Story about him...his new movie is most likely filled with lies.
OT: FWIW, Michael Moore=Liar
Back to post
Comments
baysidebas
wrote on 6/14/2004, 11:28 AM
Well, it may have aired on the BBC, but it's a production of SF Indymedia. A quick google search brought page after page of interesting links about this outfit. Here's the content of but one of them and it should help any sentient being in evaluating them as a source of hard facts.
<start clip>
Advice on Molotov Cocktails From SF Indymedia
Written by the ChronWatch Founder, Jim Sparkman
Sunday, April 06, 2003
An article in Thursday's Chronicle, written by Jaxon van Debeken, tells of the arrest of an anti-war protester for planting a Molotov cocktail during an anti-war demonstration. The arrest was based on a surveillance tape.
A San Francisco State student who faces a maximum of 10 years in prison on federal charges of possessing a Molotov cocktail was arrested after police recognized him as a protester they had booked just minutes after the device was planted.
Jacob Lehman, 25, of San Francisco appeared in federal court Wednesday on charges of possessing an explosive device--a Molotov cocktail--found March 21 on Market Street between Third and Fourth Streets, a day after 1,400 protesters were arrested.
Lehman denies the charges and was released on $200,000 bond.
This apparently prompted the folks at the anti-capitalist SF Indymedia site to publish advice on this matter for their followers. After reading this, do you Mom and Pop peaceniks still feel comfortable marching arm in arm with these characters?
How NOT to torch the ass of the ruling class
by Bodzin Thursday April 03, 2003 at 10:32 AM
Next time you decide to carry a Molotov to a demo, keep an eye out for cameras.
There are many possible morals to the story below.
1. Don't take Molotov cocktails to demonstrations. You can do just as much damage with much less incriminating tools.
2. If you take a Molotov to the demo, don't take it out of your bag and leave it laying around RIGHT IN FRONT OF A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA.
3. If you are going to carry a bomb, WEAR A DISGUISE.
4. Or best of all--stick with nonviolent protest. Keep your powder dry. Don't strike with force until you have a killing blow. Solo bombings have never done much for a revolution. I'm not the ''peace police,'' I just don't see why young guys always need to cast themselves as heros in the struggle, rather than doing the hard work of talking to people who disagree and constantly growing the movement. In short, once the arguments have succeeded, the ''system'' will be hollowed out to the point that it doesn't take Molotovs to destroy it.
There was a really great sign carried by a counter-protester in one of the recent disruptions: ''Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people. Why not give it another chance?'' Why not, indeed?
<end clip>
<start clip>
Advice on Molotov Cocktails From SF Indymedia
Written by the ChronWatch Founder, Jim Sparkman
Sunday, April 06, 2003
An article in Thursday's Chronicle, written by Jaxon van Debeken, tells of the arrest of an anti-war protester for planting a Molotov cocktail during an anti-war demonstration. The arrest was based on a surveillance tape.
A San Francisco State student who faces a maximum of 10 years in prison on federal charges of possessing a Molotov cocktail was arrested after police recognized him as a protester they had booked just minutes after the device was planted.
Jacob Lehman, 25, of San Francisco appeared in federal court Wednesday on charges of possessing an explosive device--a Molotov cocktail--found March 21 on Market Street between Third and Fourth Streets, a day after 1,400 protesters were arrested.
Lehman denies the charges and was released on $200,000 bond.
This apparently prompted the folks at the anti-capitalist SF Indymedia site to publish advice on this matter for their followers. After reading this, do you Mom and Pop peaceniks still feel comfortable marching arm in arm with these characters?
How NOT to torch the ass of the ruling class
by Bodzin Thursday April 03, 2003 at 10:32 AM
Next time you decide to carry a Molotov to a demo, keep an eye out for cameras.
There are many possible morals to the story below.
1. Don't take Molotov cocktails to demonstrations. You can do just as much damage with much less incriminating tools.
2. If you take a Molotov to the demo, don't take it out of your bag and leave it laying around RIGHT IN FRONT OF A SURVEILLANCE CAMERA.
3. If you are going to carry a bomb, WEAR A DISGUISE.
4. Or best of all--stick with nonviolent protest. Keep your powder dry. Don't strike with force until you have a killing blow. Solo bombings have never done much for a revolution. I'm not the ''peace police,'' I just don't see why young guys always need to cast themselves as heros in the struggle, rather than doing the hard work of talking to people who disagree and constantly growing the movement. In short, once the arguments have succeeded, the ''system'' will be hollowed out to the point that it doesn't take Molotovs to destroy it.
