with better detail in short (in most case).

The possibility of film actually, as far as I know film has 8K or more comparable resolution.

VMP

"So 4k is worthless to those who do not know how to use it properly and fail to learn how."

I totally disagree! Are we talking about someone trying to make a film/short professionally or just a keen hobbyist? Sure if you are a pro making crap films, having them in 4K is now going to be 4K crap, but I am a keen hobbyist. I video my family outings, kids, trips to the park, holidays. I bet if any of you watched it you would have little or no interest in the content. As an amateur I attempt all the ideas to make a good movie, but it is soley for me and immediate family. The amount of enjoyment I got from moving from SD to HD was incredible. I can imagine with a spanking 60" 4K set and the family holiday blasting out in 4K will raise a little more than a smile in my obsession with PQ!

Sure I always try and develop my videography, that's why I frequent forums looking for advice but if you compare a pro outfit who know how to "use it properly" and little old me in my spare room editing kids riding a bike, there is no comparison. Still worthwhile to me and I'm sure millions of others out there. Not necessary mind you, but better......

"Are we talking about someone trying to make a film/short professionally or just a keen hobbyist?"

Both, and I am a very keen hobbyist.

Now that 4K is in consumer point and shoot cameras, it doesn't matter if anyone knows or learns anything. Anyone can point and shoot and get decent 4K, half decent, or amazing 4k... just like HD, just like SD, just like VHS, just like home 8mm.... doesn't matter what anyone THINKS about for 4k... it's here, and there it is.

[I]doesn't matter what anyone THINKS about for 4k... it's here, and there it is[/I]

I like that statement!

"Now that 4K is in consumer point and shoot cameras, it doesn't matter if anyone knows or learns anything. Anyone can point and shoot and get decent 4K, half decent, or amazing 4k... just like HD, just like SD, just like VHS, just like home 8mm.... doesn't matter what anyone THINKS about for 4k... it's here, and there it is."

And that is why there are so many AWFUL videos!!!

Pros? We don't need no stinking Pros, when we have all those consumers with their little cameras going around and shooting C-R-A-P-!-!-!

@ OldSmoke

Who then needs to hire you to shoot the sports videos when they can use their consumer 4k cameras and get it themselves?

Forget about proper exposure, forget about proper framing, forget about proper white balance, forget about a shot that does NOT make one nauseated from all of the shakiness, etc, etc and etc!

P.S.

Who then needs Sony Vegas Pro when all one needs is the consumer versions to slap all of the garbage videos together?

There are a million awful videos because YOUTUBE exists.
We're not seeing consumer grade videos in theaters or HBO etc...
well, except for those "found footage" films --but, there again, if that is what the peoples embrace, how can we stop it?

I remember going to the theater to see BLAIRE WITCH PROJECT, and although I enjoyed it as it was, I remember walking out thinking, "Well, now that is done, there will be a couple copy cats, but that will be the end of crappy footage as legit movies." I was wrong. I underestimated the lowest common expectations of the viewing audience: cat videos and people falling down.

I don't have an answer and admit I occasionally enjoy a fun cat video (I like cats), and understand the freak-show voyeurism of watching the "fails" or b00b-tagged videos... but, what can ya do? Change all of human nature? I'm saddened by the de-evolution of talent in entertainment, but am not worried about the fact that I can't change everyone else.

i think one of the greatest inventions of all time was the OFF switch ;-)

[I] think one of the greatest inventions of all time was the OFF switch ;-)[/I]

Especially the one on my hand phone! :-)

[I]Who then needs to hire you to shoot the sports videos when they can use their consumer 4k cameras and get it themselves?[/I]

So do you think we should all get worried about that? It happens anyway, fortunately many of those here are not paddling in that pool of mediocrity.

@ GeeBax


Yes, it happens anyway, BUT does that justify one saying that they do not need to learn anything? I do not think so!

The reason why "...many of those here are not paddling in that pool of mediocrity.", is because they learned!

I thought everyone on here was learning stuff?? Did I miss a memo? :D or maybe a post?

Any thoughts on the new (not yet released) Sony Action Cam 4k? Worth it? If so, what settings would you use?

http://www.sony.net/Products/actioncam/en-us/products/cameras/FDR-X1000V/index.html?contentsTop=1

I will let someone else buy one and evaluate it, I bought the previous model and was immensely disappointed with it. The picture quality was very poor, and I was only able to get back about half of what I spent on it when selling it on eBay.