You can use DNG in Vegas Pro by installing Adobe's DNG codec, though Vegas Pro won't read the RAW meta data.

Search the forums for ACES and EXR posts. There have been several discussion of the years on this type of editing.

Vegas only supports RedCode from the RED ONE era. Vegas also supports the EXR format, which is a format that is capable of holding more than RAW information. Project settings need to be in 32-bit modes, and then PC hardware performance becomes a huge factor.

Any other RAW support on the timeline is due to addon software that uses Windows functions to allow this. The problem with is that without extreme knowledge of what is happening behind the scenes it is hard to know if all the information is being passed. One wrong project mode, plugin, or effect could clip all the raw info to 8-bit. Do your own camera chart tests, and verify the levels are end up where they should be in whatever format you end up on.

You would need the correct display equipment to see the extra info in any RAW formats.

I created a post back when it was announced that Magix had bought Vegas, requesting that they support ARRI, Current RED, and Sony RAW formats. BMD raw would be a good one as well to support. There does not appear to be much progress on that front, and only consumer level formats added. Which makes sense given Magix's prior product line up. It takes a large wallet to play in the professional arena with the likes of AVID, Abode, ARRI, RED, BMD Resolve, and Sony's of the world. However, the professional community will never take Vegas seriously again until professional level workflows are supported.

Search the forums for ACES and EXR posts. There have been several discussion of the years on this type of editing.

Vegas only supports RedCode from the RED ONE era. Vegas also supports the EXR format, which is a format that is capable of holding more than RAW information. Project settings need to be in 32-bit modes, and then PC hardware performance becomes a huge factor.

Any other RAW support on the timeline is due to addon software that uses Windows functions to allow this. The problem with is that without extreme knowledge of what is happening behind the scenes it is hard to know if all the information is being passed. One wrong project mode, plugin, or effect could clip all the raw info to 8-bit. Do your own camera chart tests, and verify the levels are end up where they should be in whatever format you end up on.

You would need the correct display equipment to see the extra info in any RAW formats.

I created a post back when it was announced that Magix had bought Vegas, requesting that they support ARRI, Current RED, and Sony RAW formats. BMD raw would be a good one as well to support. There does not appear to be much progress on that front, and only consumer level formats added. Which makes sense given Magix's prior product line up. It takes a large wallet to play in the professional arena with the likes of AVID, Abode, ARRI, RED, BMD Resolve, and Sony's of the world. However, the professional community will never take Vegas seriously again until professional level workflows are supported.

 

Thanks for the detailed information. I will explore this path for select video jobs but it does not seem to be a good route for "bread n' butter" type jobs; due to the time investment required to churn out the final product. It seems that color correcting in Premiere or FC, rendering to high quality format, then importing into Vegas Pro is probably the route to go with.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/logarist-color-correction-for-vegas-pro--105118/

Search the forums for ACES and EXR posts. There have been several discussion of the years on this type of editing.

Vegas only supports RedCode from the RED ONE era. Vegas also supports the EXR format, which is a format that is capable of holding more than RAW information. Project settings need to be in 32-bit modes, and then PC hardware performance becomes a huge factor.

Any other RAW support on the timeline is due to addon software that uses Windows functions to allow this. The problem with is that without extreme knowledge of what is happening behind the scenes it is hard to know if all the information is being passed. One wrong project mode, plugin, or effect could clip all the raw info to 8-bit. Do your own camera chart tests, and verify the levels are end up where they should be in whatever format you end up on.

You would need the correct display equipment to see the extra info in any RAW formats.

I created a post back when it was announced that Magix had bought Vegas, requesting that they support ARRI, Current RED, and Sony RAW formats. BMD raw would be a good one as well to support. There does not appear to be much progress on that front, and only consumer level formats added. Which makes sense given Magix's prior product line up. It takes a large wallet to play in the professional arena with the likes of AVID, Abode, ARRI, RED, BMD Resolve, and Sony's of the world. However, the professional community will never take Vegas seriously again until professional level workflows are supported.

 

Vegas 13 does support Red Epic and Scarlet. Vegas 14 addred Red Dragon support. Colorscience support is however still far out of date

Vegas 13 does support Red Epic and Scarlet. Vegas 14 addred Red Dragon support. Colorscience support is however still far out of date.