There was a really great sign carried by a counter-protester in one of the recent disruptions: ''Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people. Why not give it another chance?'' Why not, indeed?
<end clip>
busterkeaton
wrote on 6/14/2004, 12:01 PM
Greg Palast is the guy who made the documentary, BB, links to. I believe he made it for BBC3. As far as I know Greg Palast is not part of SF Indymedia or any other version of Indymedia. He based in London, I think. Greg Palast has his own website. You can look up his affiliations and links there. (Just to bring this full circle, he does link to Michael Moore.)
I have listened to a few minutes of this
I have read a few articles by Greg Palast, they come off much better than this documentary. Even as propaganda, this is pretty unsophisticated. How difficult is it to get Jim Hightower to say something bad about George Bush? Or to repeat "elite," "powerful" or "Eastern banking wealth" in a sinister voice.
I did like the Graham Pasons song playing under shots of the cows.
I have listened to a few minutes of this
I have read a few articles by Greg Palast, they come off much better than this documentary. Even as propaganda, this is pretty unsophisticated. How difficult is it to get Jim Hightower to say something bad about George Bush? Or to repeat "elite," "powerful" or "Eastern banking wealth" in a sinister voice.
I did like the Graham Pasons song playing under shots of the cows.
vitalforces
wrote on 6/14/2004, 12:41 PM
Greg Palast needs whistleblowers to ply his craft, that's what puts him several cuts above Moore. I like Palast, who comes from a background of investigating corporate behavior (for unions) which means poring over mountains of sleep-inducing documents, for years, and finding telltale patterns--needles in haystacks. I have no such impression of Moore, rather that he sometimes seems to substitute moxy and passion for scholarly research. And although many people find meaning in his agenda--I look at it as entertainment. Maybe there's a nugget of truth here and there, but that's true of so many things we read.
Now the relevant question: Did Moore edit with Vegas? And if so, which version? At this point may I point out that nearby the forum link below which says "Reply" there's another link that says "<<Back to Vegas - Video." Good advice for all of us.
Now the relevant question: Did Moore edit with Vegas? And if so, which version? At this point may I point out that nearby the forum link below which says "Reply" there's another link that says "<<Back to Vegas - Video." Good advice for all of us.
ghost072
wrote on 6/14/2004, 12:44 PM
Thanks Billy, I'll check it out when I get home...
RexA
wrote on 6/14/2004, 1:01 PM
I checked out BB's link and it ened too soon, not complete. A quick search gave me another link This seems better. It ended suddenly on the events of 9/11. Not sure if that was correct, but it could be.
Anyway here it is:
The Bush Family
Editorial comment:
I voted for this bozo. I'm hoping MM's film gets wide viewing so that any alternative is seen as better. (I don't like my alternative choice -- what else is new -- but I'll take it.)
Anyway here it is:
The Bush Family
Editorial comment:
I voted for this bozo. I'm hoping MM's film gets wide viewing so that any alternative is seen as better. (I don't like my alternative choice -- what else is new -- but I'll take it.)
BillyBoy
wrote on 6/14/2004, 2:06 PM
I have no opinion on Moore other to say he needs to lose some weight. But then again so do I, so who am I to judge. <wink>
As far as his new film, I'll probably see it when it comes out if for no other reason to see what all the hype is about. THEN I'll decide.
As far as the link I posted that vid runs almost a hour, but hard to watch if you don't have a broadband connection.
Many questions raised deserve answers. Especially the allegded tampering with the voter roles in Florida MONTHS before the election knocking off what other reports have said was close to 90,000 voters.
What's telling about that is the majority of those knocked off as allegeded felons proved NOT to be and many were black and thus have a long history of not voting Republican and perhaps worse still these people first found out they were kicked of the voter roles on the day they went to vote, so they couldn't. That's not my idea of democracy. It does smack of dirty politics.
More telling is the sleazy firm that was hired to purge the voting records, paid over 3 million in tax dollars to do it then in spite of having a 95% error rate rewarded afterwards with a 65 million dollar no bid contract to do more "work". They tracked down the guy that done it. He walks off on camera, refusing to be interviewed. He reported directly to the Flordia Secretary of State. Remember her?
