For me, the final straw is to state that "I can support what I allege, you cannot." It is not just the fact that this is insulting, or that it has the same tone of the schoolyard insult, that makes me give up. Instead, since I provide links and citations for everything I post, making such a statement is prima facie evidence of a mind that isn't understanding what it sees. Almost by definition, irrationality cannot be a party to debate, and therefore I choose to quit.
========
Look at your response to my second post. It was insulting without any provocation.
Show me the evidence of what you allege. You haven't. You don't provide the links. When it comes to the media you are dead wrong and I can provide countless examples to prove it. You cannot. You tried it once and it was unconvincing. I don't understand what would motivate them to do anything other than cover for the people who feed them. There are only five corporations that control all of the media. No rational person would think that these conglomerates would promote "free thought" when it could cost them money. A breakup of the conglomerates is what is necessary, but the FCC seeks to relax media ownership rules every chance they get. And they hide it in other legislation usually defense of homeland security legislation so that it would be political suicide to vote against it. Before Reagan spearheaded this perverse tactic there were over 50 independent media corporations controlling the media. Now there are Five. Common sense should dictate the truth not common "myth" about the "liberal media" which is nothing more than a self-serving label to hide an agenda that does a disservice to the public. The media determines who people vote for. Their lobbying efforts are mind boggling. And their efforts to fight against re-regulation are intense with Time Warner (parent corporation to CNN) heading the list.

John

If sources need to have a historically conservative bias for you to consider them potentially honest, john, here you go ...

Putting the words "bias" and "honest" in the same sentence is certainly provocative. Kind of like "military intelligence," "media objectivity," "compassionate conservative" (I put that in for a few on this forum).

Yes, yes, the Republicans and the Democrats hate each other.

What does any of this have to do with helping the victims of the Katrina disaster? (Which was the original topic of this thread.) It's time for Sony to pull the plug on this thread.

John

Actually, what suprises me is that Sony has allowed this post to continue. My theory is that V6 has been so poorly written that they are happy to have these OT subjects to distract people from the real problems. This is my theory, I could be wrong. After all, we should be discussing Sony Vegas and not OT stuff.

BTW, I take no personal offense to anything that has said to me from anyone here and I mean no offense (although I'm sure I offended pmasters). Actually, I like a scuffle now and then. But, we should be discussing VEGAS.

I'm done on this thread. I won't change any minds and none of you will change mine. We have a stalemate.

Good day and Cheers to you too Liam.

sn

Let's take an example here of the current media spin that the public is "split " regarding Bush's response to Katrina. The media is now touting a recent Wash Post/ABC poll that claims 46 percent approve and 47 percent disapprove of Bush's handling of Katrina.
What both the Washington Post and ABC failed to state was that it was a poll of only 501 respondents taken on the FRIDAY NIGHT of the Labor Day Weekend. 1000 to 1200 respondents is the norm for a national poll and typically the polls are intentionally NOT conducted on Fridays or Saturdays, especially on a night when even MORE people were unlikely to be home. The details are spelled out here and here. The margin of error for this poll is so great that it should not have been printed yet both the Washington post and ABC decided to make false political points with the poll.
"The survey also found that Americans were sharply divided over the performance of Bush and local, state and federal governments in the aftermath of Monday's storm. Slightly less than half -- 46 percent -- approve of the way Bush has handled relief efforts while 47 percent disapprove, a result that might offer some cheer to beleaguered White House staffers who feared a stronger negative reaction."
Wash Post - Sept 4, 2005

"Poll: Bush Not Taking Brunt of Katrina CriticismHurricane Preparedness Is Faulted; Fewer Blame Bush for Problems "
ABC news - Sept 4, 2005

John

To it's credit, MSNBC has done the most remarkable job trying to connect missing people with their families from the beginning. They have also made a concerted effort to direct help to the right places from the beginning. The others followed suit later.

>Instead, they have learned they are going to be community-relations officers for FEMA, shuffled throughout the Gulf Coast region to disseminate fliers and a phone number: 1-800-621-FEMA.

A buddy of mine's daughter is part of the New Orleans police force. She is currently assigned to guard a casino boat in the middle of Lake Ponchartrain. This isn't BS, she called him, that's where she is.

