Actually John, a lot of weddings that I do, they choose not to have a dance at the reception.

But the times that they do, I have edited out the music and added cinescore/smartsound/purchased useable music.

The last wedding I did that had a reception with a dj, I edited out everything replaced it like mentioned above and covered that portion of their wedding as if it was a highlight video. The couple loved it and had no complaints about the music and it was no suprise to them as I told them about this before we ever signed the contract. They paid extremely well and even tipped very generously several months later as they said they were watching their wedding video yet again and thought I went above and beyond in making it for them and they wanted to give me a little something to show their appreciation.

As for instruments, the only weddings I have filmed that had instruments were ones where they used them in the ceremony itself- classical. I have not ran across a wedding yet where a band was utilized at the reception although I did film one where the rehearsal dinner utilized a live band and they played some of their own music- I was able to get it in writing that I could use their music in the production of the DVD. They were a good local band.

In my area there are 4 Christian universities that are in the same city and there are 2 others that are secular. If you know anything about the different denominations- one is Baptist- traditional non-dancers, one is Church of Christ, no musical instruments, no dancing. I get a lot of clients from these two universities.

It makes it easier for me to uphold those standards or at least try to.

j razz

...But the times that they do, I have edited out the music and added cinescore/smartsound/purchased useable music...

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure John was being sarcastic. The fact that you're actually doing all that is a joke.

To use my speeding analogy again, you're like the little old lady driving 55, while everyone around you is driving 70. And you're tempted to use your phone to call 911 and report all the speeders.

rs170a, APRA in Australia is excellent.

Here's the spefic link for a A$400 (about US$300) annual license to use commercial music on wedding CD & DVDs. It's crazy that similar cover is not available in the US.

http://www.apra.com.au/music-users/making_records/weddings_and_other_domestic_videos.asp

Maybe we'll see some "Australian" front companies for weddings, similar to "Panamanian" ships :-)

...Here's the spefic link for a A$400 (about US$300) annual license to use commercial music on wedding CD & DVDs. It's crazy that similar cover is not available in the US...

That seems to be a fair fee to pay. They know it's not affecting the music industry's bottom line that much, hence the small fee.

"...But the times that they do, I have edited out the music and added cinescore/smartsound/purchased useable music...

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure John was being sarcastic. The fact that you're actually doing all that is a joke.

To use my speeding analogy again, you're like the little old lady driving 55, while everyone around you is driving 70. And you're tempted to use your phone to call 911 and report all the speeders."


It is this mentality that has driven the prices up on EVERYONE and made P2P and pirating such a common place. For you to sit here and condone it based on the small numbers makes me hope that whatever content you do one day gets stolen/pirated so you don't make any money either. Then maybe you will see how the other half lives.

To use your analogy a bit differently, lets say this little old lady steals a 1985 Chevette while others on her block steal BMWs. Surely you think we should bust the BMW thieves and let the little old lady go. Crime is crime.

Maybe Ill download his movies or copy his website design and use it as my own. Surely he can afford it at $5k a pop. I'm just a school teacher and its not hurting anyone. Maybe Ill buy some of those Carlton Sheets products you have linked on that website and replace it with my name and sell them on my own infomercial. It shouldn't hurt because he scams everyone out of cash and he can afford it and I'm just a little old business school teacher.

Maybe its not as big of deal to you but lets see what happens when the RIAA catch wind of it and basically take his business.

As mentioned before, speeding 1 mile over the limit is a crime. So that would mean you're breaking the law every single time you drive.

So when do you suppose you'll turn yourself in? After all, crime is crime.

DGates,

It is funny that you bring up the motor vehicle violation. I have long sense stopped speeding (at least knowingly), but that is besides the point that I am about to bring up. I was listening to the local talk radio channel for our area and they had the sherrif and chief of police on the air. The area I am in has over 140,000 people in it. A person called in about people running a stop sign. The chief of police made the comment that the law is for the good of the people and the letter of the law being kept was never intended. He stated that if someone slowed down, looked and went on through, that was good enough as the intention is to keep people from just speeding on through or making a fast turn without slowing down. He further stated that his men would not ticket for such things unless it was blatantly obvious that the person did not slow down to a "reasonable" speed before going through or turning.

I found this rather odd that the chief of police was advocating the breaking of the letter of the law. I like the commensense approach, but that poses a problem; if you get into the habit of slow-and-going here and then venture into another jurisdiction and out of habit you do the same thing there, you may just get a ticket.

Edit: spelling.

j razz

That's true. Like the speed traps in rural areas that do ticket for modest speed limit violations, because it's a source of the town's revenue.

And that's my point about copyrighted music in wedding videos. Using it is technically going against the letter of the law. But it's far less of a concern to the music industry than conunterfeit CD's, music downloads and other more serious violations.

"As mentioned before, speeding 1 mile over the limit is a crime. So that would mean you're breaking the law every single time you drive.

So when do you suppose you'll turn yourself in? After all, crime is crime."