If you watch the flim they show the actual printout of the official voting records and one of those knocked off had a date of birth of 2007 which of course is crazy, plus having the actual persons living out of state even of a different sex. That's just a small part of film. The rest is interesting too especially what Bush's ex school chums have to say about him plus what one guy claims to have seen and overheard when people from the then Gov Bush office went to the seedly little warehouse where ALL the Texas Guard records are kept and he swears much of Bush's military records ended up in a bin headed for the shreader.
As far as his new film, I'll probably see it when it comes out if for no other reason to see what all the hype is about. THEN I'll decide.
As far as the link I posted that vid runs almost a hour, but hard to watch if you don't have a broadband connection.
Many questions raised deserve answers. Especially the allegded tampering with the voter roles in Florida MONTHS before the election knocking off what other reports have said was close to 90,000 voters.
What's telling about that is the majority of those knocked off as allegeded felons proved NOT to be and many were black and thus have a long history of not voting Republican and perhaps worse still these people first found out they were kicked of the voter roles on the day they went to vote, so they couldn't. That's not my idea of democracy. It does smack of dirty politics.
More telling is the sleazy firm that was hired to purge the voting records, paid over 3 million in tax dollars to do it then in spite of having a 95% error rate rewarded afterwards with a 65 million dollar no bid contract to do more "work". They tracked down the guy that done it. He walks off on camera, refusing to be interviewed. He reported directly to the Flordia Secretary of State. Remember her?
If you watch the flim they show the actual printout of the official voting records and one of those knocked off had a date of birth of 2007 which of course is crazy, plus having the actual persons living out of state even of a different sex. That's just a small part of film. The rest is interesting too especially what Bush's ex school chums have to say about him plus what one guy claims to have seen and overheard when people from the then Gov Bush office went to the seedly little warehouse where ALL the Texas Guard records are kept and he swears much of Bush's military records ended up in a bin headed for the shreader.
filmy
wrote on 6/14/2004, 4:19 PM
Hmmm...what you are describing sounds like a documentary I saw about a month ago on TV, I believe it was a BBC production, but it was not on BBC. It was on History Channel or IFC maybe...I am not sure. But they interviewed a lot of people, had losts of C-Span footage, had the actual print outs for the Fl "felone" law, or whatever it is, and showed the screw ups. They showed how many of the people involved in the Fl voting recounts were promiosed high postions in the Bush Administration. I missed the very start of it but caught most of it - and it sounds like what you are talking about.
stormstereo
wrote on 6/14/2004, 4:30 PM
Yeah yeah, this does not belong in a Vegas forum either. But I like this thread. And I like Moore. I really dislike GW and his administration. I would like the whole world to vote for the american president since whoever is in office makes descisions that affect the planet. Right now the world has become more unsafe, more violent and less free. Thanks a lot Bush. Just my opinion, please let me have it.
I also believe in diversity. All opinions (or agendas) must be allowed to be heard, read or seen equally in all media. Yes, Bush's to of course.
Another downloadable documentary out there is the one hour "Spin" by Brian Springer, from 1995.
http://www.illegal-art.org/video/
"Using the 1992 presidential election as his springboard, documentary filmmaker Brian Springer captures the behind-the-scenes maneuverings of politicians and newscasters in the early 1990s. Pat Robertson banters about "homos," Al Gore learns how to avoid abortion questions, George Bush talks to Larry King about halcyon -- all presuming they're off camera. Composed of 100% unauthorized satellite footage, Spin is a surreal expose of media-constructed reality."
Highly recommended!
Best/Tommy
I also believe in diversity. All opinions (or agendas) must be allowed to be heard, read or seen equally in all media. Yes, Bush's to of course.
Another downloadable documentary out there is the one hour "Spin" by Brian Springer, from 1995.
http://www.illegal-art.org/video/
"Using the 1992 presidential election as his springboard, documentary filmmaker Brian Springer captures the behind-the-scenes maneuverings of politicians and newscasters in the early 1990s. Pat Robertson banters about "homos," Al Gore learns how to avoid abortion questions, George Bush talks to Larry King about halcyon -- all presuming they're off camera. Composed of 100% unauthorized satellite footage, Spin is a surreal expose of media-constructed reality."
Highly recommended!