And the classic here: A 113 bed mobile convoy of medical workers, costing millions and paid for by the Homeland Security group, stuck in Baton Rouge and still waiting for permission to get involved.

BTW, for our international readers, www.cnn.com has a good collection of video clips worth watching. I can't link to a url, since they force you to watch a commercial via javascript, but I was particularly impressed with Sean Penn's appearance a couple of days ago.

You all will like this I am sure. Sorry if it is really long:

One guy has been there all along and has maintained an online journal website of photos he and his friends took , comments by people there, plus their own rescue assistance efforts. He has been using a generator for power.
Some of the photos are amazing and many of you will appreciate them and the efforts of this guy. He is at www.mgno.com.

Here is an excerpt from his journal:

Thursday, September 1st, 2005

Time Event
12:11a You Want News?
New Orleans Police Department Status: The situation for the NOPD is critical. This is firsthand information I have from an NOPD officer we're giving shelter to. Their command and control infrastructure is shot. They have limited to no communication whatsoever. He didn't even know the city was under martial law until we told him! His precinct (5th Precinct) is under water! UNDER WATER -- every vehicle under water. They had to commander moving trucks like Ryder and UHaul to get around. The coroner's office is shut down so bodies are being covered in leaves at best or left where they lie at worst.

They don't even know their own rules of engagement. He says the force is impotent right now. They have no idea what's going on, no coordination, virtually no comms, etc. the National Guard is gonna air drop a radio system for them with 200 radios? They are getting very little direction.

The 3rd District bugged out to Baton Rouge because they flooded out.

His quote: "It's a zoo."

More first hand information direct from him shortly. He's trying to recover.

I am not trying to be an alarmist, but until we get a military presence of signicance in the city, the roving gangs of thugs own the streets.
(79 Comments | Comment on this)
12:35a Outpost Crystal's Police Officer
More from the Police Officer. I'm typing as fast as i can while he talks to us:
He's only hearing bits and pieces. The people in the city are shooting at the police. They're upset that they're not getting help quickly enough. The fireman keep calling because they're under fire. He doesn't understand why the people are shooting at the rescuers. Here it is 5 days ago the Mayor said get out of town and nobody went and now they're pissed.

The National Guard was at the Hilton, but now the Hilton is evacuated. When they said the CBD was gonna get 6 feet of water, it seems like everyone evacuated.

He turned the corner onto Canal Street and it looked like a flea market. People breaking into every store, going to the neutral gound (median) and trading and selling everything.

They broke into Winn Dixie Monday Night. Do they steal food? No. Cigarettes and liquor. Store was a mess. All the meats were going to waste so the districts went over there to salvage food for officers. Many cops have been eating MREs.

The Iberville Housing Projects got pissed off because the police started to "shop" after they kicked out looters. Then they started shooting at cops. When the cops left, the looters looted everything. There's probably not a grocery left in this city.

Over 30 officers have quit over the last 3 days. Out of 160 officers in his district maybe 55 or 60 are working. He hasn't seen several since Sunday. HQ is closed, evacuated. No phones to contact them.

"HQ, be advised, we're going 10 7."

"Ok, y'all coming back on???"

"We don't know."


1:43a New Pictures Up
http://sigmund.biz/kat/index.html
(34 Comments | Comment on this)
2:15a Getting Some Rest
It's been a very long day. I'm going to crash for a bit and try to get 5 hours or so of sleep. I apologize again that I cannot respond to each IM. I am trying. We've got that IRC channel going and I'll try to get in there for a while later in the day.

I am going to debrief the police officer completely in the morning. He was utterly fatigued, thirsty, and wanted to find out what the hell was really going on.

Security has become a major concern now, because the NOPD is ineffective and the looters terrorists are roaming the streets. Word is now that they're lighting buildings on fire, but I can't confirm that. Anyway, we have to run guard shifts and patrol and it limits our downtime.

It is a zoo out there though, make no mistake. It's the wild kingdom. It's Lord of the Flies. That doesn't mean there's murder on every street corner. But what it does mean is that the rule of law has collapsed, that there is no order, and that property rights cannot and are not being enforced. Anyone who is on the streets is in immediate danger of being robbed and killed. It's that bad.

I will be back on around 0700 or so I think.