I dont speed at all. I have a wonderful family to think about not to mention having to account for the other reckless drivers out there.

So maybe I should do the honest thing and turn that guy in right? Crime is definitely a crime after all.

You're just slightly full it it to say you've never gone over the speed limit, no matter how incrementally. But I'd expect you to say that, because if you told the truth, you'd confirm my point.

Listen dude, I dont speed. Ever. Its either the speed limit or under. Always has been, always will be. I have lost too many people to speed. But again, here I am justifying my actions to someone who condones theft. PATHETIC!

You're blissfully ignorant. Is your 'wonderful' family as delusional as you are?

Is your 'wonderful' family as delusional as you are?

Come on DGates- don't go there; this could become heated due to ego, and all over the speed limit.

j razz

You're right aout ego. As when someone says he's never gone 1 mile over the speed limit in his whole life, just so he can make the point that he never skirts the letter of the law.

I'd have to plead guilty to rarely driving _below_ the speed limit. I think I've paid for the new lunchroom at the local police station. ;-)

That said, the Australian/Eu system is something I wish the USA would provide in some form or fashion for wedding/event use.
WEVA and the 4EverGroup have both been working pretty hard to secure some sort of avenue, and it looks like they're both succeeding at some level.

I have stopped doing edited wedding videos altogether. All "edits" are in camera only, and I occasionally get to use the cheesy in camera fades, transitions, etc (sparingly). The audio is not edited, and I charge my day rate to do the work.

While I'm not a lawyer by any means, it would be hard to argue that this would be a derivative work, since I am merely documenting the event and not syncing the cuts to the music being played. The clients understand this and are happy to have their wedding shot professionally and at a lower rate than the other guys, who, of course, want to sell their higher priced edited packages.

Oh, and I'm done after 12 hours of work or so ;-)

Me neither, i don't buy "crime is a crime" attitude/argument. Law is here to serve us humans and not the other way around. There are general ruleas that should be ahered to still there is logic going on where speeding 1 mile over the limit won't hurt anybody as much as some wedding videographer laying down a popular track to be seen by a few dozen close family members isn't hurting anybody eaither. Of course there is a small group of "righteous" people who think that their suffering shoudl be experiences by anybody because "law is the law."

"Oh, and I'm done after 12 hours of work or so ;-)"

So you just hand over the MiniDV tapes at the end of the day?

What I don't get is why the music industry doesn't offer some sort of licensing scheme that makes financial sense for all the small videographers who create products for such small audiences. I have to think most folks want to run a legit business, and it sure couldn't hurt the music industry to pick up a little extra cash.

I'm not condoning the unlicensed use of copyrighted material. But I have to say, the arrogance of the music industry, its untempered greed, and its contempt for the folks who love music and/or use music for professional reasons makes it hard for me to shed any tears on its behalf.

I once had an interesting conversation with a saleswoman at FirstCom when I was considering licensing some of the music in their library. She was very nice for the most part, but when I mentioned how difficult it is for the small guy to license popular music for low-distribution videos (less than 5 copies, for example), she got all snooty and said something along the lines of, "Well, we'd all like to drive a Mercedes, wouldn't we?" It was an irritating attitude for sure, but it kind of misses the point. If I want to drive a Mercedes every day for five years, then yes, I expect to pony up big bucks. But if I just want to rent one to take my daughter to the prom, should I have to pay full retail for the price of the car?

Perhaps there is some other reason the music industry doesn't want to facilitate small video creators. Perhaps they feel it devalues their music by allowing it to show up in low-level wedding and graduation videos. I honestly have no idea.

Sure seems there's a business opportunity just waiting for some smart middleman, someone who would buy up bulk licences from the big music houses at premium prices and then resell those licenses to small, individual videographers. That way, the music companies could deal with one or two big players and add cash to the bottom line, and videographers would have legal access to the music their clients want.

Just my random 2 cents....

Good points, Scott. Seems like the Austrailian system is the way to go. It's fair to both sides.

Here is an example of how music can make or break a wedding highlight clip. I couldn't afford the artist I orginally wanted, so they gave me a big discount to use someone else. He was popular a couple of years ago. (wink)

Clip

The Australian system is not unique to this country, from what I've heard it's much the same in many countries. I don't understand why this hasn't been sorted out in the USA. I seem to recall WEVA have been trying, maybe more of you should get behind WEVA or whoever represents event videographers in your country.

The Australian system is not unique to this country, from what I've heard it's much the same in many countries. I don't understand why this hasn't been sorted out in the USA. I seem to recall WEVA have been trying, maybe more of you should get behind WEVA or whoever represents event videographers in your country.
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Everyone is having so much fun with my thread they probably forgot that Loi Banh and Blucore Media is in Vancouver, BC and not the US including the guy that changed the topic in post number five. But this is kind if fun actually.

I have no idea what the law is in Canada about copyrighted music or licensing thereof.

Now about Karl Rove and the Bush administration.........................

John