The thing about monthly rental versus yearly upgrades is that the payments are small and regular and soporific and painless and .... and on we go. Like the frog that happily swims in gradually heated water until it cooks.

> "The thing about monthly rental versus yearly upgrades is that the payments are small and regular and soporific and painless and .... and on we go. Like the frog that happily swims in gradually heated water until it cooks."

+1

It's not just about Adobe charging $50/mo. ProTools is offering a subscription and Cakewalk is exploring the possibility so now your audio editor might need to be rented as well. GenArts now has a subscription model for their Plug-ins!!! Imagine if every plug-in manufacturer converted to a subscription model and wanted to be paid every month for every plug-in in your NLE? Pretty soon it would be too expensive to run a personal computer and we'll be back to time sharing on big mainframes because no one can afford to own and run their own computer!!!

Software subscriptions are a slippery slope. You need to think ahead about what is going to happen if you support it because it's not a sustainable model. As Peter said, soon you will be "frog soup". ;-)

~jr

"Software subscriptions are a slippery slope. You need to think ahead about what is going to happen if you support it because it's not sustainable"
- Legal Ransom.. ware? I will not buy into this money grabbing scam.

I haven't gone into any subscription plan yet.

But there should be some kind of an option that after a year of subscription-payment you can keep using the software without getting any further updates.

It's a big deal breaker for me that even after 12 months of payment they take away your software if you are for some reason unable to pay that month.

VMP

If someone is unable to pay a subscription fee after a year, then they surely wouldn't have been able to pay for the whole suite outright, at a cost of 5-10 times what they paid per year to subscribe (depending on the software suite).

Again, if people don't want to do it this way, don't. A causal Photoshop or Premier hobbyist might do just fine with the Photoshop/Premiere Elements combo for less than $100, AND you'll own it. Some of the new features in Photoshop even show up in Elements after a couple of years.

So there you go. A Photoshop killer, made by Adobe.

> "If someone is unable to pay a subscription fee after a year, then they surely wouldn't have been able to pay for the whole suite outright, at a cost of 5-10 times what they paid per year to subscribe (depending on the software suite). "

First, if we are talking about Adobe, the suite was only 2x to 3x the cost of a 1 year subscription. Adobe CS was $1200 - $1800 to buy (depending on the bundle) and $600 a year to upgrade. The subscriptions are also $600 a year so, in effect, they are forcing everyone to upgrade every year whether they need new features or not.

Second, most people don't need the whole suite of products. I only purchased the Adobe CS Video Production suite because I didn't need the web tools. So while people are getting access to the whole suite with the subscription, if you are not a web developer and don't need Dreamweaver, or you are a web developer and don't need Premiere Pro or After Effects, telling me you are giving me more software that i don't need does't make it a good deal. I still don't need it and won't use it so it's worthless.

Third, I personally, would upgrade my Adobe CS every other year because there usually wasn't enough new features to justify spending the money. So Adobe CS2, Adobe CS4, and Adobe CS6 cost me $300 a year to upgrade (i.e., $600 every 2 years) and it was my choice. If I had a bad year and couldn't afford the upgrade I could wait another year. If I didn't need the new features I could wait another year. You loose that freedom to decide what's right for your business with the Adobe model. A subscription would cost me twice as much as I was previously paying because I wasn't upgrading every year.

Look at all of the Vegas Pro editors who are still using Vegas Pro 8 or 9 claiming that it does everything that they need. They would no longer be able to do that. They would have been required to pay for Vegas Pro 10, 11, 12, & 13 even though it didn't have any features that they need. They would loose their choice. If they didn't pay, Vegas Pro would stop working using the Adobe business model. I can't support that model. It's a bad deal for consumers.

> "Again, if people don't want to do it this way, don't."

Some people in certain industries don't have a choice. If you are a freelance Graphics Designer, you are expected to work with Photoshop and Illustrator. Those are the only tools you need from this entire suite but you don't get a job in your industry without them. So you are stuck paying $600 a year for a suite you don't need and you are paying every single year, whether there are new features that you need or not. You don't get a choice to just buy single product or a smaller suite like Adobe use to do.

> "A causal Photoshop or Premier hobbyist might do just fine with the Photoshop/Premiere Elements combo for less than $100, AND you'll own it."