Team SOTI signing off. Will leave the cam on.
(134 Comments | Comment on this)
8:26a I'm Awake
Best night sleep I've had so far. Woke up without back pain for the first time since before this thing started. I've been sleeping on the carpet, and that's a very thin layer covering the hard concrete. It takes about 3 days to get accustomed to sleeping on concrete -- I know that from my my days of sleeping on asphalt when the army couldn't provide better. I need to perform personal hygiene in a little bit, but I wanted to check in first and let everyone know that Outpost Crystal is still a viable and functioning camp of civilization in the face of the lawless barbarian hordes who threaten at all times to turn what's left of New Orleans into the war of all against all. It's like Mogadishu out there, but we're in a fixed defensive position and prepared.

I've got some office maintenance stuff to do here before I clean up.

Back in a few.
(140 Comments | Comment on this)
9:36a Diesel Situation
We have permission from the City and from FEMA to truck in diesel. We have the ability to take on 1300-1500 more gallons of diesel fuel. If you or anyone you know is capable of bringing us fuel, we will pay for it. It would be best if the delivery truck could navigate a parking garage, otherwise the unloading will be hours -- no idea how long it could take.

Thanks in advance,

Michael
(135 Comments | Comment on this)
10:12a Update and Thanks
1. There is a mass exodus for the Mississippi River Bridges (Crescent City Connection) from the CBD. We are not sure what's going on, but we are assuming until we hear differently that people are fleeing the city. So if you're watching the feeds, that's what you're seeing -- throngs of people moving toward the bridges.

2. Cannot confirm any of the following: Superdome fire, 2 shot police officers this morning. We hear all kinds of stuff, but no way to verify those.

3. Can confirm: The National Guard, FEMA, the NOPD, and City authorities DO NOT have the city under control. There are live radio feeds for the National Guard comms and NOPD comms which have been circulating the web, and you can listen to the chaos and disarray for yourselves. I am not going to post the links, but I'm sure others have and will. I doubt the government's ability to reestablish order without a full active duty military presence to crush the mob mentality. This of course will mean no civil rights and everyone being treated equally -- as a criminal. Rock | Hard Place.

4. I'm happy to report that my parents are accounted for. My mother made it out to Jackson, Mississippi, and my father, the only person more strong-willed than myself, is still in Harahan, healthy but refusing to leave. Mounting a rescue operation to bring him into the Outpost Crystal is a very low priority mission at this point. He's gonna have to tough it out for the time being. For him to read later, when this is all over: "Dad, I love you. I have to say it -- I told you so." Stubborn guy, my dad.

5. More pics coming soon.

More later.
(71 Comments | Comment on this)
10:27a We've got fuel coming in NOW. Going down stairs now.

back soon
(302 Comments | Comment on this)
11:50a Update
My first tactical mistake. We were unprepared to accept the fuel when it arrived. The fuel arrived way too soon for us and we did not have all the empty drums down one ground floor when they got here. The driver had other deliveries to make, so rather than waste his time, I told him we'd recoordinate and be ready for him later today or tomorrow.

That's the bad news. Here's the worse news:

All of our providers are dropping. We're down to one. We have enough fuel to keep us powered for a long time, but we could lose internet access soon if our last provider drops.

So I guess what I'm saying is that any moment could be my last moment online. If we do lose internet, Outpost Crystal might have to be abandoned by all but Sig and Myself. I've got to get Crystal out of here safely and relocated to someplace out of this state. I'm working on escape routes now.

Calling any and all Intercosmos and Directnic employees. We need you to contact Donnie in email and on ICQ ASAP.

Situtation is critical.

I'm not leaving, so stop asking. I'm staying. I am staying until this sh**storm has blown itself out. Period. End of discussion.

Now for some updates:

1. Been too busy to debrief the police officer, so that will come later. Low priority now.

2. Buses loading people up on Camp Street to take refugees to Dallas, or so the word on the street (literally) is.

3. Dead bodies everywhere: convention center, down camp street, all over.

4. National Guard shoving water off the backs of trucks. They're just pushing it off without stopping, people don't even know it's there at first -- they drop it on the side in debris, there's no sign or distribution point -- people are scared to go near it at first, because the drop points are guarded by troops or federal agents with assault rifles who don't let people come near them, which scares people off. It is a mess. When people actually get to the water, they are in such a rush to get it that one family left their small child behind and forget about her until Sig carried him back to the family.