Best/Tommy
BillyBoy
wrote on 6/14/2004, 5:02 PM
Since I brought it up... you know the old saying where there's smoke there's fire. Well for those that think Moore and others are doing a hatchet job on Bush, you may be curious that CNN, others are sniffing around the same story and filed suit to gain access to the very same records which surprise, surprise Florida don't want to make public.
Get it? Public records that aren't public. The irony.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Voter%20Rolls%20CNN
Worse Florida again sent out instructions to their elections superviors to purge another 40,000 "questionable" voters while many of the mistakes from the 2000 election still haven't been fixed leaving likely Democrat voters off the official voting rolls and unable to vote again. The NAACP, ACLU other civil rights groups also are involved.
Now if I was cynical, it looks like Jeb is trying to steal another election for his brother. I also see the irony in Bush saying he wants to bring "democracy" to Iraq, but keep your cotton picking hands off Florida, my brother wants to purge voters that would probably want to vote for the other guy, that's different. <LOL!
Get it? Public records that aren't public. The irony.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Voter%20Rolls%20CNN
Worse Florida again sent out instructions to their elections superviors to purge another 40,000 "questionable" voters while many of the mistakes from the 2000 election still haven't been fixed leaving likely Democrat voters off the official voting rolls and unable to vote again. The NAACP, ACLU other civil rights groups also are involved.
Now if I was cynical, it looks like Jeb is trying to steal another election for his brother. I also see the irony in Bush saying he wants to bring "democracy" to Iraq, but keep your cotton picking hands off Florida, my brother wants to purge voters that would probably want to vote for the other guy, that's different. <LOL!
kameronj
wrote on 6/14/2004, 6:17 PM
Michael who?
swarrine
wrote on 6/14/2004, 8:16 PM
I think the one thing that everyone has missed at Cannes is that the movie was not the best, not the most tecnical and not the most interesting movie...
Just the most politically correct.
It was a very sad day for film-making -- Cannes turned in to a wild political arena and true film makers (not just politically motivated ones) were virtually ignored.
Good timing/planning on "our movie will not be shown".
Short term victory today (or gullibilty depending on your POV) - may not create a respectable legacy for film making today, however, if you ask yourself, what should Cannes be about? Film or politics?
What would you honestly answer?
Just the most politically correct.
It was a very sad day for film-making -- Cannes turned in to a wild political arena and true film makers (not just politically motivated ones) were virtually ignored.
Good timing/planning on "our movie will not be shown".
Short term victory today (or gullibilty depending on your POV) - may not create a respectable legacy for film making today, however, if you ask yourself, what should Cannes be about? Film or politics?
What would you honestly answer?
busterkeaton
wrote on 6/14/2004, 9:03 PM
So when I left work today, I saw a line of TV news trucks all lined up.
I wonders what the story was, and looked on some of monitors inside the trucks and I see Michael Moore's face.
It was the NYC premiere of "Farenheit 9/11."
I wonders what the story was, and looked on some of monitors inside the trucks and I see Michael Moore's face.
It was the NYC premiere of "Farenheit 9/11."
DGates
wrote on 6/14/2004, 11:42 PM
Listen to conservative radio. You telling me THAT'S objective?
craftech
wrote on 6/15/2004, 5:02 AM
Anything written by Fred Barnes of the Weekly Standard I would not put any trust in. The Weekly Standard is a shill for the PNAC people who are running the Bush government. They are part of Ruppert Murdock's empire which includes Fox 5. They along with Donald Rumsfeld, Eliot Cohen, Richard Armitage, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Dick Cheney, and many others were in bed together since the early nineties. Read their own website:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqmiddleeast.htm
Look at the signatures:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
In addition to that some of the letters (of which I have copies) have been removed because they are too incriminating in terms of the preconceived war with Iraq. They were only removed within the last six months when the heat was on, but there is still enough there to show their intention. Funny how mainstream media never points to these things that have been in existance and were created by the people in government themselves.
But references to anyone writing for The Weekly Standard......strictly shills for the Bush administration.
I'll go see the movie and decide for myself.
John
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqmiddleeast.htm
Look at the signatures:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
In addition to that some of the letters (of which I have copies) have been removed because they are too incriminating in terms of the preconceived war with Iraq. They were only removed within the last six months when the heat was on, but there is still enough there to show their intention. Funny how mainstream media never points to these things that have been in existance and were created by the people in government themselves.
