OT: Lessons from the Death of HD-DVD

TGS wrote on 2/22/2008, 5:38 PM

Two hours and a half and nobody's commented yet???
I thought it was a very interesting article
Hmmm, must be a lot of MS lovers here.
Where's ol Blinky? He will love finding out who made him waste his time on the wrong format.

Chienworks wrote on 2/22/2008, 5:44 PM

I think you'll find that there is a growing number of people here who just can't be bothered to give a darn anymore. I think i can sum it up in two words. "So what?"

TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/22/2008, 7:01 PM

Two hours and a half and nobody's commented yet???

sounds more like you were trolling then just trying to give us some news.

blink3times wrote on 2/22/2008, 7:26 PM

Where's ol Blinky? He will love finding out who made him waste his time on the wrong format.

Yes... that's right... pass the "responsibility buck" down the line.

No one is responsible for me "wasting time" other than myself. Toshiba (or microsoft) did not come down to my house and hold a gun to my head. The decision was mine..... just as it was Toshiba's. I have yet to hear somebody at M$ get arrested for pointing a gun at Toshiba and forcing their hand.

As far as M$ goes... it's a business, no better or worse than Sony, Ford, GM...etc. I will say however, that I have yet to see a major stock holder/owner/cofounder in any one of these other companies donate something on the order of 40 billion dollars (plus what Warren Buffet has added) to the poor.

apit34356 wrote on 2/22/2008, 8:53 PM

Not a bad quick summary. Of course, the linux/SCO deals would help explain the remaining media center/server battle and the future of DL services.

John_Cline wrote on 2/22/2008, 9:15 PM

Back when I was hanging out with Bill Gates in the late 70s, I never heard him talk about how much money he could potentially make, he tallked about wanting to make a big contribution to society. He has done that in a way that no one ever has before. Good for him.

John

craftech wrote on 2/23/2008, 5:38 AM

Two hours and a half and nobody's commented yet???
==============
OK.

John

JJKizak wrote on 2/23/2008, 6:09 AM

That's nice about Bill Gates. But I have some old issues with his thought processes---Press start to turn off the computer, why do I have to wait before it turns on and why do I have to wait to turn it off. And what kind of algorithym is employed for sharring IRQ's?
JJK

blink3times wrote on 2/23/2008, 7:24 AM

That's nice about Bill Gates. But I have some old issues with his thought processes---Press start to turn off the computer, why do I have to wait before it turns on and why do I have to wait to turn it off. And what kind of algorithym is employed for sharring IRQ's?

Well, you see.... as usual you're looking at this from entirely the wrong angle. First you have to START the shutdown procedure, second... patience is a virtue and Bill is trying to better the world by teaching this to as many as possible, and third.... sharing is what makes the world go round and if the IRQ's were on their own I'm reasonably sure that they would feel pretty lonely.

fwtep wrote on 2/23/2008, 12:54 PM

I'm going to have to go with Blink on this one. Wiser words were never spoken.

blink3times wrote on 2/23/2008, 2:34 PM

I'm going to have to go with Blink on this one.

Well... NOW the sky really is falling! :)

apit34356 wrote on 2/23/2008, 4:16 PM

This is scary, Blink and Fred, dancing and singing MS$ songs together! ;-) --------- MS$ must be collapsing into a black hole! ;-)

blink3times wrote on 2/23/2008, 6:14 PM

This is scary, Blink and Fred, dancing and singing MS$ songs together!

Hey listen.... I just went out and bought a Onkyo705 A/V Receiver today in preparation for the purchase of a PS thrrrrr..... a PSthrrrrrrr.... a game conssssss.... A sony PSSSS. Dam! I still can't say it!

Nice machine though. I was going to get a Denon but then saw this. All the in/outs are assignable so I can run a bunch of different audio/video inputs and assign them all to 1 HDMI output. So I have Svid coming from my cable box, composite from the dvd player and HDMI coming from the HD DVD player. And it all get assigned to a single HDMI cable to the monitor. The options are just endless on this thing! It even decodes all the newer audio types. I highly recommend it!

apit34356 wrote on 2/24/2008, 12:05 AM

Blink, keep us inform about your new hookup and overall audio experience. Welcome to the Dark side ----er--- Blue side-- ;-)

MozartMan wrote on 2/24/2008, 6:06 AM

Yeah blink! Welcome to the Blu side!
And repeat after me: P - S - 3. :-)

JJKizak wrote on 2/24/2008, 6:17 AM

Well, now that HD-DVD- is dead I just ordered a Toshiba HDA-35 for $224.00. According to the reviews it has the best (#1) upconvert performance and also CD performance. I hope It will match my 8 track, D-VHS, and 1985 Technics CD players.
JJK

apit34356 wrote on 2/24/2008, 9:40 AM

JJKizak, lets us know how the Toshiba HDA-35 performs.

DrLumen wrote on 2/24/2008, 10:33 PM

That is a serious hatchet job on M$. I like it.

There is one point that the author is apparently not aware and that is, currently, the suckers at AT&T are using WinCE in their Uverse set top boxes. It is no big surprise that they are having problems and that initially promised features are coming "soon" (for about 1.5 years now). While Uverse does not have a large install base, it could potentially become large. I do keep hoping AT&T will see the light and go open source but it's likely they will just fail.

apit34356 wrote on 2/25/2008, 1:49 AM

DrLumen, I agree that the AT&T Uverse set id headed towards the junkyard if they don't wise up. AT&T guys thought MS would carry thru on a boxset design----- but MS has a really poor history in designs, tho they are trying harder--I think.

