"LOS ANGELES - Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. will offer next-generation DVDs in the HD DVD format and drop support for Blu-ray, further complicating the race between the competing technologies."
Yes I just mentioned that a short time ago in the other thread "blu ray vs hd dvd" It's all over the blu ray site as well as yahoo.com
According to the Paramount press release they are declaring the HD DVD technology a more "market ready technology".
If you're one of those believers that studios will win this then it's clear that this is a HUGE blow to blu ray
I however have always believed that this is EARLY in the game and ANYTHING can happen..... but then again, this more "market ready technology" statement that was made could become a real problem for BD.
Paramount and Dreamworks cited two reasons: "higher quality" and "cheaper to manufacture." The higher quality claim is nonsense, there is no practical difference in the quality between the two formats. In fact, BluRay is capable of higher bitrate video than HD-DVD, so it has the potential of looking ever-so-slightly better. HD-DVD is indeed cheaper to manufacture. As far as I'm concerned, this decision was purely economic. I'm still pulling for BluRay, but I currently don't own either.
I'm sitting here thinking about this... It will be interesting to see what Target and Blockbuster do. My guess is that they will have little choice but to reverse the decision that they made to go blu ray exclusive. This decision of Paramount's includes some pretty big movies.
Agreed, quality is the same, with Blu-Ray a bit better in some technical points.
However, HD-DVD has its good sides too:
1. No Region locking is supported (very important for me who is a European who lives in USA and one day will go back to Europe).
2. You can burn a *normal* DVD media with the HD-DVD filesystem/video and playback that HD-DVD. This is a lifesaver for those who do have an HD-DVD player, but not a burner! A normal DVD media can hold up to 30 minutes of 1080p HD-DVD video on it.
3. Cheaper to manufacture.
Overall, if you put together the three things above and compare it to Bluray's better technical side, the two formats are equal IMHO so any kind of "war" on forums is useless.
"Actually BD seem to have added this feature and Sony have a very simple to use burner to make the DVD directly from the memory stick out of their AVCHD camcorders."
Not QUITE the same... no editing... no disk authoring.
"Dual format Bluray and HD DVD! Dual format Bluray and HD DVD! Rah, Rah!" . . . I want dual format players to win. That is by far the best outcome.
Laurence, why would you want both? I'd much rather have just one, provided that that one can do everything. And as it stands now (well, including what's expected by the end of the year), both HD-DVD and BluRay are fully capable of supporting pre-recorded movies and us editors.
After the hassles of having to worry about whether clients had +R or -R, I wouldn't want to have to go through that again. I'd like to just be able to go into a store and buy blanks (or movies) and not have to worry about which player it's for. And combo players? WHY??? What's the point? How is that better than just one format that can do everything, like DVD did (+R and -R aside)?
Regardless, I don't think Paramount's news is any kind of death knell for BluRay, nor do I think it's going to have the positive impact on HD that many think it will. Remember, it specifically excludes Spielberg films (his only announced high-def film is CE3K on BluRay) and so far they haven't announced any big titles (unlike Fox and MGM). If they can't get a ton of HD exclusive titles out by this Christmas, it might be too late.
It's been said before, that the only company that Paramount's news is good for is Microsoft. And that's at our expense (as editors). When is Vegas on Linux coming out?
But hey, at least this was bigger news than Onkyo releasing an HD-DVD player. It's about time the HD-DVD camp had some actual news.
"But hey, at least this was bigger news than Onkyo releasing an HD-DVD player. It's about time the HD-DVD camp had some actual news."
Well I do have to admit, after NUMEROUS posts about HD DVD being at death's door and declaring BD the winner "before Christmas", you're doing a great job at keeping a stiff upper lip. ;)
We'll see what happens though... I have maintained (and still do) that this war is FAR from over. The question is are we going to see a few more things crumble away..... Blockbusters arrangement for one. I don't see how they're going to be able to get away with a BD only market now.
"Ummm, because some movies will be on HD DVD and some will be on BD. Why would anyone want to limit themselves to just one or the other?"
And this is where the BD people shoot themselves in the foot... either boycott hi def all together and go back to SD, or go dual format.
I think this "format war" is different than DVD-R vs. DVD+R because charging a client to burn separate versions (BD and HD-DVD) would clearly be justifiable.
The Authoring part can be easy to hard --depending on client needs. I wouldn't mind making extra cash for clients that need BOTH HD versions :)
And if there were Authoring software that allowed you to Author ONCE, and output SD, BD, HD-DVD -- that would be pretty cool. Of course, you would lose features depending on the format, but at least the basic menu with a Title and/or Chapter list...
"and so far they haven't announced any big titles (unlike Fox and MGM). If they can't get a ton of HD exclusive titles out by this Christmas, it might be too late."
2 HUGE movies... Shrek and Transformers.... are coming out exclusive to HD DVD. There will be more to come. The typical response on other forums after hearing of these 2 movies alone going HD DVD has been:
'Nice knowing you all, I am off to go get an HD-DVD player." ( From the AVS forum)
its this type of garbage bickering which is slowing the publics acceptance of any or both formats.. in turn, making it harder for us to decide on which to invest in as producers and suppliers, in turn making it harder for us to evolve our products to a HD delivery format.
Its an absolute joke, I jsut wish theyde get over it and call it a truse and jsut get on with delivering the products and ENTICE the public to upgrade to HD... irrespective of the format..
as it stands, this sort of bickering does nothing for the industry and stunts the growth of the aaceptance of HD in the consumer home. In turn, what we create as producers in HD, is much harder to sell..