Yes. Vegas will support the higher resolution of more advanced RED cameras. It is important to know that VP13 has a max project resolution of 4096x4096. I do not think VP 14 increased this limit at all. Any dragon weapon footage will be scaled to that resolution, but you will be able to edit it, and you can zoom/crop your footage to 4096.

RedCode is really not RAW so much as a variant of JPEG2000 Wavelet codec, so its lossy and not capturing sensor data.

Cineform 12-bit would be a good intermediate and still hold the color accuracy info available DNG, it all depends on where you final destination is. If you client just needs a good looking 8-bit HD file, then do not hold on to all the information, and downgrade it to something like Cineform, HDCAM-SR, or XDCAM-422 for editing in Vegas. AVC-Intra is a 4K alternative, but I feel like the cineform wavelet codec has less overhead than the AVC-intra.

Vegas is going to need a 8Kx8K soon, in order to stay contemporary. Also some type of improved CC for RAW workflow.

"Colorscience support is however still far out of date." - Do you mean that you cannot drop the latest red formats on the timeline and have access to color modes that RED has defined? Because if you move your footage into the FP linear space, you actually have very good range. Its just that working that mode is very engineer like and not very creative friendly. That may be room for improvement for sure.

Honestly, just save yourself the hassle. I stopped "fighting" with vegas to do RAW a while back. You might get it going by converting to an intermediate format first before editing in Vegas, but if you want efficient RAW editing that maximizes the use of your GPU resources (I use the Quadro line), premiere does it better, unfortunately. Audio wise, vegas is better.

There is also the possibility to use a roundtrip workflow with both Resolve and then Vegas. Develop the raw footage in Resolve (luminance and color correction but also grade it to rec709 if you go for that). Render it to an intermediate like Cineform or now also ProRes and do the final editing in Vegas. Is additional work but compares strengthes of both tools.

+1 -" roundtrip workflow with both Resolve and then Vegas"

Resolve is coming around for editing, but everytime I try an use it for editing, I find myself wanting to do something that needs a work around or another app to complete.

Honestly, just save yourself the hassle. I stopped "fighting" with vegas to do RAW a while back. You might get it going by converting to an intermediate format first before editing in Vegas, but if you want efficient RAW editing that maximizes the use of your GPU resources (I use the Quadro line), premiere does it better, unfortunately. Audio wise, vegas is better.

Honestly, just save yourself the hassle. I stopped "fighting" with vegas to do RAW a while back. You might get it going by converting to an intermediate format first before editing in Vegas, but if you want efficient RAW editing that maximizes the use of your GPU resources (I use the Quadro line), premiere does it better, unfortunately. Audio wise, vegas is better.

thanks, I am going to go the route of using Premiere or BlackMagic for color correcting and rough cuts then edit in Vegas. Regarding Quadro GPU; I am about to build a DecCore DAW and was going to ask the forum for recommendations on a GPU that will give me fast render times... thanks

Vegas 13 does support Red Epic and Scarlet. Vegas 14 addred Red Dragon support. Colorscience support is however still far out of date.

Yes. Vegas will support the higher resolution of more advanced RED cameras. It is important to know that VP13 has a max project resolution of 4096x4096. I do not think VP 14 increased this limit at all. Any dragon weapon footage will be scaled to that resolution, but you will be able to edit it, and you can zoom/crop your footage to 4096.

RedCode is really not RAW so much as a variant of JPEG2000 Wavelet codec, so its lossy and not capturing sensor data.

Cineform 12-bit would be a good intermediate and still hold the color accuracy info available DNG, it all depends on where you final destination is. If you client just needs a good looking 8-bit HD file, then do not hold on to all the information, and downgrade it to something like Cineform, HDCAM-SR, or XDCAM-422 for editing in Vegas. AVC-Intra is a 4K alternative, but I feel like the cineform wavelet codec has less overhead than the AVC-intra.

Vegas is going to need a 8Kx8K soon, in order to stay contemporary. Also some type of improved CC for RAW workflow.

"Colorscience support is however still far out of date." - Do you mean that you cannot drop the latest red formats on the timeline and have access to color modes that RED has defined? Because if you move your footage into the FP linear space, you actually have very good range. Its just that working that mode is very engineer like and not very creative friendly. That may be room for improvement for sure.

 

 

By "Colorscience support si however still far out of date", I mean that the Vegas R3D decode window allows me to select color version 1 or 2. Redcine-X AFAIK used to have redcolor 1 and 2, presently in RedCine-X I see Redcolor4, Dragoncolor2, Rec2020, Rec 709 and sRGB.

