Yeah i moved away from paper labels about 6 months ago. A lot of my original VCDs and Cd-rom that i created 4 years ago started to peel or come off. Some would bubble or start to come off at the edges. At the time i researched what the best labels were and then used them on all my disks. Sadly i agree that any type of humidity or heat is going to loosen the adhesive down the line. Dvds are probably the same way.

Ive heard nothing but good things about Epson Printers and the ink cartridges they use in creating DVD Artwork. I might look into one of those if i were you.

Have a Happy Holiday.

Avery Permanent labels will NOT come off.

John

I've just ordered an Epson 900 printer from the US seeing as how Epson here don't think it worthwhile selling it. From a cost point of view its going to cost a little more to print straight onto the media as the inkjet pritable media is a little more expensive and then there's the cost of the ink.

Now that I'm making more DVDs and I'm not going to risk putting sticky labels on them this seemed the best way to go.

I'll let you know how this printer works out, if anyone else in Australia is interested I can probably arrange to import a number of them. From what I can deduce this is a 120V only model so I'll have to arrange for a step down transformer as well. Still the only other option is a model that Epson does sell here at $1,800. The price is not the only put off, its an A3 printer so takes up more room.

Apart from that I've used stickies on hundreds of VCDs with no complaints.

I have created hundreds of DVDs with press-on labels. I am careful and use a 'rolling pin' to insure the labels are in complete contact without bubbles. All have been perfect (oldest ones are 2 years old).

As an experiment recently I intentionally unbalanced a DVD with a single 1"x2" label. It played fine, so I added a second label over the first. Still played fine. I concluded balance is not as important as I first assumed.

I print with an Epson C80, and the results are great--this printer uses pigment inks, and they are UV-resistant and smear-proof.

BTW I am typing this on a terminal in a hotel in Saltzburg, Austria (normal base is in Oregon). I never knew International keyboards didn't have an 'at' symbol in the usual place. Hunt-and-peck typing is a pain.

I had the balance problem when I first started making DVDs. The Sure THinng CD Stomper labels must be too thick or the glue shrinks too much. Don't know but we did make too many coasters out of otherwise sound DVDs. The solution was AVERY 8692 labels. However, now that volumes are so high and time so limited we picked up a Microboard Print Factory with a 50 disc magazine and HP print engine. For us it was the only practical solution. We use Taiyo Something CDRs and Verbatim 2X DVDs. Same with duplication: unit has 4 100 disc magazines, 4 Pioneer A05s and runs off a very basic 2.2 Ghz PC via 1394. USB and Serial port.

Avery 8692 is one of the packages which contain the Avery "Permanent" labels which I described above. There are others as well.

John

I think what we are talkng here is not 2 or 3 years longevity but 15 and
30 years. Give me a heat gun and I can remove any label. Why take a chance?

JJK

FWIW, Hadn't specifically heard about balance prob. with DVD's, but as it can occur with CDs, sort of a *why not* issue I guess... The actual prob. with CDs at least, was/is more the delicacy of certain drive mechanisms - one's I heard about were on some apple imacs I think as well as a few laptops. Regardless labels or direct printing, a whole lot of ink just on 1/4 - 1/2 of the disc, causes the disc to behave in a fashion similar to an out of balance tire on your car - if one place along the circumference is heavier, it'll cause a wobble during rotation.

Whether one uses labels or prints directly, can't see how that would make a huge difference as the label itself should uniformly add weight. One caveat I would advise looking into with anything Epson -> few years back they had a LOT of prob with some of their inks reacting with ozone (& other air polution?) causing everything to turn an orange tint. Don't know if they've fixed it or not, but seem to recall some warnings on their product literature somewhat recently.

As far as labels go themselves, lower quality labels can have prob.: thinner labels can stretch, causing bubble prob. from the start, and saturation with ink from an ink jet printer can deform some labels, much like getting an ordinary piece of paper wet. Adhesives today can be quite permanent [though at times it seems the main use for permanent adhesives is the labels manufacturers stick on your new equipment] - contact type adhesives are used throughout most cars for example, and live in the harshest environments for years.

Thanks to everyone that replied to my original query. I can see pros and cons on both sides of the issue.

Not that your input wasn't helpful, but I guess i'm back to square one. Perhaps I was hoping there would be a definitive answer out there (and there isn't).

LMAO:
"I think what we are talkng here is not 2 or 3 years longevity but 15 and
30 years. Give me a heat gun and I can remove any label. Why take a chance?"

Give me a knife and I can scratch off ANY label (printed or glued) from dvd and anything else. Why take a chance?
That was lame argument
huh

No absolutes here, that's right. I use labels on DVD's and haven't had a problem out of about 100 or so copies so far. But I'm looking at a CD/DVD printer in the near future. I saw one printed at a friend's studio and was really impressed with the look. Much better looking than labels.

