...they think I'm a bloody idiot for paying for my apps

All right. You throw the first stone :-)

I don't think any religion sanctions stealing. Some countries have not ratified international agreements on copyright, but that does not mean that their inhabitants can help themselves to whatever they want without paying for it. I mean, just because the US won't sign the agreement on a supernational court for war criminals (unlike the good countries), that does not put US soldiers above international law (and justice) - or does it?

I think it's beyond reasonable doubt that Chary1 has tried to obtain a serial number he's not entitled to. His intention however, may (or may not) have been to only use it within a 30 day trial period. He has not broken any law in this case.
He has presented a problem to the forum and like any other person he should get an answer in plain English explaining what would be the right thing for him to do. That he has got. If he want to explain his problem more in detail, he can do so and possibly get an even better answer. It's up to him.

Tor

A person further up this threadsaid that there is no way on earth that he can or will be able to afford the $1500 for after effects, so is using a cracked/ripped copy.
If this is so and he cant not afford it, as a lot of people cant, then there is no way at all that he will be buying the original software,so can someone explain to me how Adobe are losing out by him using a cracked copy???

just curios
regards
Simon

A person further up this threadsaid that there is no way on earth that he can or will be able to afford the $1500 for after effects, so is using a cracked/ripped copy.
If this is so and he cant not afford it, as a lot of people cant, then there is no way at all that he will be buying the original software,so can someone explain to me how Adobe are losing out by him using a cracked copy???

just curious
regards
Simon

I used the "religion" line as an analogy...

I used the "religion" line as an analogy...

I knew that. I only aproposed it.

Tor

It's so simple really.

I can't afford After Effects either, therefore I don't have After Effects.

The same with Rolls Royces.

"If this is so and he cant not afford it, as a lot of people cant, then there is no way at all that he will be buying the original software,so can someone explain to me how Adobe are losing out by him using a cracked copy???"

If there wasn't cracked copies available on the net or elsewhere(for argument's sake) then he would save up the $$ until he could, or he would get a less upscale product that he could afford, possibly from Adobe. That is how cracks hurt companies. He's using a cracked version of Adobe.
Just because he's using a cracked version of a product he CAN'T afford, does that make it better? What if he was using a cracked copy of Video Factory? Would you be putting him down then? How do you know he doesn't have the money to cover the expence? Just because he says he can't afford it? My daughter will ask me for 10-20$ items sometimes, and I tell her I can't afford it...doesn't mean I don't have the 20$. It's needed elsewhere that I judge more important. Maybe that's his case.
This is besides the fact that if he is selling services using this software, he's also hurting local business people who have to factor in the cost of the software in the prices they charge their customers.

Bottom line... His parents should have tried to do a better job teaching their child about morals.

¢¢

You know---I'm a bit older then most in here---and I am not going to say that the good old days were better then today----but I will say that we do live in a culture of non-accountability---where one can make an excuse for everything.

I assure you that if a Rolls Royce wasn't as conspicuous and easy to steal some of these jokers would do it----Then they would say something like---well, a Rolls Royce is too expensive so I stole it--Or if I steal the Rolls Royce and like it, I will tell my friends about it and they will all buy Rolls Royces---Or, I can bad-mouth the Rolls and help the fellows over at Bentley--or BMW---Unbelieveable world we live in.

If you steal a Rolls Royce, you are costing RR money directly because THAT car cost money. Software is different. Making it costs money (equiv to R&D) but manufacturing it is free. I stole a copy. That copy cost nothing. Your analogy is invalid.

What I find amazing, is how you church-goers are so upset about this. Have you never used software you didn't pay for? Did you never use Napster? Do you use Gnuetella? Have you ever taken audio off a CD in Vegas to add to your project? Did you pay the artist? Sure you did.

But let me digress to my original point. Using a pirated copy of software increases the user base. Period. That is why Maya gives their $6000 product out for free. That's why you can get Adobe After Effects for $500 if you're a student. Don't be stupid about what makes software companies happy. They are happy when they make a sale AND they are happy when their user base grows. I work for a software company (I'm a developer, in fact) and I know this is true.

We all know that Premier is garbage compared to VV. One of the major reasons Premier is so much huger than VV is that you can get a free copy of it anywhere.

You clowns should go buy a book by Richard Stallman. If you've never heard of him, he wrote the GPL. He also wrote the first open source C compiler that Linus used to write an entire OS with. Stallman will give you some intersting thoughts about how software and hardware differ, and why treating them as the same type of property is not only rediculous, but imposible.

