Just curious though, have you tried to run Vegas 9 on Windows 98? Just wondering if it would indeed work.

.net isn't supported on '98 & .net 2 & 3 aren't on 2k, so most likely no, it wouldn't run. But if you got XP when it came out you could, in theory, be running it on the same hardware today & use vegas 9. Heck, I put XP on P2's. :D

I'm not sure why multi-family licensing deals are that important: any new comp comes with a license. You can get Windows 7 Home Premium, full OEM version, for under $300 for 3 copies. You just need to buy a set is all.

As for the driver issue, some companies don't want to waste the time updating things when they could sell you a new piece of hardware instead. I know I only got a new scanner because my old one wouldn't work on XP, but it did on 2K no problem. But that scanner was ~8 years old at the time. For $50 I could get a better one, with USB (not parallel), smaller.

I just research before I upgrade so I don't say "aww man, now I need to spend another $300 to get my stuff running".

I have 2 printers that were bought 8 and 6 years ago and I've been using them on XP. My wife just got a new laptop with Win7. When I hooked up the newest printer Win 7 installed the drivers in 30 seconfs. When I hooked up the other printer (8 years old) Win 7 said "let me search the web". Took about a minute to install the drivers and both work fine on Win 7. I can't complain.

VanLazarus,

Yes for a short period of time, MS did offer a family price package.

Dave T2

They offer a family package for Office I think, don't they?

but the limit on the family stuff is no commercial use, period. I've read those EULA's.

"I'm not sure why multi-family licensing deals are that important: any new comp comes with a license."

I don't want to buy a new computer, I just want to upgrade the OS eventually. And to legally buy an OEM version, you need to buy a new computer, although many companies fudge the "hardware" requirement some.

As for the driver issue, the only reason they needed to be updated was because MS changed stuff in XP. Don't you guys remember the screaming and gnashing of teeth when XP came out and people started discovering that their hardware didn't work anymore. It was a big deal at the time. I obviously don't understand how OS's work as far as drivers, but did XP make my printer print any better? No. Can newer printers print better? Yes, but not because of anything MS did.

I will eventually upgrade and pay the money. But I don't see the harm in wanting discount pricing on multiple purchases. Many companies offer this type of pricing. Even our company gives you money breaks on dubs, editing and other products and services if bought in quantities.

Dave T2

I don't want to buy a new computer, I just want to upgrade the OS eventually. And to legally buy an OEM version, you need to buy a new computer, although many companies fudge the "hardware" requirement some.

I took a look @ the Mac Family Upgrades: you still can't use it commercially (which means you can't even run a home business with it) so you can't edit for people either meaning you're still getting the more expensive update. I'm sure that also legally means a fully updated copy on a new Mac is now downgraded to non-commercial use. Plus you still need an existing computer with Leopard installed on it. Also there is no upgrade from previous Mac OS X versions on Apple's website so, in a case where you don't want to buy new computers, you're stuck if you don't have the same OS @ a lower version. MS allows you to upgrade XP or Vista, two iterations back.

Not all OEM software requires hardware any more either. MS doesn't offer tech support on their OEM software, that's how they offer it so cheap. And you can use them commercially too. Just like the education limitations, software companies can set that any way they want.

so Apple's OS is cheaper if you use it for typing, browsing the net, etc. but then why bother upgrading unless you're FORCED to? Notice there's no full version of Snow Leopard. So they won't sell you full versions you can install on any Mac you want, you need to pay for updates. MS doesn't make you pay for service packs which are the same thing.

Every product has their groupies and they exhibit behavior patterns that are an enigma to me.

Examples:

Blu-Ray vs HD DVD

PC vs Mac

Vegas vs Final Cut vs Avid vs Premier vs Edius

Pro Tools vs Sonar vs Cubase vs Acid

and on and on

In the end, no product is perfect and most of us learn the workarounds. A few switch if it frustrates them enough. An even smaller number of people become groupies for the product. Unfortunately, they tend to be difficult to discuss real concerns with because they tend to blame the non-groupies for the problems.

John

EDIT: The comments are NOT aimed any any forum members in particular. It's simply a behavioral observation I have seen across many forums of all types.

HappyFriar,

I can see you are pretty passionate about this. I don't want a Mac. I haven't followed their upgrade paths and Eulas, I have just seen their published prices.

And yes, OEM Windows is required to be sold with Hardware (computer).

http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/4/A/44ACE547-6E38-4CA2-87A0-CE16D94AECBA/OEM-Licensing-For-Customers.pdf

LIke I said though, I can still wish for quantiy pricing.

Dave T2

They sold more Android phones in the first quarter than iPhones...

No they didn't. At least there is no information to support that statement.

The NPD study numbers measured retail through Best Buy and Wal-Mart, leaving out Apple stores and other outlets where massive numbers of phones are sold.