The fact is, no matter what brand of paper labels you use on DVD's, even if they are branaded as "permanent", "no wobble" etc.. can and eventually will cause problems with your Cd's and more commonly DVD's. If you want proof, just talk to any of the companies that produce these labels and ask them if they would be willing to pay for any damage caused to CD/DVD players due to using their labeling products. I'd bet that not a single one would reimburse you when you label starts to peel off in a DVD player and ruins your disc and the player. With the cheap cost of CD inkjet printers and inkjet printable media these days there is really no reason that anyone should still be using paper labels. You can get a printer for around $150-$200, and the media can be found for around $0.80 - $1.50 for DVD's and $0.20-$0.30 for cd's.

The "logical" thing to do would be to creat a "master" DVD, marked with a CD safe pen, that you keep put up and never use. Then have a copy with a label that you use to play. If/when it starts peeling, pull out the master and make another copy to use.

Steve

Yeah, but what if and when it starts peeling it is inside your DVD player or DVD ROM drive (where it is most likely to happen), then you not only lose your DVD but most likely you will have to go and buy a new DVD player or DVD-ROM drive. Then you have to figure in the fact that you have to now use 2 cd's or dvd's and probably more when the labels come off. And also you now have to store twice as much, you need a master library and a library for your copies. Logical?? Don't think so.

The main reason that labels come off on DVD's is that a DVD player spins faster than a CD player does, and also the laser for the DVD player runs hotter than a CD player, if you add those 2 things up that is the reason that most DVD labels come off. Heat and label glue don't mix very well. When most people need to take a label off of something the first thing they reach for is a heat gun.

Normally you'll have 2 copies anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue. I also doubt that the label will just suddenly come off in a drive. It will most likely start peeling at the edge and you will catch it before it causes damage; however, it could ruin a player I suppose if you were unlucky enough.

FWIW, I wish I'd seen the printers that print on both DVDs and regular paper before I got my current printer...I would have gone for it instead of a paper only printer.

I stuck a DVD with an Avery permanent label in an oven to test this nonsense and it DIDN'T peel off. None of my customers own DVD players made by Jenn-Air so I am assuming the lasers in their DVD players run cooler.

Now if the argument is about appearance, I'll agree. The printed labels look better than the labels. However, I am fussy about the media I buy so statements such as this:
"...and the media can be found for around $0.80 - $1.50 for DVD's and $0.20-$0.30 for cd's.".........give me pause since the non-printable media I buy costs more than $1.50.
What is the sense of giving a customer an attractive looking DVD which won't play in every player? The Avery permanent labels aren't the cheapest labels available either.



John

If you take normal precautions the label should stay on. That means if you're using a ink jet type printer LEAVE THE LABEL DRY! Not just for a few minutes, at least overnight BEFORE you try to apply it to the disc. Then use one of the type of applicators that requires some pressure to apply, like the spring loaded types.

Have I ever had a label come off? No. Once I tried to get one off (wrong label) and boy what that fun to s l o w l y peel it off in one piece.

I've always let my labels dry overnight prior to application and did use one of the spring-loaded type applicators (CD Stomper). Although the CD's I kept in the house have remained largely problem-free, those in the car peeled off in a matter of days, in one case, jamming the mech.

I know you said "normal precautions" and the environment in a car is hostile, but then, once a DVD leaves my possession, I have no control over it's treatment. For that reason, I haven't labelled any DVD's.

Andy

My new Sony DVD player's manual includes these warnings:

"Do not use a disc that has a commercially available accessory attached, such as a label or ring."

"This system cannot play....a disc with paper or stickers on it."

Brandon's Dad

[My new Sony DVD player's manual includes these warnings:

"Do not use a disc that has a commercially available accessory attached, such as a label or ring."

"This system cannot play....a disc with paper or stickers on it."]
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Given the nature of Sony warranties these days I would expect such a disclaimer on their part.

I checked the past posts of the other poster (pb) who uses Avery permanent labels and I found this very interesting post regarding these labels. I hope he doesn't mind that I am linking it here:

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/Forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=22&MessageID=168321

Sounds like it went way beyong my oven test and STILL didn't come off.

John

John, since we're OT anyway ... ;)

That reminds me of the time i got our company to save some money by not taping the address labels to the shipping cartons anymore. The president of the company told the packaging department that the tape was neccessary to keep the label dry and from falling off. However, it had a few problems. It cost money for the tape and cost more for the time it took to apply the tape. Several of the shipping companies also complained that the glossy surface of the tape made it difficult for their OCR scanners to read the labels.

As a demonstration, i stuck a bare printed label on a box, filled it with about 150 pounds of scrap metal, sprayed the box and label with water, flipped the box over so that the label side was face down on the concrete shipping dock, and spent ten minutes shoving the box around on the floor. Then we flipped the box back over and the label was not only still attached, but still readable too. No more tape was used after that.

I wonder if that label company also makes CD/DVD labels?