Sorry Matt, but your Reason just doesn't jive.

So I guess as a developer for software, you give your work away for free also.

Dave T2

"Software is different. Making it costs money (equiv to R&D) but manufacturing it is free. I stole a copy. That copy cost nothing. Your analogy is invalid."

The software companies rely on the sale of their product to pay for the "R&D". The sales pay for tech support, the internet site, and everything else that the software company needs in order to stay in business.
There is no grey area...it's either legal or illegal. Try to justify it all you want, it's still stealing. As a matter of fact, just the fact that you need to justify it should be a clear indication that it's wrong.

M

Every software company knows that there's a percentage of the public that uses the product without paying for it.

I'm not going to argue with you guys about weather or not stealing is wrong. It's definatly wrong. I was offering up a slightly different perspective. Software companies want their stuff out there.

If you asked an Adobe Exec if he'd like either:
a) to have sold 1 million copies and have had 1 million copies pirated
or
b) to have sold 1 million copies.

He would chose A. That's all I'm saying.

To the guy who made a pun on my name - Very clever!!! Don't you think with a name like Coxe you're in a bit of a glass house? Jesus.

I agree with theigloo.
Before I could afford it, I used Vegas 2 ilegally for 1 year. That was when I was studying Cinema and needed an NLE to edit my movies. During that 1 year I conviced 5 people to buy the software, one of which actually switched from MAC (he had a nice G4) to PC in order to edit with VV.
When I finished my studies and got my first corporative jobs, I bought Vegas 3 (my first job paid the program).
So I don't feel bad that I stole the program for 1 year since I made some publicity for it actively.

--Before I could afford it, I used Vegas 2 ilegally for 1 year. That was when I was studying Cinema and needed an NLE to edit my movies. During that 1 year I conviced 5 people to buy the software, one of which actually switched from MAC (he had a nice G4) to PC in order to edit with VV.

LOL!
Well that's it, I'm officially sold. I'm never paying for another piece of software again... ;)

Seriously though-- I haven't heard a bigger bunch of BS in a LONG time. I'm so proud of you for being so damn noble-- 'I pirate so that I can sell myself and other people on the software,' or some such. Come on now...
Here's another point of view:

Get a job.

I'm CURRENTLY a student... studying Communications (it's close enough to cinema for this comparison). I have a wife & a daughter (which is more expensive than you'll EVER be prepared for!). I have rent payments, car payments, and everything else. I ALSO need an NLE to get work done on a regular basis.

So I work.

I'd never consider stealing the software, no more than I'd consider buying a CD-R full of SoFo loops off of eBay.

And I do my best to convert everyone at work to Vegas.

So please, I'd love to know how the end justifies the means. Or, more specifically, why I am able to afford these things and you cannot.

David.

It's another point of view that's it.... I'm glad to hear you could afford VV right away even with your wife that costs a lot. Also I HAVE a job, but I couldn't afford the program with 35 hours of school per week + my job to pay my appartment and food. But in that one year I learned the program upside down so now I can help people with it, and I actually bought it when I got my first paying video job. So I can't feel guilty about it. I would feel guilty if I was using the program and made money with it without ever paying for it.

This is why my sisters, one who is married to a lawyer, and one who is married to a minister, home-school. I guess this is what they teach in the schools now, something I've heard labeled as "situational ethics." (If I can make up a reason to do it, and pretend it's not hurting anyone, then it's okay!)

There's a awful lot of black and white in this discussion. I suggest we switch to the topic of whether its OK to steal to feed your hungry child if you can't get the money to buy the food. Oh wait, it's stealing, of course it's wrong.

--There's a awful lot of black and white in this discussion. I suggest we switch to the topic of whether its OK to steal to feed your hungry child if you can't get the money to buy the food. Oh wait, it's stealing, of course it's wrong.

Oh how tired! Surely you can do better than that...
I'll make you a deal-- show me anyone that starved from being without Vegas, or any other app. for that matter, and I'll buy it for them. No questions asked.

David.

OK, how about a psychopathic video editor has told you he will kill your child unless you steal him a copy of Vegas.

"I suggest we switch to the topic of whether its OK to steal to feed your hungry child if you can't get the money to buy the food. Oh wait, it's stealing, of course it's wrong."

Yes, it's wrong!!! Tell me, did you offer the person you stole from, to work for the food??
Now we're getting into psychopatic killers??? To justify stealing Vegas?? Too rich!!

M