Problem with tags?

Tim Stannard wrote on 10/17/2015, 7:41 AM
I'm having a problem whereby Vegas 13 is freezing at 87% or 88% when loading a project. I'm pretty comfortable now that it is down to either the number of clips tagged or the number of tags.

I have a new project into which i've dragged around 450 clips. Next step is cataloging them by means of tags (which I've done quite happily in the past but with earlier versions of Vegas).

I tagged away, maybe dealing with 50 or 60 clips at time, saving frequently and as this was done in evenings closing down Vegas and even the PC occasionally.

On one occasion Vegas would not open. It hung at 88% and I had to crash out. I tried opening Vegas without a project then loading the project but same result.

So, I started a new project and dragged the clips in. I closed it and restarted. It wouldn't load.

I suspected a corrupt clip (we've all seen this at some point, i guess) and started doing a bimary chop, irst loading one half of the clips then the other half. But this worked! Only when I had all clips did it fail.

Then on a whim I deleted all the .sfl files. It loaded - but there were no tags. I added a few back in and tags reappeared. OK So now I know what the sfl files are.

I then added back half or the .sfl - project loaded.
Deleted those and added the other half - project loaded
I left those and added some of the others that I'd deleted - project loaded.
Added a few more - project hung.

Removed those I'd most recently added - project loaded.

I tagged a few more clips (thus creating more .sfl) saved, restarted - all OK, continued doing the same until at one point it looked like it was hanging, but eventually loaded (after several minutes)

I added a few more tags. Next time it failed to load (after 20 minutes)

My hypothesis is that either the number of tags or the number of tagged files (not sure which) is causing the problem.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? Anyone have any suggestions for further tests (one problem is each test takes a while as I have to wait for it to fail, and I could really do with getting on with the project)?

Early on in the testing I realised I was running build 444 which I then updated to 453 - same symptoms.

Vegas Pro 13 on Windows 10. i72600K @ 3.4GHz, 8GB RAM GTX560 (GPU Rendering disabled)
Clips are MPEG2 .mxf files 1080/25P 50Mb from my Canon XF100

It seems to work OK with about 20 tags.







Comments

VMP wrote on 10/17/2015, 11:01 AM
This could be an issue with the project media window which is open while the project is loading.

Open an empty Vegas project, disable the Project Media window.
View->Window->Project Media.

Close Vegas, this way Vegas remembers the setting and loads the project the next time without the Project Media Window.

Now restart Vegas with the project that has the problem.

It might load it now.

If the project opens, and you want to open the Project Media Window (View->Window->Project Media) in these cases it will take some time. Be patient.

It has indeed to do with some of the files that is on the timeline and in the Project Media Window that Vegas doesen't like.

VMP
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/18/2015, 11:45 AM
Many thanks VMP. I'll give this a go and report back.
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/19/2015, 5:01 PM
OK.

If I open the project without the Project Media window open, it loads. If I then Open the Project Media Window it hangs.

I deleted many (100 or so) .sfl files and got the project so it would open both with the Project Media window (PMW) and opening the PMW after opening the project.

I then added about 80 tags. Closed the PMW. Shut down Vegas.
Project opened OK, but hung on loading PMW

I removed all the .sfl files I'd created and returned o a project that would open as before (ie as expected)

I then added 50 or so tags to totally different clips and repeated the test above. Every time I open the PMW, Vegas hangs (we're talking waiting 15 minutes here before considering it "hung").

I can reproduce these results with a totally empty timeline.

I'm stumped as to how to diagnose further.

One thing I did notice, though this may always happen - as the project loads I get quite a lot of "building peaks for ...." messages. Not enough to be every file in the project. Whilst the names go past pretty quickly, I noted a few and can see that their .sfk files exist and have a modified date of a few days ago, so I'm not really sure what's going on here. I thought the .sfk files were the "peaks" and keeping them avoids Vegas having to build them. (Indeed this appears to be the case for another project I've just opened)




astar wrote on 10/19/2015, 10:26 PM
Could it be that one file has corruption and is hanging on the peak building?