5. Lots of pics coming soon when Sig has time to update.

......continued.

"This is my theory, I could be wrong. After all, we should be discussing Sony Vegas and not OT stuff."

Then why continue posting to a thread that you think shouldnt be here?

"BTW, I take no personal offense to anything that has said to me from anyone here and I mean no offense (although I'm sure I offended pmasters). Actually, I like a scuffle now and then. But, we should be discussing VEGAS."

Hopefully NO ONE is trying to offend anyone, surely thats not my intention here at all and I apologize if anyone, including Beer feels that way. Also, I am not offended by anything that anyone has to say here. Believe it or not, I respect everyone's opinions even if they differ from my own. The only person who came close was Winrock by its all water on a ducks back, it just rolls off.

One thing you said that hit the nail on the head is that no amount of discussion is going to change what anyone thinks. But through discussion, we ALL learn different views which believe it or not, will influence they way we present our media to others.

But you have to admit, threads like these beat the heck out of threads like "why cant I open my divx file in Vegas" especially when it has been discussed to death on here.

Lastly, I love discussing these types of issues with everyone here. It may not be Vegas but I dont post on other web boards and honestly, I am curious as to what fellow editors think of what goes on in todays world.

You're being the typical American, Pmasters. Playing the Blame Game.

Dgates, try all you want my friend, youre not going to bait me. My suggestion to you is to get off your ass instead of talking out of it and do something then there will be nothing to "cry" about.

Better yet, since the waters are going down, start watching the body count rise. How you can look at what those people went through and then sit there and call people cry babies who outraged by it?

Maybe youre the typical American, thoughtless, cruel, without an ounce of compassion for those struck by disaster.

I am glad you love turning this tragedy into a little novelty. Sound familiar?

I hit a raw nerve. Cool.

How about you stop using the tragedy as your political soapbox?

No raw nerve, I just dont care too much for someone who has no compassion for the loss of life and tragedy that these people are enduring. Ive been there buddy, I know what I am talking about. I was lucky in that it could have been much much worse for us.

But hey, maybe the next disaster can claim you and your loved ones and someone can say its no big deal and to stop crying about it. Funny when the shoes on the other foot.

I promise you this though, you may think its cool striking a nerve but I PROMISE you would not have the balls to say it to my face. Its funny the strength, courage, and wit people posess when they have an internet connection and a keyboard seperating you.

The government didn't secretly flood Louisiana and Mississippi, hurricane Katrina did. Maybe you heard of it?

You'd move to Oklahoma and whine about the feds not protecting you from tornados.

No, the government didnt flood those states, but it has certainly funnelled cash from tax payers to all sorts of stupid ideas, the latest being Iraq while its own people dont have shelter or shoes or transportation.

If 25% of the NO population wasn't in poverty and were given one month of war funding to Iraq (thats $4 billion dollars for those who don't keep track), then I bet they could have afforded a bus ticket or cab ride out of the city. Thats what has been exposed here. In fact the war has been going on for 2 years and people continue to buy that BS that its making anyone safer. There could have been a $4 billion dollar cash infusion into every state in the union at least 1 time in 24 months.

Oh ok. So those people pay taxes and arent afforded the rights to protection, food, and medical? But those that were killed on 9/11 are?

Face it, its not an election year unlike last year. Once it was issued as a Federal Disaster, it became their responsbility. Do you understand that word? I know it may be hard because it contains more than one syllable but take your time and sound it out. Because this administration has NEVER taken it for anything they have done.

Could the government have prevented the hurricane? No. But they could have helped prevent some of the damage and prevented the loss of life in the ealry hours.

Some moron military guy spoke this morning and said that the Tuesday after the cane hit, the newspaper read "New Orleans Dodged the Bullet." so they started to divert their plan and resources elsewhere.

Also, why did it take W 7 days to tour a Federal Disaster area? The cold hard fact is that people died due to the slow reaction of the administration and some of them could have been saved but because of the slow reaction to help those in need died needlessly. Perhaps should have told him that NO had WMD. Then he would have been all over it.

Believe it or not, I'm right there with you on Iraq. A total waste. Like all those pet projects of congressmen that kept funds from going to shore up the levees in New Orleans.