Also, this is interesting, with early claims of over 500,000 X360 HD DVD ad-ons sold, looks more like between 5k-50k units the way MS is dropping production. Another X360 HD media center setback-----------------------------
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MS axes Xbox 360 HD DVD drive

By Tony Smith
25th February 2008 08:41 GMT

Microsoft is dropping its HD DVD add-on drive from its list of Xbox 360 add-ons, the software giant revealed this past weekend.

The blame was placed firmly on "recent decisions made by Toshiba, Hollywood studios, and retailers", but whoever's responsible, MS will "no longer manufacture new HD DVD players for the Xbox 360".

The move comes as no great surprise. After Toshiba's decision to throw in the towel in the format fight and concede victory to Blu-ray Disc, a move that will see it cease manufacture of HD DVD drives, Microsoft would at the very least have to find a new drive supplier.

But with major retailers Wal-Mart and Best Buy dropping HD DVD movies, and both Paramount and Universal Studios now committed to Blu-ray, there's not a lot of point in an Xbox 360 owner investing in the HD DVD drive from now on. The Xbox 360 add-on was intended solely for fim viewing.

MS' decision highlights its wisdom in opting for an external HD DVD drive rather than going the whole hog and building the drive into a new version of the console. Fans of the format will accuse Microsoft of helping the format's failure by failing to support HD DVD the way Sony promoted Blu-ray Disc by building it into the PlayStation 3.

Will MS offer a Blu-ray drive for the 360? All the company said on the matter this time is: "HD DVD is one of the several ways we offer a high definition experience to consumers and we will continue to give consumers the choice to enjoy digital distribution of high definition movies and TV shows directly to their living room, along with playback of the DVD movies they already own."

Looks like it has its eye on a future in which movies are downloaded.
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blink3times wrote on 2/26/2008, 3:55 AM

A rather interesting thread on the AVS forum entitled "PS3 vs BD50".

I was gearing up for the PS3.... I like the idea of M2T playback, But sound is also pretty important to me. Aparently the PS3 will not bitstream Dolby True HD. There is debate as to whether or not it can do DTS-MA and HR.... some are saying it's merely a firmware upgrade and some are saying that the hardware is too old and FW upgrade won't work (older version of HDMI 1.3.... which is why it can't bitstream Dolby True HD in the first place). Of the 2 arguments, the latter makes more sense to me.... the PS3 is almost 2 years old now. The whole thing leaves me with quite the decision.... I think I may hold off for the BD50.... although I have not yet heard if it can playback BD-r and AVCHD on dvd (which is priority number one).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=997240

Audio comparison chart:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672

apit34356 wrote on 2/26/2008, 4:32 AM

"some are saying that the hardware is too old and FW upgrade won't work (older version of HDMI 1.3.... which is why it can't bitstream Dolby True HD in the first place)" ????? as usually, the AVSFORUMS is loaded with a lot of MS pushed FUD. There no current player or gaming console that matches the cell's math or codec expansion, period. If its a digital bit stream, PS3 resources can managed it. But if its important to you to use inferior design hardware, spend your money again! ;-)

More news about Sony and Sharp LCD TV deals
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Sony and Sharp forge TV alliance
Sharp's Aquos LCD television
Sharp is currently building the world's largest LCD panel factory
Sony and Sharp have forged an alliance to help them meet the growing demand for liquid crystal display televisions.

Sony is to take a one-third stake in Sharp's $3.5bn (£1.8bn) LCD panel factory, which is due to be completed in March 2010.

Sony does not currently make the LCD panels for its flat-screen televisions, relying instead on a joint venture with South Korea's Samsung.

Sony shares rose more than 1% on the news, while Sharp closed unchanged.

Sony and Samsung branded televisions are competing for the number one spot in LCD sales, with Sharp trailing behind them.

Global sales of LCD televisions are expected to double to 155 million units by 2012, according to the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Association.

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blink3times wrote on 2/26/2008, 5:02 AM

as usually, the AVSFORUMS is loaded with a lot of MS pushed FUD.

Nah... I don't buy that . These aren't MS haters, BD lovers, or even HD DVD lovers. These are people merely trying to figure out the best options for themselves. As for expanding the PS3... I agree... it's the most expandable blu ray machine out there. But again, if it doesn't have the necessary hardware it can not be FW upgraded no matter how hard you try. Some of the SAL players are in the same boat... they can't bitstream the newer audio formats because of the hardware. It stands to reason that the PS3 is much the same.

At minimum there is serious debate on the issue which of course means nobody is sure.

apit34356 wrote on 2/26/2008, 5:21 AM

"But again, if it doesn't have the necessary hardware it can not be FW upgraded no matter how hard you try" Blink, its a digital bitstream. 90% of all this hardware is based on the ARM cpus with additional cheap DAP processors. The fastest ARM cpu is not even 4% as fast with DAPs as the cell in codec expansion. Even the tri-core X360 will trash any ARM cpus in production without any DAP processors. Any bitstream that be processed by a DAP, the cell can match if not outright destroy on thru-put. Note-If the cell was so outdated, why would Toshiba spend +$900 million for part of a cell plant so they can add it to their high-end HD TVs?

blink3times wrote on 2/26/2008, 5:43 AM

Note-If the cell was so outdated

Who said the cell was outdated? What is being discussed is the HDMI connect, which has undergone some serious changes in the recent past, so it is possible (although I am not sure how probable)

The PS3 is a computer, but so is the thing I'm sitting in front of right now... and it's a lot more expandable than the PS3 because I can change out the hardware.

So the question is whether or not the PS3's present hdmi version can handle the streaming of the newer audio formats. I know that the HDMI versions of some of the SAL players can not.