wwjd

Which recorder did you order that can record 4K in 422? The latest Shogun?

yes, Oldsmoke, looking at Shogun. Specs leave me depressed at the moment, but seems to be the only game I can afford at this time. I'm aware of the frame rate issue and the lack of 4096 4K... but maybe that will change before release.

Have not ordered yet... just waiting, watching patiently...

(the built in 4K is really great actually too)

The Shogun seems to only way to go. Anyway, be ready to handle those 4K files.

yes, should be interesting! Might have to finally go the PROXY FILE route. :) We'll see.

For the time being, I'm using the compressed 420, when still looks really grand.

Signed: - bleeding and loving it

Same here. I love my AX100 4K files and I do use proxies too. Vegasaur has a great proxy feature to do that.

hey did I read VEGAS has an auto proxy feature in it? Like click a menu or right click or something?

What kinda 4K files do you get from your ax100? I'd like to mess around with a file if you have a spare you could share... see if my machine can work with beefier files. GH4 files are super small and easy right now

I messed with BM4K and it did okay, mostly

Here are some samples straight from the camera http://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bz4okF1D_ux5V1FnQUxnVGpEZkE&usp=sharing
I think already VP12 had that feature but the difference is that with Vegas proxies, you only see the proxy if you switch to below Good in your preview window. With Vegasaur, I can have the proxy showing all the time and swap between proxy file and original anytime I want. I can also chose the proxy file format, I use HD EX 1920x1080 30p MXF format, that is easy on the machine.

great thanks man! I'll download it later tonight.

download some, OLDSMOKE. Thanks! They work like a charm. What is the bit rate and depth of those clips?

"[I]What is the bit rate and depth of those clips?[/I]"

Media info:

Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\4K Samples\C0091.MP4
Format : XAVC
Codec ID : XAVC
File size : 81.8 MiB
Duration : 12s 513ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 54.9 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 12s 513ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 53.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 60.0 Mbps
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.214
Stream size : 79.2 MiB (97%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 12s 513ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 2.29 MiB (3%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-04 18:15:08

Other
Type : meta
Duration : 12s 513ms


For the i7-3770k users among us, my Preview Full frame rate is about 17 fps with only on-die graphics.

I rendered a 78 second timeline to the Sony AVC/MVC 1920x1080-29.97p Internet template at 25.99 mbps in 149 seconds. I had a Brightness and Contrast filter to conform the levels. CPU utilization was ~60-70% with CPU only and memory usage was ~ 5.78 GB.

The Mainconcept Internet render template took 244 seconds.

I am philosophically interested in this camera.

how did you get that info John? in vegas?

Mediainfo

Uncheck the crapware.

sweet thanks! yeah, I'm hip to additive install ware :)

cool! Ok, here's GH4 C4k file at 24fps for example

Complete name : E:\video\4k\4k video tests\P1000676.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 371 MiB
Duration : 39s 500ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 78.8 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
PANA :

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 39s 500ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 77.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 106 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.896
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.364
Stream size : 364 MiB (98%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 39s 500ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 7.23 MiB (2%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 39s 500ms
Time code of first frame : 01:12:50:08
Time code settings : Striped
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-06 00:09:18
Bit rate mode : CBR


And an MP4, if it makes any diff
General
Complete name : E:\video\4k\4k video tests\P1000699.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 67.9 MiB
Duration : 7s 500ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 76.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 7s 500ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 74.3 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 106 Mbps
Width : 4 096 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.896
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.350
Stream size : 66.4 MiB (98%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 7s 500ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.37 MiB (2%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 7s 500ms
Time code of first frame : 01:13:29:20
Time code settings : Striped
Encoded date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Tagged date : UTC 2014-07-08 21:40:23
Bit rate mode : CBR

question:

does 8-bit or 10-bit video file depth have ANY RELATION what so ever to my display doing 16.7 million colors (8 bit?) and windows running at 32-bit??

DANGER Will Robinson! I'm officially over my head already :D

Well, i could say officially I don't believe it. Earlier post that you made in reference to my attempts at a consistent point - you are NOT ready for this.

