OK, I'll join in the general rant :)

Much to my shock and horror pretty well all the accounting software for SMBs is now subscription based. Even worse unlike CC you don't even get to keep your data on your computer.

The accounting software I bought for $200 over 10 years ago has in effect cost under $20 / year and now I'm expected to pay $20 / month.

One of the great features of all the cloud based accounting is, according to my new accountant , that it can automatically reconcile my bank accounts. He didn't mention that to do that it needs the client number and password to my bank accounts. According to the only information I can find on how safe that is; if someone hacks a server in a far off land and drains all my accounts I have zero chance of recompense from my bank or the software vendor.
Suddenly Adobe's CC looks quite benign :(

Bob.

> "...at this point I'm not really paying Adobe any more for the monthly rentals than I was for the upgrades I was doing."

If you were upgrading every year that is true because the annual subscription fee is currently about the same as the annual upgrade free. Unfortunately, I wasn't upgrading every year. I was upgrading very other year so the subscription model would cost me double. But your next point is really why I won't subscribe...

> "What I am not comfortable with is the inability to gracefully back out of the subscription model and retain the ability to service past projects created with Adobe products. This is where I feel I am being held hostage."

That is exactly the problem. What if you decide you don't want to use Adobe products anymore? Now you can't even open an old project to refer to how to completed a particular task or make a change for a customer. I would much rather a maintenance agreement model. I do this with TechSmith Camtasia. I pay an annual maintenance contract and I get every new version for free. If I decide to drop the contract I can still use the software until it stops working. I think this is what everyone who hasn't signed up for CC is waiting for from Adobe. Without a way to continue to work once you opt out, it doesn't make sense to get involved in the first place unless A) You're a company with deep pockets and don't care or actually prefer the expense to the capital cost, or B) Everyone you collaborate with expects you to use Adobe in which you have no choice.

That last point is where I feel that Adobe is abusing their power. It's not so bad for video editors, but there is no way that you can be a freelance graphic designer and not use Photoshop and Illustrator. These are the tools that all designers are expected to have. Adobe knows that some customers have no choice and so they are abusing their position in the industry as a result.

~jr

One indirect benefit of the "own" model is owners can gift/donate/sell old licenses to others who may be be unable to afford the newest version.

Only if you're allowed to. Autodesk (for example) allows you to upgrade from but not resell/give away old versions. SCS is the only company that makes software that allowed this that I know of.

PC games pretty much went away from selling used copies ~10 years ago. You could still some for a couple years, but it's non-existent now. That's how I would justify a $50 purchase for a game: if I didn't think it was worth keeping I could resell it. Now I buy games for no more then $20. Just not worth that much to me.

There are many good points being raised in this discussion. It tends to show that the marketplace has a lot of room for variation and satisfaction can be achieved with very discrete audiences of customers. But not one shoe fits all is very clear. I for one business owner can not make sense of the current Adobe Premiere model - thank goodness I can still use SCS to date.

There are also subscription models such as Digital Juice is offering now that could be beneficial for some customers, but I know they will also lose a lot more business including from me. It just isn't a satisfactory solution to be used with a small independent company with tight cash flows.

[I]"I would much rather a maintenance agreement model."[/I]

What compelling reason exists for you to keep paying for it?

As much as we seem to dislike the idea of effectively leasing software we're ignoring the other side of the issue, how do the software vendors maintain an income stream?

It's not just Adobe facing this issue. Windows XP remains the most popular OS because it just works. Office 2000 has every feature most people need and like Vegas later versions are less stable, especially Access :(
The only company that's figured out a way to compel users to keep putting their hand in their pocket is Apple but even that model faces an uncertain future. There's no getting away from the problems any industry that's enjoyed exponential growth for a period faces as it matures.

Bob.

"Windows XP remains the most popular OS because it just works. Office 2000 has every feature most people need"

Yes, I run Office 2000 (with a compatibility update) on my XP box, and it is all I need. I also retain my XP machine because I have some perfectly good hardware that doesn't have drivers for later versions of Windows.

One of these days some catch 22 is going to force me to update everything, I just know it. :(

Office 97 pro here. After Microsoft released the "x" file converters, 97 is still more than i'll ever need. Heck, Office 6 didn't add any features i'd ever use over Office 2, but Office 7 does support long file names.

What compelling reason exists for you to keep paying for it?

Same way everyone else does. Give us a reason to buy another one. :) There's always people who don't want a new version and there's always new people who will want the current one. Selling NLE's isn't any different the games: release a new one when you've got something worth the cost. In between release extra's that cost $$, like new plugins, content, etc.

Adobe doesn't do that though, they just sell tools. Craftsman still sells new wrench & socket sets even though they have a lifetime warranty because people want new ones. If a tool company can replace your tool if it breaks and STILL make $$, then a software company should be able to too. :)

"how do the software vendors maintain an income stream?"

That is their problem, not ours. They either provide genuine features that we must have (not mere bloat), or they evolve to another field just as workers have to retrain when their jobs are no longer wanted. Holding the users to ransom while milking the cash cow is unacceptable.

It may be argued that they need to be paid for security updates, but I argue that if we were not forced to be tied to the internet, we would not need the security updates.

interesting conversation - just how does a software company keep going i the long term....

i'm using off 2000, and though i've got cs6, vegas 13, etc., etc., i really don't think i'm doing anything i couldn't do on older versions.

i suppose it's like cars, they'll all get you from a to b (in varying modes of style and comfort), but people by and large like NEW stuff - just look at the smart phone market.

what i do see happening is a more educated and savvy market, one where sophisticated products, be they cars, mobiles, nle's have to offer what the customer WANTS, not what the manufacturer thinks they want.