The current iPhone 3GS is a year old, that's an eternity for mobile phones where things are evolving so quickly.

The next iPhone model is expected June 7, less than 3 weeks away. A kind of battery that no one else has (that lasts at least twice as long per weight and bulk as any other phone), multi-tasking, no worry about malware, HD video shooting, a new kind of screen with not just more pixels, Apple A4 CPU with monster performance at low battery consumption, high res camera on the back with a flash, video chat camera on the front, secondary mic for noise cancellation, and a lot more.

Google just stopped selling Androids because they didn't want to support end users, and the carriers have often refused to provide OS updates for their various incompatible models.

Manufacturing sources in Taiwan say Apple ordered 24 million of the new iPhones to sell over the next six months.

I suspect Apple will live :O).

And the iPad has been a monster hit with people who just want to do what they want to do (web surfing, e-mail, letters, etc.) instead of dealing with the intricacies of file systems, 3rd party virus/worm/spyware protection, or Windows rot (a gradual degradation of performance that is fixable only through a reinstall of the OS).

I have two Windows workstations and one PC that have been in daily use for 2-4 years, and are now close to unusable and need a reinstall. No viruses/worms/spyware ever, regular Windows updates (which thankfully aren't daily anymore), and they have been defragged when needed, but the performance has become unbearable and strange things are happening on my #1 Vegas workstation.

This is all Windows XP, so maybe it's time to install my "1.0" Win 7 Pro disk on the workstation at least (for the others, there is no upgrade path from XP, so it's very pricey).

"Manufacturing sources in Taiwan say Apple ordered 24 million" AS you said earlier, there is no proof only "rumors". and the actual manufacturer, Foxconn, is not talking. Plus the iPhone4 looks like a knock-off product of the better EVO! ;-)

The Sony PSP2 design team,(I hear), is wondering how their new display screen with touch which has been in the field testing ended up on the iPhone4, especially since they designed it from ground-up. Being build in China maybe not protect Apple from Sony sueing.

HTC is wondering why the FTC and FCC has taken over 3 months with actual working EVO models in hand, to approved the EVO's paperwork and design..... but more importantly, why were Apple engineers and lawyers reviewing the HTC's EVO documents before the public was permitedt to review? More design "borrowing" from Apple? ;-)

Google never stated that, their original store was to push the mobile OS in the market place. Now, many carriers are carrying the Android OS and that was their goal. Apple spin claims that Android is dead as a marketing threat, funny, Apple spin claims their crushing RIM, ........... fourth, third place in volume is always 1st place in Apple/Happy land. ;-)

I know nothing about PSP2 or HTC's approvals, so I'll leave those rumors in your capable hands.

Funny you should mention RIM. Standard & Chartered bank just ordered 75,000 iPhones to replace their Blackberries. I'd be surprised if Apple had taken any kind of initiative to make that happen, as the financial industry has been pretty much 100% owned by RIM.

The nicest-looking Android phone (because it copied everything it could from the iPhone) is the HTC Incredible. eWeek reviewed it in yesterday's issue:

"Weak radios, Wi-Fi range 1/3 of iPhone, on CDMA another Verizon phone had 3 bars when the Incredible had no bars, FM radio with "very poor sensitivity," nearly impossible to select a highlighted web link, no Exchange task sync, the 8MP camera generated large image files that were no better than lower res camera phones because of a poor lens, etc."

eWeek's review summary: "nice effort."

Every phone is a compromise. You just have to choose which compromise you like best.

Will this bickering over PC vs Mac never end?
They are computers.
It's kind of tiresome.
They do pretty much the same things.
Everyone is entitled to a preference, whether it be cars or computers.
There is no right and no wrong.
Let's find something else to slam.
Apples getting pretty bruised!

Everyone is entitled to a preference, whether it be cars or computers.

That's why I said, "You just have to choose which compromise you like best."

Apples getting pretty bruised!

Better Apple than Windows users...

I'm just pissed off about the bloat, and in the case of Windows I don't have any way to protect myself.

Contrast that with the other steaming code pile that is Adobe's Creative Suite, where it is possible to be selective about the apps you use, as it isn't all integrated.

(I'm just beginning to use CS5 and hope that it will be better than CS4 :O).

"I have two Windows workstations and one PC that have been in daily use for 2-4 years, and are now close to unusable and need a reinstall. No viruses/worms/spyware ever, regular Windows updates (which thankfully aren't daily anymore), and they have been defragged when needed, but the performance has become unbearable and strange things are happening on my #1 Vegas workstation."

Strange. I've never had these problems and I've been using PC's for many years. I would suggest operator error and further suggest a few how-to books built for those who aren't confident in computer technique.

