Quality of VP12 build 670? How it's working 4 you?

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 7/29/2013, 5:24 PM
Hi,

Build 670 is out since the end of last week, but there is not much here about it. Before - other older releases produced quite a buzz...

It would be nice to know if SCS has finally has ironed out the more serious and known bugs / issues. It seems that in GPU assisted rendering and acceleration there is still many issues on the wish-list... Not to mention the poor support for the 6XX series GPU's.

Would be nice to hear other's (power user's) opinions. I would like to compile a list of issues that deserves to be fixed (bothers more than a few of us), before SCS even considers releasing the next "lucky" number 13. Or will it be skipped completely ;) ?


Christian

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 7/29/2013, 6:23 PM
It will be the marketing joke of a lifetime if SCS releases unlucky 13 after badluck and I dare add incompetent 12. If they choose to do it, I guarantee you it will be the marketing professor's case topic in every college level class there is. Now do they want the notoriety?

Version 670 has paved the way for Intel Processing and non-NVidia GPU. That is a big slam in the face of most current power users, so I would suggest the response to version build 670 - huh??
ushere wrote on 7/29/2013, 8:09 PM
what exactly is a 'power user'?

12 is behaving quite well for me - long / short form doco. mind you, other than the odd multicam in interviews (usually 3), a bit of glitz for openers and bumpers, some cc'ing, and a fair amount of 'ken burns-ing' i don't think i'm stressing vegas that much.

i'm still in the dark regarding where we're upto regarding all the gpu / ram rendering / fx. no info from scs and a plethora of disparate problems quoted in this forum doesn't help my faith in scs ability to understand their users concerns...

still, vegas 12 is, as i've just written, working well for me so far....

videoITguy wrote on 7/29/2013, 8:30 PM
To the concern of ushere - of course there is no definition of a power user. However, based on ushere's comments here, he/she's usaage patterns would qualify as a 'almost power user. Here is what I would add to qualify as power user to supplement ushere's comments.
Extensive use of VegasPro as a compositor with parent/child track relations - use of nesting and/or intermediates in the post process. Some green-screening, some multi-track audio,as well as multiple types of camera input on the timeline. Some use of 32bit modes and 10bit intermediates. Final output to broadcast media or Blu-ray disc release.
CJB wrote on 7/29/2013, 8:59 PM
It has a bug that bugs me.... The project properties video when you have selected 32 floating point, the view transform is stuck at ACES RRT (sRGB). Support says its a bug and will attempt to fix in next release. Funny thing is the problem is worse than it was in prior build (which at least you could change your project.) Other than that seems to be working alright.
Lovelight wrote on 7/29/2013, 9:54 PM
Seems a little slower when 4 cam multi editing.
ushere wrote on 7/29/2013, 10:43 PM
thanks videoitguy - never really thought of myself anywhere near power user status ;-)

as for your VegasPro as a compositor with parent/child track relations - use of nesting and/or intermediates in the post process. Some green-screening

i used to use vegas for such things but find, (having slowly learnt 'some' of it), ae to be much more powerful and 'reliable'. i add 'reliable' based on my old perceptions of using vers 10 / 11. can't speak for 12 since i haven't even tried any 'serious' compositing or the like....
MTuggy wrote on 7/29/2013, 10:49 PM
If I have GPU acceleration turned off, just like with the previous release, it is totally stable. If I turn GPU acceleration on, it with freeze up every 1/2 hour or so and I lose some work (but I save often). Preview playback is still pretty low frame rate too.

I may revert back to V 10 or 11 for new projects. Not seeing much of an advantage over 11 (where I could use GPU accel.).

Mike
willqen wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:15 PM
Version 12 build 670 of Vegas Pro 12 has been working very well for me.

I do compositing with parent-child track relationships (naturally), and also use 32bit video and full range color levels with none of the present problems that have been reported recently.

Nearly all my projects have had/used multi-track audio tracks as most are mixed to 5.1 surround as well as stereo (I don't allow Vegas to auto-downmix, I make my own stereo mix out of the same source tracks as those that are used for the 5.1 mix. I've yet to find any program that can auto-downmix properly.)

My normal workflow for large projects with lots of clips is to use nested projects, as well as intermediate files for easier editing and better rendering quality. I prefer 10bit for rendering and use 8bit intermediates (proxy) for ease of editing.

I have done several multi camera projects as well as some green screening, however most projects are non-fiction or advertisements so I don't need a lot of green-screen work.

I doubt very much that I'm some kind of power user, but I am a professional and do make my living in post, mostly, but do do quite a bit of on scene work with cameras as well.

All I can say is I use Vegas every day. I've built and used at least 6 computer systems since I first started using Vegas.

