RENDERING PROBLEM AVCHD 1920x1080-60i 5.1 Surround

Kevin Mc wrote on 2/2/2013, 9:48 PM
I am having a serious rendering problem. In Veg-12 Pro I just completed a video that is about 11 minutes long, using surround sound. The original footage was shot on a Canon HF-100. Codec: H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) (h264) ... as reported by VLC.

I am rendering this using Sony AVC/MVC - AVCHD 1920x1080-60i 5.1 Surround (default settings).

I have tested this video on my PS3 using a flash drive, and copying it to the PS3 HDD, AND over a TVersity media server from another Win7 computer on my network. I have also tested it in Win7 on WMP-12 and in VLC 2.0.4 (64bit).

In all cases, the video starts fine and the surround sound channels work perfectly. After about 2 minutes, the video starts to get jerky and ever so slowly the audio track becomes out of sync. By the end of the video, the audio track completes anywhere from 15 to 20 seconds too soon. Once the audio ends, the video speeds up as if to say, "Hey audio, don't finish without me!" The audio goes out of sync on each of the testing methods I listed above - at different times. The audio finished closer to the end of the video on the PS3 HDD version than it does in WMP-12 - where it finishes even sooner.

If I render just the ending (the final 1m:10s), or any small segment from the middle of the piece, they play perfectly fine and completely in sync. When these same segments are viewed during the full-length piece, they are jerky and out of sync.

I am editing on a 17" Dell Inspiron Gen-3 i5 6GB RAM. I am pretty sure the HDD is 5400 RPM. I am going to move this project to my main quad-core and render it there on my RAID-0 array of Western Digital Caviar Black drives to see if it isn't a computer issue.

Can anyone offer any insight?



musicvid10 wrote on 2/2/2013, 10:51 PM
1. You have not posted your rendered file properties as reported by MediaInfo. Without this information, it is impossible to determine the encoding parameters you chose.

2. PS3 only supports a maximum of 2-ref and 2-b frames. You are actually lucky to get only stuttery playback, and not a full crash if your encoding parameters are not dumbed down.

3. AVCHD is not a delivery format. It is a Transport Stream suitable for acquisition and streaming. This goes double for devices such as yours.

I recommend Handbrake over Vegas for the final encode, because you have full control over AVC output parameters. IOW, it works better.

Per advice on another forum, you can also try running your Vegas AVCHD file through TSMuxer, and see if it plays better.

john_dennis wrote on 2/2/2013, 11:09 PM
Here is a description of the Sony AVCHD render having the markers drift over time. Maybe it goes deeper than just the markers. I don't actually use that template, so I don't know for sure.

I'd suggest using the Sony AVC/MVC Blu-ray AVCHD 1920x1080-60i template for elementery stream video and the Dolby Digital AC3 Pro 5.1 Surround Sound template. After you have the elementery streams encoded, you can mux the video and audio to .ts or .m2ts using tsMuxer.
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/2/2013, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the reply...

1) I think I did post the rendered file properties (in essence) when I said I am using Veg12 Pro and then listed the exact rendering pre-set that I chose (using its default settings - no changes to the rendering template).

2) I play my AVCHD files straight from the Canon HF-100 on PS3 constantly without any of the issues you mentioned. They look sharp and incredibly awesome. But thank you for your insight on the frames. I will learn more about that.

3) If AVCHD is not a delivery format - what should I use to render 1920x1080 HD with 5.1 surround? I looked at all of the available codecs in Veg12, but could not find anything that was better suited for this job. I want the file to play on computers and PS3 - not on BluRay.

4) Can you expand on Handbrake? I am viewing their site now. What is the best process to get what I mentioned in bullet #3 above. I am guessing here, but should I render the BluRay files then use Handbrake to transcode them?

Thanks again for your help.
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/2/2013, 11:15 PM
Thank you John - I will try that now!
musicvid10 wrote on 2/2/2013, 11:38 PM
1. OK, make me look.
2. AVCHD plays poorly because it was not designed for that. Double for Sony AVCHD.
Did you try TSMuxer?
3. Render in Handbrake.
4. Handbrake accepts a variety of file types, not just BluRay. But John's suggestion is worth a try.
Handbrake supports 5.1 AC3 passthrough, saving time and any encoding losses.

A quick Google will reveal the limited file playback capabilities of the PS3.
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 12:10 AM
1. Made you look :)
2. I always learn something out here
3. I will try handbrake - but downloaded TSMuxer first - since you both mentioned it

Am re-rendering the BluRay files now and will work with both programs. I like that Handbrake uses the AC3 passthrough.

On my way to google PS3 playback now...
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 12:52 AM
Ok, I am really missing something here.

Vegas - I rendered Blu-Ray AVC file - as per John's instructions, and a Dolby 5.1 AC3 file. I checked the properties on the AC3 file and indeed it has 6 channels.

TSMuxer - I opened both files and tried all of the rendering options - it is only producing a 2-channel stereo file. However I will say, my video and audio are working nicely now and are in sync - but in stereo.

Handbrake - I open the video file - the go to audio tab and it says your source appears to have no audio tracks ...etc. It won't let me select the AC3 file.

What am I missing here?

This is a little new to me - be gentle :)

Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 1:10 AM
Stumbled onto something - tell me if I'm wrong. Used TSMuxer to create a BR Disk, which it did in just a few seconds. Now I can open the BR Disk in Handbrake and my 6 channel audio appears along with the video. About to render now.
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 12:18 PM
It works! Thanks to both of you very much.

In the event that anyone is reading this wondering how to do this - here's what I did. I am sure John and musicvid can correct these steps if they are wrong - but it worked for me:

1) Render video and audio separately to a new dedicated folder to keep them together
2) Render video the dedicated folder using Sony AVC/MVC to Blu-Ray 1920x1080-60i (you get an .AVC file)
3) Render audio to the same folder using Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound (you get a .AC3 file)
4) Use tsMuxeR (free software) to combine the video and audio by ADDING both the video track and the audio track to the top window, and select "Blu-ray disk" below as the output type
a. Create a folder under the dedicated render folder called something like "Blu-Ray Disk" and mux to that folder
5) Use Handbrake (free software) to read the Blu-Ray Disk folder - it will get both the audio and video
a. IMPORTANT: In Handbrake select "Source" menu - then the "Folder" option!!!
b. Point to the newly created Blu-Ray Disk Folder and give it a minute to open the files ... then...
c. Select "Browse" to choose an output folder and name your output file.
d. In the right column keep "Normal" selected (default), unless you're rendering for a device other than TV
e. Go to the audio tab and select "AC3 Passthru" to avoid further transcoding
f. Run it! … the end result is a working MP4 or MPV container that works
john_dennis wrote on 2/3/2013, 1:25 PM
"Used TSMuxer to create a BR Disk, which it did in just a few seconds."

You could have just created an M2TS file in tsMuxer from the Output Options line. That would be a single file as apposed to a Blu-ray disk structure. Since I don't use a PS 3, I just stop when I have a file that plays from a hard disk attached to my Blu-ray player.
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 1:43 PM
Hi John,

When I created the M2TS file - it only rendered with 2 channels of audio, instead of the six that I needed.


For anyone who is interested, here's the final piece:


Thanks to musicvid and John for making this possible!

john_dennis wrote on 2/3/2013, 2:11 PM
"When I created the M2TS file - it only rendered with 2 channels of audio, instead of the six that I needed."

Try it again when you're tinkering. All six channels passed tsMuxer to M2TS for me. Link
Kevin Mc wrote on 2/3/2013, 2:15 PM
Will do - thanks again John.