File depth is one thing, resolution of bits per color channel is another, color space is yet another, and Vegas working in digital intermediates at 32bit processing is another.
Don't know why you brought up the OS platform parameter?
?

So here is what science says, color space trumps all, resolution of bits per color channel comes second, with file depth following a distant 3rd. This is precisely why 4k versions at this time is really a non-starter.

what does "4k versions at this time is really a non-starter" mean? 4k is 4k and it is out there and live. Color spaces and levels is what this is about. Sure, people are not all watching 4K, but filmers are all over it. It is VERY handy to us.

OS platform: because that is what I am running

Vegas previews 8-bit max
Files could go to 10-bit
My screen does 24 bit (16.7m colors)
Windows is set to 32bit color FWIW
(camera files currently 8-bit, soon to be 10)

This is precisely why 4k versions at this time is really a non-starter.

I am also not certain what that statement means.

@wwjd
I asked the same questions a while ago and gave up on the 422 idea simply because there was no clear or certain conclusion on what Vegas does where. As long as SCS doesn't make that part clear, I will not attempt anything in that direction. I bought a BM Shuttle and hocked it up to me Z5U which does output 4:2:2 via HDMI. When it came to grading those files, I didn't see much difference. But now, with the 4K from my AX100 I can see the difference although it's only 4:2:0. For archiving I actually render my finals to 4K XAVC Intra at 32bit video levels only. It's a long render because its not GPU accelerated but the result is great and goes straight into Handbrake.

I generally read your posts because I admire your enthusiasm. So, respectfully, I’ll say it’s difficult sometimes when someone posts with the intention, “I just want to know about this topic. I don’t want to know about that topic.” Random bits of knowledge don’t necessarily lead to understanding. Especially when it comes to the topics videoITguy is talking about. There is interconnection between them. He’s one of the members I respect a lot and have learned a lot from his posts. Dig in with the intention of understanding it all.

24 bit monitor = 8 bits per channel, same as standard Vegas preview color depth. 8 bits Red, 8 bits Green, 8 bits Blue. You won’t see more than 8 bit color on your monitor.
Windows color setting 32 bit = same 8 bits per channel, but adds an alpha channel for processing transparency effects.

atom12

that would imply that no 10bit will come out of Windows? That would mean even in Photoshop you et only 8bit per color and not 10bit? That would mean a monitor with 1.07billion colors is a waist?

color depth = 8 bits per channel - x 3 = 24 bits of display on a typical monitor. In fact the video card can display your transparency files which carry the xtra 8 bits in that alpha channel. This is a typical monitor that 99% of us all use.

Getting 10bit depth would require a pipe out in hardware ( which BlackMagic Design does support for monitoring ). But also requires the software of VegasPro to support that external preview pipe of similar depth as well which currently does not.

10bit is possible on REAL expensive monitors when the pipe is wide enough to get to it.

The reason that the producer of simple edit chain like the 4k as constituted now is because it makes a noticeable change in the immediate view. But the industry as a whole has to be a lot more concerned with workflows that are creating copies of copies, broadcasting, optical disc distribution etc. The effect of this along with consistency and tolerance for effects like color grading or producing green screen is most affected by color space, and so on - not the current 4k.

Old Smoke, no,in my understanding Windows color depth is for the OS's display to the monitor, just as Vegas can only preview 8 bit video while working with various bit depths in a 32 bit float project. I'm definitely not an expert, but the limitations of any system's display doesn't mean it can't process video or stills with a higher bit depth. You just won't see all the information that you're working with.

With Win 7 and above the OS facilitates 10 bit output for apps and video cards/drivers that will allow it. I don't think the OS generated graphics (desktop icons, etc.) are ever more than 8 bit. I'll disclaim again, I'm not an expert, but this is what I have (hopefully accurately) absorbed through reading.

Some video cards allow output of deeper color than 8 bit/channel, some monitors too. But if you're working with a bit depth higher than 8 bit, actually seeing what you're working with isn't easy because any single component in the chain will take you back to an 8 bit output if it can't process a higher bit depth.