You might try batch rendering clips to Sony.MXF>XDCAM 422 format. This should be a smart render, so no loss on image quality. Could be something with the file format that Canon uses.

Sony .MXF Format:
Format : MXF
Commercial name : XDCAM HD422
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 148 MiB
Duration : 23s 524ms
Overall bit rate : 52.9 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-10-20 03:55:56.000
Writing application : SONY Vegas 13.0.0.453
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.0.0.5000.1


Canon Format on same Media:
Format : MXF
Commercial name : XDCAM HD422
Format version : 1.2
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 146 MiB
Duration : 23s 524ms
Overall bit rate : 52.2 Mbps
Encoded date : 2015-06-13 19:26:31.000
Writing application : CANON XF300 1.00

That is not a lot of files to be hanging vegas.

Make sure your Dynamic RAM preview setting is default under preferences. 8GB of ram is not a lot memory for large projects.
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/20/2015, 3:53 PM
Thanks astar. Having a bit of difficulty getting Production Assistant to batch render (it appears to process each file (I tried it with just 3) but errors and seems to ignore the target drive.I'll be back when I've figured that.

Yes 8GB is a little on the low side, I've coped with significantly more clips and this project isn't really big. I expect to use only a very small percentage of the clips for a 10 min piece, but I really want to review them and tag them (ie catalog them) within Vegas.

Perhaps there's a better workflow. I used to use MM but found it unreliable (and of course that needed Vegas anyway)
astar wrote on 10/20/2015, 6:15 PM
I posted a modified batch rendering script over in the scripting forum. You basically just set regions, and then copy and paste the event/file names into the region names in edit details. Run the script and you have a Vegas batch render tool.

Not sure if that helps. I have a zipped copy if you want to try it.
MartinE wrote on 10/21/2015, 2:57 AM
Tim, I too am an XF100 user with vegas13 and edit the native mxf files in Vegas. I know this is off topic but wondered how you are getting on with the corrupt thumbnails issue?

I use media bins for sorting my clips rather than tags. One of my current projects takes about 5 mins to load but does get there eventually.

Best of luck.

Love my XF100 bye the way. Great workhorse and I find the MXF files edit very smothly in Vegas on my not very high spec laptop.
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/21/2015, 5:24 AM
@astar - Thanks. Atter returning to my machine I got Production assistant working OK (no idea what I was doing wrong before) and converted 100+ clips in one batch last night. I'll do the rest tonight and then try the tags again.

Thanks for posting the script though - what a great community of generous people.
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/21/2015, 5:32 AM
@BaldBiker - Of course! Media bins. That's what I used to use. If tags still fail, I'll give that a go (though as VMP suggests, it's probably an issue with the Project Media window/clips rather than tags themselves so we will have to see.

As for the thumbnails issue I've never experienced it - but then I never show thumbnails, I prefer to see filenames in a list. Perhaps I'm unusual, but the opening shot of one of my clips is rarely an indication as to what the clip contains (I'm not working on projects with a clapperboard/slate).

Also I tend to be distracted by pictures. For this reason I never have the transitions or effects windows open. I'm probably very inefficient, but that's one advantage of doing this as a hobby, rather than professionally.
MartinE wrote on 10/21/2015, 7:00 AM
Tim, I also do this for a hobby but always looking for ways of speeding up my workflow. Must admit I never thought of working without thumbnails. Food for thought. I hope you sort out your issues.
Tim Stannard wrote on 10/22/2015, 5:26 PM
OK, so I've now changed all the files to Sony MXF, started a new project, imported all the clips (only the .mxf files in the folder) waited for the peak files to build. Closed the project.

Opened again and some of the peak files built again (odd)

Anyway added tags to nearly 200 files. Closed, reopened all OK.

Added tags to another 100 files, closed and - teh old problem is still there - the program hangs (I left it half an hour).

I can work aroound it using Media Bins, but I'm concerned aout a bigger problem underlying this...Ho Hum ..