Comments

john_dennis wrote on 10/4/2014, 11:30 AM
As a backup, an internal disk won't save you from a lightning strike. You could use an internal drive in a hot swap bay and put it away between backups. "Away" would be another building or part of town in case of fire, flood, tornado or hurricane.

My main system:
Motherboard: Asus X99-AII
CPU: Intel i7-6850K
GPU: Sapphire Radeon RX480-8GB
RAM: Corsair Dominator (4 x 4 GB) DDR4 2400
Disk O/S & Programs: Intel SSD 750 (400 GB)
Disk Active Projects: 1TB & 2TB WD BLACK SN750 NVMe Internal PCI Express 3.0 x4 Solid State Drives
Disk Other: WD Ultrastar/Hitachi Hard Drives: WDBBUR0080BNC-WRSN, HGST HUH728080ALE600, 724040ALE640, HDS3020BLA642
Case: LIAN LI PC-90 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case
CPU cooling: Corsair Hydro series H115i
Power supply: SeaSonic SS-750KM3 750W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply
Drive Bay: Kingwin KF-256-BK 2.5" and 3.5" Trayless Hot Swap Rack with USB 3
Sound card: Crystal Sound 3 on motherboard. Recording done on another system.
Primary Monitor: Asus ProArt PA248q (24" 1920 x 1200)
O/S: Windows 10 Pro 22H2, Build 19045.2130

Camera: Sony RX10 Model IV

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedennischannel

GeeBax wrote on 10/4/2014, 5:40 PM
I would opt for a removable or hot swap caddy mounted in the computer, connected via SATA. And, as John advises, put it in another part of the house when not in use. The size of files that we use are large, and will take longer to write or read via a USB port, whereas a SATA port will be as fast as the computer is capable of.
VidMus wrote on 10/4/2014, 6:38 PM
@ Stringer,

I have two of those and they are great! Best for backups of system drives as well as important projects and getting files to and from large storage drives.

I use Casper for the cloning/backup. Making a backup IS something one MUST do before installing or updating any software. Well, if one does not make a backup, they will probably wish they had. I cannot count how many times a backup saved my system from disasters!

I use one for my NLE system and one for my notebook computer.


https://vimeo.com/channels/cocnwp
PeterDuke wrote on 10/4/2014, 6:44 PM
I see reference to "hot swap" from time to time. The one and only time I tried hot swapping (hot removing in this case) a SATA drive, Win 7 fell to its knees. I haven't been game to try again in case I lose some data.

I also had some drama with my TV and a USB drive, but that is another story.
[r]Evolution wrote on 10/4/2014, 6:53 PM
eXternal USB 3 would be ubiquitous with most all workstations. You'd have good speed as well as portability if/when needed.
ushere wrote on 10/4/2014, 6:56 PM
i'm happy enough with external usb3 drives - they're cheap, easily available, understood by none tech people / clients, and so far have proved extremely reliable and resilient.

i have no desire to add more noise and power requirements to an already loaded system, nor have a larger case than is absolutely necessary - in fact, my aim is to minimise as much of the clutter and space required by hardware as possible. going minimalistic in my old age ;-)

i also don't really see any need for hot swap in MY workflow - never have*.

*all my 'peripheral' material is stored on a nas, imported to project as needed, and also eventually backed up with the project to a ex usb hd.

btw. backup is weekly to internal separate 'data' hd alternating with external usb since there's very little change to my system between times. the usb is stored elsewhere - as jd so rightly pointed out, lightning is no respecter of circuits ;-(
Stringer wrote on 10/5/2014, 2:36 PM
" Hot Swap " is really a misnomer in the sense that if the drive is active within the system, data loss/corruption is always a possibility.. I believe the original intent was to support drive removal/replacement without having to power down the system.

True " hot swap " is desirable for RAID systems where you can replace a failed drive and not have to shut down the system..

With the eSATA and USB docks, you have the option to " eject " the drive before removing. I have never had a problem with data loss/corruption when using the " eject " feature, when available.
Chienworks wrote on 10/5/2014, 3:57 PM
Quite true. Hot swap is really only applicable to systems that have some degree of mirroring. You're not using it to eject a drive, but replace it with a new one that will then receive the same data that was on the removed drive.