There are plenty of business models to support an on-going software development like SCS or Adobe. Generally what appears to happen is that the management lacks in innovation and inspiration to do things that will be a win/win for customers, and software authors alike.

In General prices are set way too low for reality ( but it is a competitive world we live in as well.) I paid $120 for Vegas Pro 13 with a lot of goodies thrown in. And after not buying any VegasPro version for many years. How can the company make money off sales like mine is the real question-and yet there are plenty of avenues to do so. The corporate is just hampered by a lack of imagination and the marketing to execute.

[I]"how do the software vendors maintain an income stream?"[/I]

There is another method, old users retire, or die. New users are coming into the market. Remember that old adage 'There's one born every minute.'

Agree about prices to cheap. Prices aren't adjusting for inflation so instead of the same 300k units a year @ $600 a decade ago, that want (for example) 1,000k units @ $600. Sure, prices would go up, when prices are up so is the level of competence of the initial purchaser. Remember when you could get a great simulation game for a home computer when PC's were $2500 for a mid-level? Now you can get Bejeweled that run on anything, but no more sims because anybody can buy a $300 computer off the shelf.

>Much to my shock and horror pretty well all the accounting software for SMBs is now subscription based. Even worse unlike CC you don't even get to keep your data on your computer.

Bob, I use Quickbooks Pro 2013 and as far as I can tell they still offer the desktop version in 2014 edition. I would be upset if I were forced to put my accounting data in the cloud.

/jerry

>Adobe doesn't do that though, they just sell tools. Craftsman still sells new wrench & socket sets even though they have a lifetime warranty because people want new ones. If a tool company can replace your tool if it breaks and STILL make $$, then a software company should be able to too. :)

Friar, I happen to know a bit about this. My golfing buddy works for the company that makes Craftsman tools for Sears. Despite moving all production to China a couple of years ago, the Craftsman line is still not making money. Bain & Associates bought the manufacturer and is steering them away from retail and toward commercial tool users.

But, I agree with your larger point that software vendors just have to give us a reason to upgrade. I'll add it should be a real reason rather than a contrived one. The marketplace usually does a great job rewarding innovation.

/jerry

"there would come a point where creatives like myself would be in the middle of a project, and all of a sudden their software would just quit working."

Just to throw in the monkey wrench on this discussion ... doesn't this happen with non-subscription software too? Certainly we've seen more than enough stories in here about folks who's installation suddenly deactivated itself and they couldn't get in touch with customer support over the weekend to get it reactivated.

And of course, any software installation can go corrupt and stop working at the most inconvenient time.

> "What compelling reason exists for you to keep paying for it?"

In the case of the maintenance agreement with TechSmith, my compelling reason is that the maintenance agreement is cheaper than the upgrade price so I save money. I don't know about you but saving money is pretty compelling to me. Adobe left that part out. The subscription is the exact same price as an annual upgrade so where is the benefit to the customer? There is no benefit for Adobe's customers. Just the threat of being out of a job if you can't afford to pay for your tools every month.

You see the maintenance agreement is a good deal for everyone. I, as a customer, get so save money and TechSmith, as a vendor, gets a steady stream of income. My maintenance agreement gets me a better quality of service when I have a problem. Adobe's subscription model doesn't have any better service. Like I said, there is absolutely no benefit for the customer in Adobe's model. It only benefits Adobe.

> "how do the software vendors maintain an income stream?"

By innovating! By creating new features that customer actually want. How about that for a way to stay in business; actually offering something that some wants to buy! What a novel idea!!! ;-) This is not a charity... it's business. If you want to stay in business you need to bring your customer business value that they are willing to pay for without you holding their tools for ransom.

What if car manufacturers had the same attitude. Instead of creating cars with new features that make you want to buy them, they all decided that no one can buy a car anymore. Everyone must lease their car and have a car payment every month forever. Every once in a while they'll add a new features to their car that you may or may not need. Who's ready to sign up? That's what Adobe is doing. They have given up on trying to build compelling products that customer actually want, and have instead chosen to use their industry dominance to force everyone to pay for their products every month whether they add features that customers want or not. And everyone who is paying them is encouraging this behavior!!!!

~jr

>They have given up on trying to build compelling products that customer actually want

JR, I think Adobe is still innovating and I am satisfied with the new features/products added to 2014cc. However, their SaaS model with no step down option creates exactly the perception you note above. And in the marketplace, perception is reality.

/jerry

" I think Adobe is still innovating"

Yes but if the innovation is not useful, then it becomes mere bloat. Why pay for that if you don't need it?

I have several programs that I have not upgraded because the new features are not useful to me.

i still have ps 7 on a laptop since it works just as well as cs6 for doing the basics, and a lot quicker too ;-)

<<Anyone else who's running a mixed environment of Vegas and Adobe Apps run into a similar situation?>>

YES. Several times in the company and twice for me personally. We're signed up through a VAR and they took care of the issue immediately with our IT folks.

Fortunately for me the timing was merely inconvenient and the resolution was very quick.

Yes PeterDuke - my valid license of PPro CS6 is suppose to be licensed as you stated, but apparently it needs to phone home and I disabled that feature on my computers (disconnected from the internet). I'm slowly warming up to Vegas again after a 3+ year hiatus. Now that Resolve Lite is out, I can consider my options for color grading although I'm not trilled with not having Colorista available to me in Vegas for quick projects. Then again, sending to Resolve should take care of that - hopefully.

Another of my concerns is usable intermediates: Is Cineform still viable in Vegas (read - stable)? I'm not willing to deal with DNxHD and the gamma shifts that take place while transcoding any longer.