ProRes (Blackmagic Pocket camera) and Vegas Pro 12

John McCully wrote on 9/7/2013, 5:23 PM
Before I go to the trouble of learning DaVinci Resolve Lite let me ask a question regarding ProRes and Vegas 12. I have found simply dropping the files onto the Vegas Pro 12 timeline then sharpening, saturating, adjusting brightness and contrast and that about does it. Do you suggest I might well see added benefits in going with DaVinci Resolve?



ushere wrote on 9/7/2013, 6:03 PM
i've got some test footage that i've played with in resolve and using clc* in vegas.

resolve has a learning curve and one hell of a lot of power.

clc is rather more mundane, but is relatively fast and simple to use.

have a play - it'll be worth the time to find out what suits YOUR needs.

John McCully wrote on 9/7/2013, 7:43 PM
Thanks for that, ushere; much appreciated. Fast and simple is me even if rather mundane. And the tip about clc in Vegas I shall take a look at that. When, or perhaps if, RAW is implemented in the BMPCC I shall need to invest time learning DaVinci Resolve but why do today what can be put off until tomorrow!

One more question: when I drop a ProRes file onto the Vegas timeline I am asked if I want to set the project properties to match the media and of course I say yes. The template Vegas Pro 12 then selects is HD 1080-60i (1920x1080, 29.970 fps) and I note interlaced settings including ‘upper field first’ and so on. However I captured the footage using the 29.97 frame rate and progressive, or so I thought.

What might I be doing wrong, do you think?

Thanks again.
Serena Steuart wrote on 9/7/2013, 9:57 PM
You can check your media properties using MediaInfo. I just tell Vegas that the media is progressive.
Most people (e.g Phillip Bloom) consider 10 bit ProRes (shooting film log) as quite sufficient and raw too data laden for most purposes. I thought I was fairly competent at colour grading until I started learning Resolve. Yes, the learning curve is steep but well worth it. Stuff you can easily do in Resolve can be very hard work in Vegas.
John McCully wrote on 9/7/2013, 11:12 PM
Many thanks, Serena, that’s all most helpful. In fact the only reason I plan to have a shot at RAW is because I can (when it is implemented) but I’m more than happy with ProRes. I doubt very much that my dabble in RAW will be anything more than that.

Mediainfo is a handy little number, thanks, and yes, of course my ProRes media is progressive and 29.97 fps.

Your comments about DaVinci Resolve I will take seriously and make the effort to learn.

Again, many thanks for the help; much appreciated.

Serena Steuart wrote on 9/8/2013, 2:38 AM
Unfortunately Resolve isn't something easily learned by hitting the buttons to see what happens (my usual approach) and I had to work through the manual. The tutorial is a good starting point, but after that I found I had to work through every chapter. Except noise reduction, because that isn't available in the Lite version. Undoubtedly my mind is less agile than it used to be, but I found quite basic stuff (such as getting clips into the media page) anything but intuitive. Of course once you know it's all very straight forward.
John McCully wrote on 9/8/2013, 3:45 PM
OK, I have downloaded the Resolve manual. Goodness me; it's huge! You made the point that one can easily do in Resolve that which is hard work in Vegas. A quick browse through the manual tells me that getting up to speed with Resolve is extremely hard work indeed. Yes, I know; learning this software is a one-off event and then you are away to the races.

So I shall give it a go. Thanks again for the encouragement.
JasonATL wrote on 9/11/2013, 8:58 AM

I say, go for it.

I also recommend doing a YouTube search on "Davinci Resolve 9 Tutorials". I probably watched about a total of two hours worth of these tutorials (from various people), starting with those that claimed to be "introductions" or "basics." Depending on how you personally learn best (reading, doing, watching, ...), this might be helpful.

I've only recently started consulting the manual (now that I've picked up bad habits!). I'm getting some "aha" moments, but I don't think I would have had them before I had played with Resolve for a while.

I now actually find Resolve to be fairly user-friendly, which came after only a very short time thinking it wasn't (back in the Resolve 8.x days).

John McCully wrote on 9/13/2013, 3:24 AM
Thanks Jason, I shall go for it, but in a leisurely manner of course. I have already downloaded a bunch of files from YouTube and find them generally very helpful. I have no doubt I shall get there with Resolve but truth to tell I’m not overly motivated at this moment because I am having great success with good old Vegas Pro 12. Let me hasten to add that I’m not doing anything fancy but rather just booting the ProRes files such as to enhance the saturation, brightness and contrast and sharpness with the occasional white balance tweak. I am delighted with what I am achieving thus far.

The other thing is I am quickly getting to grips with the Blackmagic Pocket Cine Camera, loving it, and can only take so much delight per day, and night!

But yes, I now have an understanding of the next level possible using Resolve. Heading off down that learning curve is definitely on my to-do list.

NickHope wrote on 9/13/2013, 1:16 PM
There is a superb new video "Getting Started with DaVinci Resolve 10", on their website. You'll be rocking along after watching it. I expect the "What's New..." is worth a watch too.

John McCully wrote on 9/13/2013, 2:57 PM
Nick, you got that right - 'superb' is almost an understatement! Huge help. Many thanks for that find.

markymarkNY wrote on 9/15/2013, 6:53 AM
I have found this set of tuts to be quite helpful:

I have been a Vegas user since the Sonic Foundry days. More recently I have been playing around with video from a new Sony RX100M2. I started messing around with Resolve Lite to see how it compares to Vegas. I like Resolve better for color correction, it seems more intuitive to me but that is if course personal preference. I also find that the preview screen in Resolve to be more accurate. There are obviously also limitations between working with RAW and everything else.

Color grading also seems to flow quicker with Resolve. There's an auto-correct button that quickly syncs up the RGB parade. Using masks and qualifiers is very neat. For example, getting that "orange and teal" blockbuster look is something that can be achieved much easier in Resolve than with Vegas.

I do basic editing of the native AVCHD in Vegas, then export to MXF along with an xml file for Resolve. Then from resolve I export as MXF and then back into Vegas for final tweaking and output.
John McCully wrote on 9/15/2013, 3:23 PM
Thanks for that MarkymarkNY, I shall take a look at those LUTs.

Good to know the round trip feature works for you. When I get the Resolve basics sorted I shall give your workflow a go using AVCHD footage off my NEX 5n. Of course with Resolve 10 I bring the ProRes files directly in and do the editing right there. I then render off a file using the Quicktime MPEG4 template which I then drop on the Vegas Pro 12 timeline for sharpening then rendering to whatever. I understand sharpening can be done in Resolve but thus far I haven’t figured out how. I suspect this feature may be disabled in the Lite version that I’m working with right now. Any feedback on this most appreciated.

And any feedback on my general ProRes workflow also very much appreciated. I have made significant progress however I am still very much in learning mode.

markymarkNY wrote on 9/16/2013, 8:19 PM
Another observation with regards to renders much faster than Vegas. Even with half a dozen nodes with masking and other effects, Davinci renders at 35-40fps on my PC without GPU (6 core i7). Similar color correction effects on Vegas runs about twice as long, also with GPU disabled.

When moving files back and forth make sure you maintain project properties and frame-rates. I like to use Mercalli for stabilization - I wind up having to prerender those clips separately otherwise the output is unwatchable.

Be careful with interlaced AVCHD. When placed on the timeline, it will automatically re-wrap to progressive for editing but when you render you have to make sure to select a deinterlace method to avoid problems with certain finicky plug-ins like Mercalli or Reelsmart Motion Blur.