Its easier to sell BD to a user who has a PS3 and a HD panel.. but try sell HD to someone whos still using a 80cm CRT TV and its like trying to selll ice to eskimos.. future proof or not, until the formats is widely available, people wont have a clue
"Its an absolute joke, I jsut wish theyde get over it and call it a truse and jsut get on with delivering the products and ENTICE the public to upgrade to HD... irrespective of the format.."
And to a certain extent I agree with you. On the other hand, this is business and not only are there are HUGE dollars being invested on both sides... but a lot of side companies have been sucked into this.. Pioneer, Samsung, Blockbusters, Target.... etc. This has become a MASSIVE and expensive machine that most likely won't stop until somebody has run out of money, favors, IOU's and any other what have you's.
"Laurence, why would you want both?"
Simple, because Bluray is the better large scale release format and HD DVD is the better small scale release format.
Bluray has more storage and is more robust. It can handle a higher bitrate for better image quality (although the difference is probably just overkill). Bluray really makes sense in a commercial release format.
HD DVD on the other hand is WAY EASIER for us little guys. You can burn up to a twenty minute project on a regular DVD-R, up to a 40 minute project on a dual layer DVD+R, and if you need up to 80 minutes, HD DVD-R is about five dollars a disc cheaper than BD-R. A single layer BD-R is simply overkill for almost everything and that extra storage costs lots of money even when you aren't using it.
I want dual format because that would let me buy either format for commercial releases, and let me do my own releases on the easy, cheap and every bit as high quality 3x DVD or HD DVD-R format.
Think of it, a Bluray player already reads regular DVDs which are really close to HD DVDs. It seems like it would be incredibly simple for a Bluray player design to be modified so that it could read HD DVDs as well. There is no reason why a player should not be able to handle both formats equally well. Yeah it might cost ten dollars or so more to license both technologies, but it really should be easy.
"Yeah it might cost ten dollars or so more to license both technologies, but it really should be easy."
Don't think that's in the cards. Something funny is going on with Sony and burning/disk authoring.
This is b y no means fact, and is just my PURE opinion, but it's my belief that Sony is trying to set up, or has set up some sort of dual licensing system... For a small fee, software companies can set up to burn BDAV, and for a MUCH larger fee they can do BDMV. I say this merely because It's the only thing I can think of that explains what happened to Ulead and their movie factory 5 BDMV burning cancellation. DVDit on the other hand CAN burn BDMV but there is a whopping price difference between dvdit and ulead
This has even hit my local newspaper! (The Winnipeg Free Press) I think I have seen MINOR mention of the HD wars in my local paper once last year.
According to the article "HD DVD players outsold Blu Ray players nearly 2:1 in the second quarter". The first thing you see when looking at the article is a big pie chart indicating HD DVD with 61% market share for players, blu ray with 36%, and dual players with 3%.
It also mentions that xbox 360 sold 5.8 million, the add on 160,000, and the PS3 at 1.5 million
It does state that although hd dvd PLAYERS have a bigger market share, the blu ray players added in with the PS3 beats the hd dvd total. But then it goes on to say:
"Rob Moore, President Paramount Worldwide Distribution said market data shows that people who own gaming consoles buy fewer movies than those who invest in movie only players"
It also mentions Paramount's view that HD DVD has better quality, and is cheaper overall for the consumer.
Having both types of players, I must say, that while the technology may be different, from an end user point of view, they are essentially identical. As an end user, I see no difference in the quality of the video or the viewing experience whatsoever. Yeah the bonus material might be a little different, but who really cares about that!? All this talk about one format being better than the other is kind of like guys discussing which identical twin is prettier.
The only place where the difference really matters to me is in the practicality of writing discs for the different players. As a consumer of commercial content, it really is a wash as far as I can see.
It also mentions Paramount's view that HD DVD has better quality, and is cheaper overall for the consumer.That statement right there nails their true bias opinion to actually push HD-DVD to their movies. You know as well as anyone on this forum the videos are hd-mpeg2 and the quality lies in the encoder not the media. So that statement is just to brainwash the public. Technically Blu-Ray can hold more data therefore sustain video at higher bit-rates producing better quality.
His statement only proves the politics & lies involved in this stupid race. It's actually sad when you think about it. Wonder how much stock they own in Toshiba. By the time the debate is over we will be able to get the movies in SD format on a chip or card and buy a player that has no moving parts, therefore must less expensive to mass produce and more reliable.
Both formats have enough bandwidth to make video look pristine on a room sized HD TV. The bandwidth advantage of Bluray is really just overkill.
When you look at a movie, it goes on sale for a pretty high price initially, but before long you see it on the discount racks, sometimes for less than five dollars. In the overall scheme of things, a dollar or two in extra production cost IS a big deal, even for the major movie companies.
Paramount is merely spending money now to save money in the long run. In the long run, the movie studios will spend a whole lot less if Sony and Toshiba formats are competing for their business. So will we.
"His statement only proves the politics & lies involved in this stupid race."
I would be inclined to agree. I've seen Blu ray and the quality is pretty much identical. I've always said that from a Hollywood viewing perspective, either format would work just as well as the other.
On the other hand it's pretty clear that PS3 owners are not being seriously considered as part of the overall equation.
Regardless to that, it's what people are reading today in the papers that will make the difference. I think with Paramounts words, coupled with their actions, along with the rather incredible news coverage this is getting, the situation is now reversed and it's BD that has the uphill fight.