But references to anyone writing for The Weekly Standard......strictly shills for the Bush administration.
I'll go see the movie and decide for myself.
John
Jay Gladwell
wrote on 6/15/2004, 5:09 AM
The second you sit down at your editing stations, you're angling your story to make a point.
There is a BIG difference between "making a point" and telling a lie.
J--
There is a BIG difference between "making a point" and telling a lie.
J--
Jay Gladwell
wrote on 6/15/2004, 5:15 AM
<. . . you may be curious that CNN, others are sniffing around the same story. . .
Ah, the Communist News Network. Now there's a perfect example of journalistic integrity. NOT! They and Moore must have been cut from the same bolt.
J--
Ah, the Communist News Network. Now there's a perfect example of journalistic integrity. NOT! They and Moore must have been cut from the same bolt.
J--
BillyBoy
wrote on 6/15/2004, 7:00 AM
Let me guess... you think that Fox News is 'fair and balanced'.
I see the humor in Bush, both senior and junior. One pukes on his host at a state dinner, the other passes out on the floor of the white house choking on a pretzel needed to be revived by his dog licking his face. One event was caught on tape, can't deny it.. Junior for some goofy reason needed to share his misadventure with the world. That would have been one time a Bush lie would have been appropriate, but the guy is too dumb to think ahead. <wink>
I see the humor in Bush, both senior and junior. One pukes on his host at a state dinner, the other passes out on the floor of the white house choking on a pretzel needed to be revived by his dog licking his face. One event was caught on tape, can't deny it.. Junior for some goofy reason needed to share his misadventure with the world. That would have been one time a Bush lie would have been appropriate, but the guy is too dumb to think ahead. <wink>
VivaVegas
wrote on 6/15/2004, 7:18 AM
You have to realise that all the people in Caan loved this film
I think they are in France....??!!?? ; )
I think they are in France....??!!?? ; )
TomE
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:06 AM
The tragedy for the liar is not that no one believes him
it is that HE does not believe anyone.
I can think of no other way to describe Michael Moore
it is that HE does not believe anyone.
I can think of no other way to describe Michael Moore
Matt_Iserman
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:06 AM
LESS FILLING!
riredale
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:15 AM
TASTES GREAT!
BillyBoy
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:18 AM
Lets me honest. Its all about damage control. (note the deliberately inflamatory subject line of this thread) and has everything to do with trying to protect the image of Bush by attempting to discredit Moore.
Its no small accomplishment to attempt to defend Bush considering what a schmuck the current resident of the white house is.
While I haven't seen the film, I suspect Bush will be the "star" along with members of his cabinet and feature Bush screw-ups, him goofing off, wandering around aimlessly at the ranch, that kind of thing.
I've heard there's a scene of Paul Wolfowitz caught in a candid moment spitting into his hands, rubbing them together then slicking back his hair. Hope that didn't end up on the cutting room floor. No wonder the hate Moore bandwagon has been cranked up by the right wing crowd. Political Satire if done well can be biting and entertaining.
Of course the film will make fun of little Georgie. That's REALLY what is bugging the right wing crowd. The point is there's PLENTY to make fun of in Bush. <wink>
Its no small accomplishment to attempt to defend Bush considering what a schmuck the current resident of the white house is.
While I haven't seen the film, I suspect Bush will be the "star" along with members of his cabinet and feature Bush screw-ups, him goofing off, wandering around aimlessly at the ranch, that kind of thing.
I've heard there's a scene of Paul Wolfowitz caught in a candid moment spitting into his hands, rubbing them together then slicking back his hair. Hope that didn't end up on the cutting room floor. No wonder the hate Moore bandwagon has been cranked up by the right wing crowd. Political Satire if done well can be biting and entertaining.
Of course the film will make fun of little Georgie. That's REALLY what is bugging the right wing crowd. The point is there's PLENTY to make fun of in Bush. <wink>
Matt_Iserman
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:27 AM
riredale,
You clearly have no clue and your insistence on towing the party line further shows your ignorance and inability to address the real issue.
Everyone knows that it's...
LESS FILLING!
You clearly have no clue and your insistence on towing the party line further shows your ignorance and inability to address the real issue.
Everyone knows that it's...
LESS FILLING!
busterkeaton
wrote on 6/15/2004, 8:55 AM
James Caan is promoting this film now?