"redcolor 1 and 2, presently in RedCine-X I see Redcolor4, Dragoncolor2, Rec2020, Rec 709 and sRGB."

I agree with what you are saying. It must be a licensing thing, or RED is feeling the pressure to keep somethings proprietary so that you use Redcine-X. Either way, Vegas does not support those higher end color spaces directly, it instead supports ACES in EXR which is a much larger space to work in. That does not mean that the way plugins, FX, and what not are creative friendly.

The real problem is that cameras today can capture more information than our cheesy monitors can reproduce. even high end monitors still do not support the full range of capture. That is why log formats, LUTs, and all that hoop la exists. They are ways to squeeze and contort the image into a small box and make it look pretty good.

For example: ASUS ProArt PA32U Display: 4K, 1000 Nits Brightness, 95% DCI-P3, 85% Rec. 2020 - things are getting much better however. Not to long a long we were all happy with 95% support of sRGB space from a monitor.

To make things worse, 99% of people are happy as a clam with an 8-bit 4K experience, mainly because they "got a good deal" somewhere.

It will be interesting to see if Magix works to support pro levels, or just slides Vegas along side the other consumer NLEs they have on the product shelf.

**********

Here is content published by RED, and the Snowboarder graphic would put Vegas right after Red RAW, but the other picture curves would need to be hand build presets. ACES and EXR work in a linear color space.

http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/redlogfilm-redgamma

I personally would like to see the Video Scopes re-worked so that you could either set range values, and place scope markers, or select by image space standards. Also a scope option that allows monitoring a live source would be nice.

Regarding Quadro GPU; I am about to build a DecCore DAW and was going to ask the forum for recommendations on a GPU that will give me fast render times... thanks

See this thread: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-graphics-cards-gpu-acceleration-for-vegas-pro--104614/ Read the bit about Quadro carefully, and the thread linked to. The jury is still out on whether Quadros actually deliver 10-bit preview from Vegas.

Actual GPU-accelerated rendering is only supported on AVC and only for old graphics cards up to Nvidia GTX 580 or AMD HD 6790. But a card that is good for OpenCL will speed up general video processing, which also helps render times, especially on complicated projects. Current recommendation would be AMD RX480 unless you need 10-bit monitoring and want to take a chance on a Quadro delivering that from Vegas. But the Quadro probably won't be as good at general acceleration.

"redcolor 1 and 2, presently in RedCine-X I see Redcolor4, Dragoncolor2, Rec2020, Rec 709 and sRGB."

I agree with what you are saying. It must be a licensing thing, or RED is feeling the pressure to keep somethings proprietary so that you use Redcine-X. Either way, Vegas does not support those higher end color spaces directly, it instead supports ACES in EXR which is a much larger space to work in. That does not mean that the way plugins, FX, and what not are creative friendly.

The real problem is that cameras today can capture more information than our cheesy monitors can reproduce. even high end monitors still do not support the full range of capture. That is why log formats, LUTs, and all that hoop la exists. They are ways to squeeze and contort the image into a small box and make it look pretty good.

For example: ASUS ProArt PA32U Display: 4K, 1000 Nits Brightness, 95% DCI-P3, 85% Rec. 2020 - things are getting much better however. Not to long a long we were all happy with 95% support of sRGB space from a monitor.

To make things worse, 99% of people are happy as a clam with an 8-bit 4K experience, mainly because they "got a good deal" somewhere.

It will be interesting to see if Magix works to support pro levels, or just slides Vegas along side the other consumer NLEs they have on the product shelf.

**********

Here is content published by RED, and the Snowboarder graphic would put Vegas right after Red RAW, but the other picture curves would need to be hand build presets. ACES and EXR work in a linear color space.

http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/redlogfilm-redgamma

 

I personally would like to see the Video Scopes re-worked so that you could either set range values, and place scope markers, or select by image space standards. Also a scope option that allows monitoring a live source would be nice.

 

I am pretty sure that on the Red forum it was announced that Premiere Pro and Final Cut supported Dragoncolor pretty much as soon as it came out. No idea if Red charges for licensing. My suspicion is that Vegas has been updated by a very small team of programmers and that they need to incorporate a newer Red sdk, however they probably have far too many other things to update in Vegas

Please fix the Red camera color issue in Vegas to include the RedLogFilm.