That was Vegas Audio, soon after I added the Vegas Video components and started working with video as well. Then of course, moved on to Vegas 2, 3, 4 etc., until now, using Vegas Pro 12 b670.

I've stayed up to date and haven't missed any releases or updates to this point.

Vegas has always done well for me. There have been few problems for me, and there has not been any problem that I could not find a way to work around (easily).

If I had a problem I would certainly voice it here and have done so in the past, although I tend to read (research) lot's of posts, but don't post a lot myself.

Having said that I guess I have just been lucky, I haven't had all the problems so many others have faced and complained of (loudly.)

Will
imaginACTION_films wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:28 PM
I'm doing a mixture of simple 2-camera interviews and more complex multi-track green screen plays (in Chinese, which adds to the challenge...). It has all been totally reliable in Build 670, although I haven't had the courage to try renders with GPU assist.

The only serious glitch I've noticed today is that if I try and use NewBlue TitlerPro version 1 or 2, Vegas crashes instantly to the dreaded white screen. I've notified Sony and NewBlue and have also posted more about it here, but it's a real killer when you've got live paying projects and real deadlines to meet. I think I will try and go back to the previous build for the moment to get around this glitch.

Although last time I had to do that, I got the SCS "too many Activations" error which was not helpful, since I only had to do that because their program wasn't working! On that point, I kinda liked Edius's dongle approach up to Version 6, where you could install on as many machines as you liked but had to use the dongle on the active machine. It just did away with the whole activation circus. Unfortunately they've done away with it on version 6.5 and 7. (And I'm still climbing the Edius learning curve which, after a decade + with Vegas is very steep!).

But, overall, I have no serious issues with VP12, which is working as stably as Versions 7 and 8 used to be.
David
videoITguy wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:29 PM
willgen - Are your current system specs loaded here ?? - I note you display a very low end graphics card - so leads me to believe you don't push GPU processing or are you even interested in your current Vegas usage?
willqen wrote on 7/30/2013, 12:33 AM
I don't push the GPU much right now.

At the time I built this machine there was some cautions about what video cards were reliable and what driver versions were ok.

I chose the NVidea 460 v2 card because at the time it was the most reliable video card for Vegas, as mentioned many times by many users here in the forums. The $$ I saved I used for better RAM and CPU.

I'm still using it (the same video card) today only because It's taking time for saving the $$$ for a new, proper video card so I can use the GPU more. Probably I will go with some version of the PNY/NVIdea 4000 card. At the time I built this system I had other problems related to the RAM & Motherboard (not Vegas) that turned out to be major expensive, and major time consuming.

Maybe I didn't author my previous post very well but to clear it up:

I use Vegas every day. Of course I'm interested in how Vegas functions. I depend on how well Vegas works because I make my living with it. It is my major piece of software.

I have been lucky in that I have not had some of the major problems others have had over the years.

I work around the limitations of the GPU processing imposed by my video card, by using intermediaries and nested projects. I hope, no, I expect the new PNY card will improve my work flow, when I get it.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions ...

Will
VidMus wrote on 7/30/2013, 2:47 AM
Works perfectly here.
Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 7/30/2013, 9:17 AM
Hi All,

Good debate going on...

In my eyes a "power user" is an individual that depends on the application in his job (or in his/hers serious hobby), and sits in front of the editing rig long enough to get sore red eyes - or black rings around the same - also "stretching" Vegas from time to time so much(all projects are not plain vanilla) that (s)he is slowly but surely is becoming bald due to ripping off hair in frustration - at occasions when Vegas crashes or freezes - by just using it for what it is advertized and intended to do. Thats my definition of a power user ;)

Vegas behaves for me also quite well - unless I don't "push" it... It's the ONLY software that I have to be "careful" with.... Imagine using Photoshop worrying at the same time about what kind of images you should open or what kind of filters or functions you dare to use. That would be insane. Using GPU accelerated FX, timeline and/or final rendering is currently one part of the marketing mantra, but can you use these with confidence - no! Ok - I know I have a 6XX series nVIdia GPU but come on - I cannot anymore buy locally the older 5XX or 4XX cards, they have just vansihed from the shelves. I go with the newest technology and Vegas MUST follow soon enough. All other applications I use works flawlessly with my hardware, why not Vegas?

Vegas 12 b670 works fairly good for me - unless I activade the GPU or want to use more RAM for preview... This is like buying a BMW with a V8 cylinder engine but always having to unplug 6 of the 8 sparkplugs before taking a drive. ...I miss so much the incredible stability and quality of my first encounter with Vegas (6).