But with NO, you have to realize that not everything can be handled properly after such a huge disaster. We're always looking for a fall guy.

DGates, do you think this response would be just as slow if it were a terror attack? One thing we and terrorists have seen is that we havent learned how to handle emergency situations in four years.

pmasters,

why not take your angry, world craps in your every direction attitude offline. Every stinkin' time something like this happens, you're the victim. This is a horrible, tragic event. Rather than bicker on who's fault it is, donate some time or money and deal with your agenda somewhere else. This is a video software forum, not the Hurricane Katrina forum. Can we please kill this and move on?

Mike

You know....It saddens me that Katrina has brought out the worst in some humans during the aftermath. It saddens me more to see people who normally are friends displayed at their worst in this community.
No, I don't believe the victims of the hurricane will read these later and feel support. That's just ludicrous.

Howzabout this...
I'll donate 1.00 for every positive post in this thread up, and post a Paypal statement to prove it. Anyone else wanna donate? Call it a challenge. I'll donate in the name of the Vegas community, up to $500.00.
Posts like Dave's/Filmy's are very useful and helpful. Posts like some of the ones in this thread are just sad.

Any takers? Either way, it would sure be nice to see the vitriol drain from this thread like the waters of New Orleans will surely be drained.

FWIW, I've also donated time at the Winter Quarters here in Utah, we received nearly 1000 refugees thus far. Gotta be weird for people from the warm days/nights of NO with its accompanying humidity, being in the desert where it's cold at night, hot during the day, and no humidity at all. :-)

"why not take your angry, world craps in your every direction attitude offline. Every stinkin' time something like this happens, you're the victim. This is a horrible, tragic event. Rather than bicker on who's fault it is, donate some time or money and deal with your agenda somewhere else.


Please oh please tell me where I am the victim in this? I am talking about the people down there in New Orleans who are dying. I never claimed I was a victim of this storm. I simply feel a lot of compassion because of the hurricanes we suffered through last year so I have an inkling of what they are going through. I thought you would be smart enough to understand that but you have proven otherwise.

As for doing something about making a difference, I have done just that. I have donated what money I could and helped coordinate supply drops in my area. I would like to do more but I am not in a position to go down there and help. You know, for a school teacher, one would think you would have more compassion to those that have died because of the tragedy. And it does matter who's fault it is. If we dont figure out where everything broke down then there is no way we can be prepared for this type of thing if it happens again.

Dont like the thread? Dont read it and dont contribute to it. Others seemt o have no problem discussing it. Bury your head in the sand because it doesnt affect you.

"This is a video software forum, not the Hurricane Katrina forum. Can we please kill this and move on?"


Its a thread, not a forum. You act is if the front page is just full of threads on it. If you dont the thread or any of the messages in it, simply do not read it. Its really easy to tell the people who live nowhere near a coast when these types of things come up. But I suppose if I was selling my computer for sale on this Video Editing forum then that would be ok then? Afterall, you said this is a video software forum, not a sales forum.

Spot,

I am sure I have done my fair share of harm in this thread. What I cant understand is why some of us cant seem to realize that others have opinions that differ from our own. That happens in a community.

As I posted above, I respect everyones opinion on this even if it is different than mine. I do let myself get sucked in to pissing contests I believe the reason why it brings out the worst in us is because it is so tragic. Just from the flyovers they show on TV are horrific. Experiencing the storms (not nearly the same devastation and death) makes some of us identify more with the victims in this. We have started seeing some of the refugees up here as well.

I can't match your donation but I can sure kick in $50. Hopefully will do the same as well.

Someone seems to be blowing a lot of hot air in this thread, stomping their feet up and down. Seems like a lot of wasted energy focused in the wrong direction, but unfortunately it seems to be the only outlet of life someone has. So the point I've gotten from reading all this blabber is that everyone is a moron, it's always someone else to blame, someone from the outside looking in always seems to have the right answers the way something should have been done, while the world is all wrong. I think someone else came up with a proverbial question for this type of behavior. "if you're so smart, then why aren't you rich?" It becomes clear, why some people are destined to be failures when you see their true colors. Unfortunately for them the mirror is skewed too much that they can't see it for themselves.