I'm not talking about hobbyists here. They have 100's of graphics packages to choose from. I'm talking about the fact that Adobe has a monopoly on the industry because they are the "de-facto" standard for some graphics tools and they are abusing that position by only offering their software via subscription that causes the tools not to work if you don't continue to pay. This is not true for the video industry because Avid Media Composer and Apple Final Cut Pro are also competitors but until Serif challenged them with Affinity Photo and Affinity Design, they had no competition in the graphics design industry. That's why I think it's important that Serif has done this and the reason for this thread.

~jr

I respect peoples right to choose an Adobe subscription versus traditional licensing , but ....

I am very glad people like John are pointing out alternatives, and continuing to warn and educate users about the problems with Adobe's offerings.

I believe that Adobe's rental plans are not a good deal, not better value than the creative suites were, and were introduced simply to allow them to extract more money from the existing user base without adding any more value. I saw my large investment in the CS6 master collection - of which I had the reasonable expectation of an upgrade path - turned into a value of $360 ( $30 discount for 12 months) at the stroke of Shantanu Narayen's pen.

Never again.

All decent points, Johnny.

But like I said, since getting the entire suite down to $29 a month, it's still a bargain to ME, even if I don't use all the software. But of course, what works or doesn't work for others may be different.

I can see some heavy pro corporate users subscribing to the full suite package, but for the small independent guy and hobbyist the price is ridiculous. Personally I would be interested in AE, but not for $20/month. They are adopting the DirectTV/Comcast pricing model. Yes, you get a lot, but do you use or need it? My daughter is going to subscribe using her student discount for one year. She needs InDesign to publish some research, my wife will use it for her genealogy project and I would like to play around with AE. One year for $20/month I can do because of an immediate need. More than one year is a no go.

According to this site Adobe is rumored to be offering an ad supported version of Photoshop first of the month. Sounds to me like April Fools material, but who knows.

EDIT: link fixed.

Jerry
http://www.takeonesolutions.com
Photography • Video

That link doesn't seem to work.

But that has been said as early as 2007: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070301/092634.shtml

VMP

There is a Windows free tablet version of Photoshop called Photoshop Express that is also available for Windows 10 from their app store. Not much to it in terms of features unfortunately. I expect that an ad supported version would be something along those lines in terms of features.

http://www.photoshop.com/products/photoshopexpress

Replying to a post that's upstream a bit, re Cakewalk considering a subscription model.
Hopefully this refers to last year, when Cakewalk announced that. A bunch of longtime users (including me) declined to upgrade, and Cakewalk finally sent out inquiry asking why. When I (probably WE) complained about the possibility of being left without working software if we didn't subscribe in perpetuity, Cakewalk clarified that if you stop subscribing YOU STILL OWN the latest version you had. If you do subscribe, you get updates and new features several times a year.
I use their Sonar product, and love it. The subscription is $99 a year, and for me that's very reasonable, especially because the periodic new feature are almost always actually useful and valuable.
And especially because I have the security of knowing I own my latest version, I'm quite happy to keep up my subscription.as long as Incan afford it.

Earthrisers,

I didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.

Because Acid Pro 64 bit probably won't be coming, I have stepped over to Sonar X3.
I haven't upgraded to the subscription system because of the common issue.

But that is great news that you can keep the software:

"But unlike “subscription” models (which are in essence just rental programs), after 12 months anything acquired during the Membership is fully authorized and never expires—regardless of whether Membership is renewed or not."

Source: http://www.cakewalk.com/Press/Release/1213/Cakewalk-Shakes-Up-the-World-of-Recording-Software

Adobe should follow this good service.

VMP

I too was a bit concerned about Cakewalks' subscription like model but it has worked out well so far. They give monthly updates with new features and bug fixes and, like was said, if you pay for the year you do get to keep the latest version.

It is also nice as it is not loaded with a bunch of up-selling begware or time wasting mandatory cloud shtuff like the Corel type membership crap.

Using the Sonar Pro version here and there are still things (tools, utilities, interfaces) I have not even scratched. Very powerful DAW.

Sorry, couldn't resist.... now back to ragging on Adobe. :)

Thanks for the input DrLumen.

VMP

I hate Adobe, and thanks God I am Adobe-Free since the last 20 years or so. For all my graphics need, I totally depends on CorelDraw suite (Now on version 18) where I consider it the best alternative to Adobe graphics suite. It is much easier and mush faster than Adobe CC in many cases. Xara is also extremely powerful graphics package and I also use it from time to time with certain projects.