SCS - do us all a favor; skip version 13 completely (it's an unlucky number after all) and work for another year just ironing out all bugs and small quirks of the new 64-bit code base, and fix the dysfunctional GPU rendering (and take nVidia seriously too). That would be well spent time without the stress to add new "features" to an buggy codebase. Even your programmers would be grateful. Don't do anything else - just improve quality and stability, not forgetting small fixes and improvements to the already existing functions. And next - one year from now - give us back our stable and rock solid Vegas (Vegas really Pro 14) in the late autumn 2014. I would certainly renew without any new features added if I know that you have purely concentrated on the things mentioned. You would not loose customers, on the contrary, you would just gain in the long run. Financing this without the small boost in sales with a "new" version might be tricky, but it would pay off in the long run. Everybody lovers your interface and intuitive workflow, just finetune the engine under the hood. we do not need another bunch of new less importand features. I know this is wishful thinkin but you can always dream...

I will continue with a more demanding ("pushing") project next week, well se how build 670 tackles that. Hanging here with you all gives me a cousy feeling, at least I can vent about issues with other (bald and redeyed) power users :)

Cheers,

Christian

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

CJB wrote on 7/30/2013, 9:39 AM
@Christian de Godzinsky

For me most of the problems with GPU were with the graphics driver version. Nvidia's 320 series of drivers (current) are particularly bad. I rolled back to earlier version (314.22) and works fine now. Many others also recommend even earlier version 296.10.
Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 7/30/2013, 10:25 AM
Hi dancechis,

You are right on this, it has helped some people, I have also been doing my share (and more) fiddling around with different GPU drivers, but have not found one that works completely well. Why do I have the feeling I'm an guinea pig = test animal? Why cannot SCS clearly state what works and what does not - if there are some conflicting combination? Maybe they don't know due to uncomplete test procedures... This nVidia GPU mess really needs to be sorted out - and soon....

Christian

WIN10 Pro 64-bit | Version 1903 | OS build 18362.535 | Studio 16.1.2 | Vegas Pro 17 b387
CPU i9-7940C 14-core @4.4GHz | 64GB DDR4@XMP3600 | ASUS X299M1
GPU 2 x GTX1080Ti (2x11G GBDDR) | 442.19 nVidia driver | Intensity Pro 4K (BlackMagic)
4x Spyder calibrated monitors (1x4K, 1xUHD, 2xHD)
SSD 500GB system | 2x1TB HD | Internal 4x1TB HD's @RAID10 | Raid1 HDD array via 1Gb ethernet
Steinberg UR2 USB audio Interface (24bit/192kHz)
ShuttlePro2 controller

willqen wrote on 7/30/2013, 11:30 AM
Hah, great description of a "power user!", Christian!!

God knows I've ended up with red eyes and dark circles around them many, many times. Hah. LOL!!!

I agree with you about the shortcomings of SCS and Vegas, also I think it would be absolutely stupendous, as well as extremely surprising, if SCS did indeed delay releasing a new version of Vegas this year, and spend the year ironing out all the old leftover bugs, as well as making sure GPU accelerated processing works, AND is bullet proof.!

I am apparently, one of the few users to be lucky in regards to Dynamic RAM Preview. I typically reserve 1 & 1/2 Gigs just for my RAM previews and have experienced few problems (so far) because of it. Also the number of CPU threads reserved for Vegas seems less problematic for me than other users have reported as well.

Don't get me wrong, Vegas has frozen because too many CPU threads were selected. It usually happens right after an update when Vegas sets the default thread count too high. (usually 16, I have a 4-core CPU). Even though my CPU does hyperthreading, I manually set it to 3 threads. Works fine that way and I have very few crashes or hang ups.

I still insist however, that SCS needs to fix all the problems that I and others have, and are, repeatedly reporting, because these problems obviously exist.! Even for myself, I know that sub-consciously I'm not pushing Vegas as hard as I could, because of the ingrained caution caused by the various problems I, and many others have had, while using,or should I say beta testing Vegas.

There are those projects that inevitably cause me to push Vegas to the point where it crashes, to try and accomplish my goals for that particular project.

It might be something small, like trying to make some simple and quick edits, and render out to Blu-Ray, or DVD, with AVCHD camera footage, without going to an intermediary, because of time constraints imposed by the budget, or a clients schedule.

Inevitably that's when Vegas does crash. At the worst time, with a client looking over my shoulder, perhaps having engaged my services for the hourly rate instead of establishing a budget, when I need it to function at it's best, doing what it used to do flawlessly.

That is frustrating! Frustrating to the point where I lose considerable amounts of hair, and I don't have a lot of it left.!!

Anyway, while I have been fortunate to not have constant problems with Vegas, I have had them!! At the worst of times.

Maybe we will have to start a Picket line in front of SCS's home office building.

Maybe not.