If you want to change drives to have different data available then this is an eject and mount, similar to any removable storage media, and not a hot swap.
Steve Mann wrote on 10/5/2014, 6:27 PM
The "Eject" operation is not needed on a hard- disk drive in a docking station.

If Windows thinks the drive is "Removable", then you should make it a habit to "Eject" the drive before removing it. No hard-disk drive will be determined to be a "Removable" drive.

(Try it: Start, cmd, diskpart, list volume, look at the "Type" column.)

The "Eject" operation flushes the write cache and unallocates the drive letter from Windows. But it is unnecessary for hard-disk drives. There isn't even an option in the context menu if you right-click on a drive in the Computer window (Start, Computer).

Hot Swap has nothing to do with data - Stringer is correct that How Swap means the ability to remove a device without powering down. Hot-Swap connections were in use before there was data - notice that the ground pin on your AC cords are longer to make sure that the appliance is grounded before applying power. Thunderbolt and USB are Hot-Swap because the ground pins are longer than the data pins.

[IMG=http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1421565/Vegas/usb195_combined_200x200.jpg]

If you look at the connections on the power connector of an SSD you will see some of them are longer than the others - those are the ground connections and they connect before the power or data pins. Which, in theory, makes them Hot Swappable.

[IMG=http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1421565/Vegas/toshiba_ssd_sata.jpg]


Rob Franks wrote on 10/6/2014, 7:13 AM
"The "Eject" operation flushes the write cache and unallocates the drive letter from Windows. But it is unnecessary for hard-disk drives. There isn't even an option in the context menu if you right-click on a drive in the Computer window (Start, Computer)."

Yes and no. It all depends on how you have the drive set up. If I right click on "safely remove hardware, it gives me a list of devices. In that list INCLUDES my HDD's.... so the option to "eject" sata hdd's is most definitely there.

[IMG=http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt245/Bob_sanders/Untitled_zps59808922.jpg]

Now, if you go to your device manager (your HDD section) you can set up each drive to disable write cache ) specifically so that you don't have to "eject" before removing. It's suggested that you do this for any drive that you will be removing on a regular basis.

Interestingly enough, my latest hard drive is not on the list . A 3TB drive, but then it's GPT and not MBR so that may have something to do with it.
TeetimeNC wrote on 10/6/2014, 7:31 AM
If the new drive is greater than 2TB, and if your backup program requires 512 byte sector sizes you may need to connect it internally since some external connections don't support 512 byte sector sizes on >2TB drives.

/jerry
Rob Franks wrote on 10/6/2014, 7:49 AM
These are ALL "internal" drives, including the new one (by internal I mean SATA)
PeterDuke wrote on 10/6/2014, 6:02 PM
"It all depends on how you have the drive set up. If I right click on "safely remove hardware, it gives me a list of devices."

How have you got your drives set up?

If I have certain USB devices connected (my still camera is not one of them), the "Safely remove hardware" icon appears, but right-clicking on it only lists those USB devices. This is for both Win XP and Win 7.
Stringer wrote on 10/6/2014, 6:52 PM
I would like to know also " How have you got your drives set up? "

The drives I have connected to my main board SATA connectors do not show an eject option.

I have write-caching disabled - and I even have an option in the BIOS to make the ports " Hot Swap'able ".. but still no " Safely remove " on the desktop for those drives...
Rob Franks wrote on 10/6/2014, 10:04 PM
"The drives I have connected to my main board SATA connectors do not show an eject option."
Mine do.
Now it MAY have something to do with the fact that I'm running the drives through icydock drive bays, but I'm not sure how the computer would tell the difference. Each drive slides into the bay.. but then each bay has its own sata cable going to a dedicated sata port on the mobo (My mobo has 8 on board sata ports).

You can clearly see in the pics the sata cables from each bay set connecting to its own sata port on the board.

[IMG=http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt245/Bob_sanders/20140729_073537_zps27c747a1.jpg]

[IMG=http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt245/Bob_sanders/20140728_065535_zps63e209e5.jpg]
CJB wrote on 10/7/2014, 12:32 AM
Icy Dock ToughArmour is a nice drive bay for swap-able SSD. SATA makes for fast drive.