As for DAW, I totally lost the hope that Sony ever will consider updating Acid Pro 7 which is still buggy, and totally outdated! I am amazed that Sony still sell it!

I worked with all major DAWs including Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools, Sonar, Reason, and FL Studio and I even own most of them including FL Studio which offer crazy, and unique free lifetime upgrade policy since the last 18 years! I only paid for version 2 about 17 years ago, and I got every UPGRADE for free .. now on version 12. I know it is hard to believe, but it is 100% true :) No other company do that!!

Anyway, every DAW of them naturally has its cons and pros and I found it very difficult to choose one as my default and only DAW, that is until I came across the free version of PreSonus Studio One 2 and truly I never looked back! Man, it has amazing balance between all the cons and pros of every other DAW I owned. Its almost the perfect DAW with its extremely powerful features and capabilities, and amazing stability. Not to mention its ease of use, and its beautiful and fresh user interface. On top of that, you can not beat its low price, even for the top of the line Pro version. Indeed its worth every cent I spent on the Pro version.

I highly advice any DAW user to give it a try .. you wont regret ..

See all details from this link:
http://studioone.presonus.com/

And download the free or Pro (demo) version from here:
http://studioone.presonus.com/get-studio-one

Thanks for the feedback aboammar.

That looks interesting, also the fact that they say that they don't do the subscription model:



Why would you choose the Studio One over Sonar? Pro and con wise, I am curious.

I also do allot of MIDI writing and (64 bit) VST orchestration so it must be good for that too.

They also give discount for Acid Pro 6+ users: https://shop.presonus.com/products/studio-one-

I can't find a 64 bit trial though.

Edt: found this Sonar VS Studio one thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5697432

*Lacks smooth automation curves, that is gonna be a issue for me.


VMP

.

I haven't been following this thread very closely since I don't have a need for a state-of-the-art graphics program. But I do find the subscription trend interesting, and what it has spawned reminds me of OPEC in an entirely different industry.

A decade ago the nations comprising OPEC had the ability to maximize their earnings because they collectively had enough power to set pricing. But to paraphrase Newton, for every action there is an opposite reaction. High pricing leads to much experimentation, then--Boom!--Fracking gets invented, developed, and mainstreamed. Suddenly the world is awash in cheap oil and natural gas, and nations previously dependent on petrochemical income are screwed.

Adobe is the Big Gorilla in their market. They decide to go subscription, and eventually--Boom!--viable alternatives appear.

I wonder how many cracked copies of Photoshop there are? And what percentage of people continue to use older versions simply to avoid the subscription service. And how many Adobe clients will be lost to the newer, non-subscription competitors. Perhaps Adobe will be forced to adapt, like OPEC.

I'm one of the people on this board who have stayed with V9c, simply because it does everything I need and apparently has acquired legendary status for its stability (no black frames AFAIK, rare crashing) and features (no-recompression render performance). In a sense I feel badly for those who arrived here after V9 and thus have no way of purchasing it through official channels.

Hi VMP ..

Well, the single best thing about Studio One is its incredible stability .. I tried many many times, and could not manage to make it crash .. it is that stable. Sonar on the other hand is a very bad when it comes to stability, and I remember it was crashing on me at least 10 times per hour .. it was that bad! Other things I like about Studio One above Sonar is its speed .. much faster than Sonar, at least in my system. Also the user interface is amazing.. far better and easier to use than Sonar. Also, the developments of Studio One is very rapid, and very solid .. and with every update, you get hundreds of new useful features. Finally, you can not beat the price .. I think you get a lot more for what you pay for .. unlike Sonar, ProTools, and others.

You can download the Pro trial version from this link, buy you need to create a free account first.
http://studioone.presonus.com/get-studio-one

As for smooth automation curves, as far as I know, it is supported since version 2.6 That comparison thread you provided is old, and many have changed since version 2. It is already in version 3.2 with literally hundreds of new features and enhancements since version 2.5

See this video for what is new in version 3.0:

Thanks aboammar, much appreciated!

Looking through the video that 'sections' part looks great! Just like Acid pro! I missed that in Sonar.

I do allot of scoring work and that is very important, to be able to change sections like that.

It is good to know that it is a company that keeps updating their software.

I am still traumatized by Acid Pro 7 not getting any (64 bit) update.

Hope that studio one will be a good replacement. I'll give it a try.

VMP