Opampman wrote on 10/28/2011, 11:08 AM
Have you tried the utility from DataVideo for their DV60 when used with Fat32 formatted cards? I think it runs on Win7 but not sure if it will work with MXF files. It's on this page:

UlfLaursen wrote on 10/28/2011, 11:48 AM

I tried it, but it is very simple and needs the files in the root of a drive, and does seem to only support m2t files....

UlfLaursen wrote on 10/28/2011, 11:19 PM
Ok, I did some intensive testing this morning on this issue.

I downloaded at tried several file merger utilities and even tried the simple command line merger "copy /b....." and nothing worked. The file would be there and seem to have the right size, but Vegas will not recognize it at all.

The only way I see now, is to render out all clips in one big file, if I need to do multicam.

ushere wrote on 10/29/2011, 12:41 AM
a. have you tried sony's mxf viewer utility? can't remember it's name but it's been referred to here quite often.

b. will your clips 'smart' render to one large file?

c. are the joints clean (sounds rather sus;-)) on the big file you managed to compile?
UlfLaursen wrote on 10/29/2011, 2:19 AM
Thanks Leslie

The big file I got I could not open

I tried the Sony, but could not export the files, but import and playback was fine

Will try to render out - good idea.

I fond a coda supported converter, that could convert mxf to avid nxhd f.ex. might try that one too.


UlfLaursen wrote on 10/29/2011, 2:06 PM
According to the manual pg. 363 it should be possible to to smartrender MXF files. Look forward to test it tomorrow :-)

UlfLaursen wrote on 10/29/2011, 11:25 PM
Ok, smartrendering works...but it takes quite a while to smartrender. 1 hr. takes almost an hr. or so on my i7 970X with read from one drive an write to another.

The format should be ok, MXF 1920 x 1080 50i 422 50 Mbps

It says "no recompression requiered" so I guess it's kin of smart rendering.

Well, ok, if that's the only problem I have 2 face it's probably ok :) but would still be nice to get it done quicker somehow.

PeterDuke wrote on 10/30/2011, 3:27 AM
I am still surprised that the DOS command "Copy /B file1+file2+file3 combinedFile" didn't work. It is easy to make a mistake. Are you sure that you didn't?

Does the Canon XF 300 come with a utility program to transfer files from camera to PC? If so, it would probably glue the 2 GB chunks back together properly and automatically.
Grazie wrote on 10/30/2011, 4:16 AM
Peter, both Ulf and I have that utility. And no, it doesn't. Its an archaic and frustrating utility. You can view an hour long clip, but when you eventually import the media you get 10 or 11 separate clips. IMO, Canon need to make a utility that can cope with larger than 1.99gb files - SONY can. It's not as if they hadn't the known about fat32 and NTFS and so on.

Poor show .... Camera is amazing. Media workflow, for greater than 1.99gb files, into Vegas stinks.


farss wrote on 10/30/2011, 5:26 AM
I gather from what Ulf has said that he's tried Sony's Clipbrowser?

I'm pleasntly surprised that it'll read the files from the Canon but given that it can I'm wondering how either you or Ulf have tried to use it to stitch the files togther. Have you tried the Export For NLE as MXF option?

I have a bit of a vested interest in this as I'm a tad interested in a reasonably priced camera from Canon (X10), Sony's nearest equivalent stinks but you guys are raising red flags.

Grazie wrote on 10/30/2011, 6:32 AM
I'm pleasntly surprised that it'll read the files from the Canon but given that it can I'm wondering how either you or Ulf have tried to use it to stitch the files togther. Have you tried the Export For NLE as MXF option?

I haven't tried the SONY utility, so I can't comment on your second statement.

The camera, for me, is brilliant. Great pictures and great ergonomics. I do have some design improvements that Canon will be made aware of at the next Canon road show!


UlfLaursen wrote on 10/30/2011, 11:31 PM
I agree with Grazie.

Bob, I did try the Sony util, but I'm not sure I did it correctly. I have the Clipbrowser 2.6 with two explorer windows. It seems that hey look for MP4 files to convert to MXF?

As you can see, I never get a chance to select any clips and then ofcourse the Export to MXF for NLE is greyed out too.

Again, I might do something wrong here...

Another possibility would be for Sony Vegas to support the merging feature, like they do with AVCHD. Both Premiere Pro 5.5 and Edius support this feature via a clip / media browser of some kind, so it would be possible to do inside Vegas.

I works so great with AVCHD, so I would love to have it done with MXF too.

farss wrote on 10/31/2011, 12:59 AM
now that I've seen the folder structure that the Canon is using then I'm pretty confident the Clipbrowser is not going to work, sorry guys.

Whilst I agree, it would be nice for Vegas to stitch the files together for you given that they don't seem to be able to get it to work fully with Sony's own XDCAM cameras I would not hold my breath waiting for them to support Canon's file system.
Perhaps you would have more luck banging on Canon's door.

UlfLaursen wrote on 10/31/2011, 1:10 AM
I think you are right, Bob.

I met with the EU product manager for Canon Pro product a while ago at an event at a customer of ours - I will try at write him to see if can forward the request to someone in development.


UlfLaursen wrote on 10/31/2011, 2:17 AM
... and my problem is now time in this workflow:

First I backup the media - 20 min. for 1 hrs. footage
Then I create the MXF files from the XF utility - another 20 min.
These files I import to Vegas and render out to one large clip - atm it takes one hr. when smartrendering to MXF.

In worst case it takes more than 1.5 hrs. to prepare 1 hrs. footage at best XF quality, 50 Mbps.