"Strange" Not really for an Apple Drone! ;-) without direct Apple instructions, most Apple drones just stare a blank PC screens till their "fixed" Apple product is returned..... not fixed! ;-)

Who in their right mind would permit big stock trades or banking transactions on a small touchscreen! .............. wasn't that wallstreet trader,three weeks ago or so, using an iPhone when he type Billion for instead a million on the trade text.... ;-)

I would suggest operator error and further suggest a few how-to books built for those who aren't confident in computer technique.

Umm, my confidence (such as it is) comes from having worked professionally with computers for 39 years, having used e-mail for 38 years, online user forums for 36 years, the internet professionally for 25 years (i.e. started using it well before the web), used and supported a lot of Windows systems since V2.0, and I am still a goto guy for senior tech support pros when they don't know what to do.

So the fact that you have not had these problems makes me wonder if you're in the category of those who say Brand X hard drives are bad because one of your third cousins twice removed once had a problem with one of them.

I think I'll trust my education and experience as I fix these machines.

(My Vegas workstation turned out to have a bad Quadro FX graphics card, glad it's under extended warranty from HP.)

"I think I'll trust my education and experience as I fix these machines"

If you've "worked professionally with computers for 39 years" then how come you have to re-install everything??? You'd figure a 39 year veteran would know about such things as disk imaging. It should be a slice of pie and 15 minutes of your time to reinstall your disk image.

But yes, yes, you're trying to emphasize a particular point here, I know. So let's get down to the heart of the issue: Computer maintenance and the fact that you're trying to say that macs don't require maintenance, which of course is more mac user denial. What has me scratching my head is why people are out there creating mac maintenance programs..... when they're not needed???



Do a search on Mac maintenance and you'll find tons more articles like this.
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
http://www.macworld.com/article/133684/2008/06/maintenance_intro.html

So as long as Skynet runs on a PC or Mac all Jon Connors has to do is wait for the OS to become corrupt. (May poor attempt at humor).

Chad

If you've "worked professionally with computers for 39 years" then how come you have to re-install everything?

So you have never had a drive go bad slowly, and then you extrapolate that to the world?

It should be a slice of pie and 15 minutes of your time to reinstall your disk image.

I do have disk images as well as daily online backups (Iron Mountain/Mozy Pro), but it seems I have a lot more going on inside my machines, because 15 minutes won't do it by a long stretch, even if I thought that yesterday's image was OK, which is not the case. I have two alternating backup images, but it's slowly gotten to the point where I have to reinstall Windows and restore user data on a file basis.

Of course I also do have a drive with the workstation as delivered from HP, with just Vegas and MC added. But if I boot that up, I will have to be a PC attendant for maybe 24-48 hours while Windows adds years of updates, probably 500-600 updates in my case, with many of them requiring a manual reboot.

But don't worry, I'll call Best Buy and outsource my IT to the Geek Squad. They should be able to set up my systems properly, far beyond my humble understanding of these things.


you're trying to say that macs don't require maintenance

Where am I trying to say that? Show me.

I would say that they are not susceptible to Windows rot (LOL), and there is no equivalent problem.

They also don't need anti-virus software or very frequent OS updates, and they have a lot of time-saving features that Microsoft hasn't had the time or the understanding to copy yet (one of their OS product managers admitted publicly that they had OS X as their model for Windows 7).

Look, they're all just tools.

No reason for us to become tools also.

>>>I would say that they are not susceptible to Windows rot (LOL), and there is no equivalent problem. <<<

That's because OSX comes pre-rotted for you. Like all things Apple, papa Steve does it for you so you don't need to ask questions, just lube up and bend over ( isn't owning a Mac and asking questions a violation of Apple's EULA? )

I have personally never experienced any performance degradation on windows and I still have 2 XP installs that are 3 and 4 years old. They run exactly as they did when they were brand new and I can remember a single crash on each, that's 2 crashes in those combined 7 years. All I had to do was some research before buying and not installing crap on those machines.

If you do suffer performance degradation on windows it's probably your quicktime or iTunes installation to blame and guess who's behind those.

I'll leave your lube comment to the SCS "Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice" squad.

In really bad taste, imho.

I don't use iTunes on my Windows machines, so no issues there.

If you can do your video work without QuickTime, congratulations.

And I don't install more apps than I need, and only what has been proven solid by many professionals.

My needs are a bit more complicated than most, so I pay for that through greater maintenance costs.

"I would say that they are not susceptible to Windows rot (LOL), and there is no equivalent problem. "

You obviously didn't read the article i linked above.
Macs getting slow.... etc
Sounds about the same... so I would guess what we have here is yet another "Course Mac Fact" on our hands. Tell me, do you PERSONALLY make this stuff up, or are you just simply getting it from some other poor brainwashed soul?