I just hope it get's better soon because I love using Vegas, and it works for me. I want to continue using it. I don't want to see it fail and go away.!!!

Will
wilvan wrote on 7/30/2013, 4:09 PM
My both workstations ( see my system specs ) , GPU turned OFF , 30 Gigabyte RAM preview and 16 threads on the dell T7500 whilst 40 Gigabytes RAM preview and 32 threads on the HPZ820 ( both max values changed in internal prefs ) .

Both run smoothly in ( best full ) preview and renders are fast .

As long as certain openFX stuff is not being used ... ( genarts edge though works almost fine .... )

Both workstations pure and only editing systems ( vegas , dvdarch , soundforge and AfterEffects CS6 ) , minimum services (27 ) running in win7-64 , no internet while editing , no antivirus ,visual effects windows for max performance , etc.... . ( as per avid guidelines and valid for any other editing system )

Shame though vegas PRO ? avoiding nvidia improvement ( in my case quadro 4000's ) and putting efforts in intel GPU ????
( but I really don't care since the xeon's and RAM ( and in the HPZ820 also the tripple SSD's ) blow away the GPU thing )

Sony  PXW-FS7K and 2 x Sony PXW-Z280  ( optimised as per Doug Jens Master Classes and Alister Chapman advices )
2 x HP Z840 workstations , each as follows : WIN10 pro x 64 , 2 x 10 core Xeon E5-2687W V3 at 3.5 GHz , 256 GB reg ECC RAM , HP nvidia quadro P5000 , 3 x samsung 970 EVO Plus 500GB M.2 2280 PCIe 3.0 x4  , 3 x SSD samsung 860 pro , 3 x 3TB WD3003FZEX.
SONY Vegas Pro 13 build 453  ( user since version 4 ) , SONY DVDarch , SONY SoundForge , SONY Acid Pro 
(MAGIX) Vegas pro 14 ( bought it as a kind of support but never installed it )
SONY CATALYST browse 
Adobe Photoshop  CC 2018
Adobe After Effects CC 2018 & Adobe Media Encoder CC 2018
Avid Media Composer 2021.9 ( started with the FREE Avid Media Composer First , a couple of years ago )
Dedicated solely editing systems , fully optimised , windows 10 pro x 64 
( win10 pro operating systems , all most silly garbage and kiddy stuff of microsoft entirely removed , never update win 10 unless required or after a while when updates have proven to be reliable  )

Hulk wrote on 7/30/2013, 7:55 PM
I am not a betting man but if I was I'd bet the next version will be called "Sony Vegas Pro XIII"
ushere wrote on 7/30/2013, 8:50 PM
@ hulk - not a betting man either, but if scs doesn't get their act together regarding gpu / preview / etc., it might well be called edius 7 ;-)

joking aside, as i wrote earlier in the thread, seems to be doing ok here....
mhuth1776 wrote on 7/30/2013, 10:56 PM
This build has the same problem the previous build has. Merely having the program open eventually (couple of hours to overnight) causes video playing on the system to come to crawl - it looks like stuttering slow motion. The disk access rate falls from the necessary 2.5 MBps to around 80kBps. This happen to any video player. Somehow, the video decode chain is hijacked and broken by VegasPro12. Perhaps it is GPU support?

I can't get anything done with it, because I have to reset the system to get it to work again. Very frustrating. So glad I bought the update ... not!
Rainer wrote on 7/31/2013, 2:36 AM
I don't think it was mentioned in the fixes, but attempting to open the render dialog in 670 so far hasn't crashed Vegas for me, something the previous versions did. I have the same problem as mhuth - leaving the program open for several hours slows and finally stops video playback, but I don't have to do anything to the system, just restart Vegas.
MyST wrote on 7/31/2013, 7:19 AM
Same here regarding leaving Vegas open overnight.

I had a very basic project. I came here to read this thread and saw this previous post regarding freezes. When I checked my project I noticed the title in the project was pixelated. I shut down Vegas and a pop-up came up telling me Vegas stopped working.
willqen wrote on 7/31/2013, 11:29 AM
Same here. Can't le3ave Vegas open and unattended for more than a few minutes without rebooting the system. Don't have the problem, usually if I'm workibng with it. Irregardless though, after a few hours (2-3) I must reboot. Vegas just simply becomes so slow as to be unusable.

Will
videoITguy wrote on 7/31/2013, 1:06 PM
Good Grief, maybe I just don't get it, but from this thread many users report "they are so very content with VegasPro12 software build 670" and then several posts later it is revealed they only do certain workflows with the timeline - and " oh yeah', it hangs on being left open". Really ? This is usable software?

I leave version 9.0e open on a network of machines that I run for business purpose sometimes as long as 12 hours without activity and there is no hang! Wow! what do you people suffer for?