Ten years ago it took me 1 hr to capture 1 hrs footage. I know you cannot completely compare the two, but it still is a lot of work... and people say that tapeless workflow should be faster :)

Grazie wrote on 10/31/2011, 2:36 AM
Ulf, I'm quite *€$^%# OFF at this state of affairs! It's mindnumbingly silly. The Camera is great. The idea of dealing with files instead of tape, is perfect.

But this one thing is unacceptable!

If you are willing to add your name to what I'm doing to get SONY and hopefully Canon to get this sorted we and many many other Vegas users should, could, would benefit. I've had a recent comms with SONY and will pursue this further.

Again, SONY can gain and share with Canon to allow their Vegas users to benefit. MXF is MXF. What we're asking for is the not unreasonable request to be able to get long form files: shows, lectures, presentation, briefings and so on into VEGAS as a single file. Multicam editing??? A #+^%€$ ' nightmare.

So, let's get busy........


ushere wrote on 10/31/2011, 3:23 AM
i certainly don't want to rub salt into any open wounds, but did either of you actually check these details out prior to buying the canon?

i'm finding students buying all sorts of esoteric cameras (gopro, some chinese saturday night specials, richco, etc.,), recording all sorts of non-standard codecs, and then complaining that their nle (be it vegas, ppro, fcp) WON'T play happily with them.

i don't think it's sony's responsibility to incorporate every new codec, in fact, as i often point out, if you use what's printed in sony's specs you (generally) don't have problems.

in your position i would be seriously hassling canon as to either a functioning utility to stitch clips together, or an explanation as to how they foresaw people editing with their codec.

i know, not much consolation....
UlfLaursen wrote on 10/31/2011, 4:34 AM
Wel Leslie, the choice for me was quite easy. I have prior had bad experience with with Sony Pro cams, and as a small part time business, it can hurt you a lot to feel to have "wasted" $7K that break just after warranty runs out.

That said, I got the Canon with a lot of discount, because I sell it at work, and I am happy all along, just feel a bid painfull to use that much time "capturing" inside Vegas.

In 75% of my work, I can live with the spanned clips, it's only at multicam editing, I feel a "real" pain.

i have to figure out what I will do, but so far editing is a breeze inside V11 :)

Grazie wrote on 10/31/2011, 4:53 AM
No Leslie, I did NOT check if a camera producing more 20 minutes of footage would then deliver, in VEGAS, separate files. I did know that we ARE in the 21st century and that although FAT32 is the OS of choice for CF cards, that file aggregation would hopefully have been a thing of the past. Not an unreasonable assumption on my part?

However, what I did check, Leslie, is that I knew that SONY deals with MXF and that the edting CODEC is understood by VEGAS. And, Leslie, do you know HOW I knew? I did a review using this camera's output for our Institute of Videography and carried-over the MXF files into VEGAS. I edited away and was totally in awe of the simplicity of the edit process. It worked then and it works now.

You got that now?

No, this is solely the issue of concatenating separate files. Not whether the MXF file edits. And, BTW, the output from this camera works as it should in AVID and FCP. Did you know that either? No? OK. So that was another piece of valuable research I did. If it works in those other NLEs chances are that it COULD have a seamless workflow into VEGAS. At the very least I could go to either SCS and/or Canon and investigate (exactly what I'm doing now) a method to get there. My approach, it's what I've been told, gets my requests met is acceptable. Again, input workflow works for AVID and FCP. Guess what, Leslie, Canon don't develop NLEs, so it's in their and here SCS to get along.

So, please dissuade yourself that I rushed at this purchase without the necessary, adult, grown-up purchasing decision that got me, and Ulf, to this point in time. But if I can't dissuade you, then that's your decision.

OK, all that being said, if you have any suggestions as to the tack I should now take, I invite you to get stuck in. As I said, I've taken this up with SONY and shall, as they know, I will work with them, as I've done over the years, with Vegas, to get through it.

ushere wrote on 10/31/2011, 5:36 AM
i'll duck back behind the barricade ;-)
Grazie wrote on 10/31/2011, 6:09 AM
John, thanks. I can't see a checkout price nor an option to try before you buy. I'm kinda holding out for a Canon<>SCS internal solution, having a 3rd Party solution gets more complex. But thanks again, for the caring enough to do a bit of surfing.

Leslie's, Leslie, Leslie...... What can I say? I know what, don't change! And thanks for giving me a chance to voice my frustration and at least to have a bit of a lobbying option to have SCS read this stuff to think on. SCS do read this stuff, don't they?

It's all good. No worries mate. And this issue is with large, > 1.99gb files.


John_Cline wrote on 10/31/2011, 6:26 AM
Grazie, try this direct link:
farss wrote on 10/31/2011, 7:15 AM
"i'm finding students buying all sorts of esoteric cameras (gopro, some chinese saturday night specials, richco, etc.,), recording all sorts of non-standard codecs, and then complaining that their nle (be it vegas, ppro, fcp) WON'T play happily with them."

The camera under discussion here is a darn sight more expensive than a GoPro.

"i don't think it's sony's responsibility to incorporate every new codec"

Just to be clear this is not a codec issue. Vegas handles the codec. It's the control files that are there to tell a player or NLE how to join the files that Vegas refuses to read. SCS claim they "support" a lot of things which they don't e.g. XDCAM EX, BWF. They do enough of the easy part so they can add another bullet point to the PPT and that's it.

In any case this is the tail wagging the dog. NLEs are cheap compared to what these cameras cost. If it doesn't work with Vegas and it works with another NLE as Sony or Canon or Panasonic intended the resolution seems pretty blatantly obvious to me.