It's gonna take a fair bit of my available time to learn the new things that ARE included ....

I kind of feel that too much effort has gone into the gee whiz kind of stuff that makes for good marketing copy. Most of what's been added, at least in Vegas, you could always do either in 3rd party apps or with free plugins.
But and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, no attentions seems to have given to the core editing functionality.

Ripple Edit still doesn't work right.
It would seem that you can still get A/V out of sync way too easily, particularly when in Ripple Edit.
Media Management hasn't been given any attention.
EDL support still doesn't exist
Still no machine (RS422) control.

Now none of this has major impact on me but if all I did was edit day in, day out I think I'd have a hard time staying with Vegas. Certainly getting up on a stage to announce that any of these now work is hardly rivetting stuff, anyone that didn't know Vegas might be a bit taken aback to realise that it had taken this many major releases to get them to work!

Bob

>But and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, no attentions seems to have given to the core editing functionality.

>Ripple Edit still doesn't work right.
I rarely use it. I preferred the "old" ripple edit tool.

>It would seem that you can still get A/V out of sync way too easily, particularly when in Ripple Edit.
Never happened to me.

>Media Management hasn't been given any attention.
ummm... Sub clips?

>EDL support still doesn't exist
don't have a need for it

>Still no machine (RS422) control.
nor that

To me Vegas has always been a replacement for AfterFX and Premiere. I guess I feel like this upgrade has been just for me :)

One of the sony reps told me that Blackmagic is working with Sony Vegas. I asked him about cineform, since they have a vegas plugin, but, he couldn't confirm any support from sony. go figure.

>> Media Management hasn't been given any attention.
> ummm... Sub clips?

Subclips are just a small improvement here. The use is very liminted. It only works on single clips. No direct renaming if used from within the timeline. This is still behind what other NLEs offer for a kind of Subclips. If them had the full power this feature would have been a approach to what others offers for many years now. And still there are some major lacks in media managements.

Nevertheless I like the Subclip-Feature. Hope there will be some improvement done to it ...

Marco

>This is still behind what other NLEs offer for a kind of Subclips.

I'm not sure what you mean by direct renaming from the timeline. All I can say is for me, the biggest headache in media management has been eliminated. Sub clips behave precisely the way I expect. They make using the velocity envelope easier too.

I understand why you want more, I just can't agree that nothing has been done for media management when my biggest problem has been solved. And as for other NLE's, well... I don't like 'em! ;D

EDIT: Top request for 5.0b = bezier handles on the keyframes / envelope points :D C'mon please?! The presets (Slow/Fast/Smooth/whatever) never work well enough for me. That would really stick it to the "Vegas is an NLE" whiners. heheh...

>> I'm not sure what you mean by direct renaming from the timeline.

When you create a subclip from the timeline you cannot rename it in the same process. You first have to create the subclip, then you have to go to the MediaPool and rename the clip there.
Different it is if you use subclips from the trimmer. Here you are immediately prompted to rename the clip what I find better for organize-facilities.

Marco

Good point. Seems inconsistent. I would have expected it to name the sub clip based on my Active Take Name, but that is ignored and replaced with an auto-generated name. So I guess Sub Clips could be improved right off the bat - unless I'm missing something.

you can rename from the timeline.

To do this:

1. Right click on the event
2. From the context menu that appears go to takes submenu
3. Choose "Rename active"
4. you will see a scribble strip on the event that you can use to rename.

HTH

ivan

I see... so I just have to do it in reverse order from the way I've been doing it -

edit: but it still doesn't get renamed in the media pool using that method.

Thanks, this works fine for the timeline itself. But for mediamanagement in the MediaPool you would have to rename again in the MediaPool. I think it would be nice if renaming a clip in the timeline would automatically rename same clip in the MediaPool.

Marco

Cheesehole,
it seems you don't work on long form projects. Certainly most of the things I'm talking about have absolutely no place in many environments. But just as you see certain things as unimportant doesn't mean they aren't of vital interest to others.
To date the items that I mentioned aren't exactly show stoppers for me BUT I know how vital they are to those who work at the serious end of this business.
Those people don't even bother to read this forum much less post here but they are the ones who need to be drawn to this product if its to break out of its mould. i sing the praises of Vegas every day to anyone who'll listen but and this is the big but, without the features I'm talking about they just aren't listening. Many of them have Vegas, they even use it from time to time but it certainly isn't their main tool.

I've done a lot of work with Vegas, I've no complaints, I've made my investment back many times over and I'll say right away V5 is great value for the money. But the history of software is littered with thousands of programs that had loyal followers but simply faded away because they failed to attract those outside their core userbase. I don't want to see that happen to Vegas, at its core is an engine that's capable of beating anything else out there and can be made into a much more capable product.
After all what matters isn't what we here think of it, we're already committed, it's what those who aren't here think that matters most, where they spend they're bucks is what'll determine the viability of Vegas in the medium term.

> Ripple Edit still doesn't work right.

I’ve suggested a redesign to this in other threads. I don’t know what you were referring to by “doesn’t work right” but for me it’s the way ripple edit adds the transitions times together. I can’t think of a single scenario where I’d want this to happen.

It would be nice if a future release could give us the option of having the ripple preserve the length of the left transition time, the right transition time, or add them together like it does now.

~jr

it seems you don't work on long form projects. Certainly most of the things I'm talking about have absolutely no place in many environments. But just as you see certain things as unimportant doesn't mean they aren't of vital interest to others.

I said that I understand why people want more media management, but you can't say they did nothing when they gave us sub clips.

I've done a lot of work with Vegas, I've no complaints, I've made my investment back many times over and I'll say right away V5 is great value for the money.

Then stop worrying so much. There's an interesting book called the Virtue of Selfishness. As you can imagine, it seems we humans are best at making decisions for ourselves, and less good at figuring out exactly what other people want.

Take names and media file names are 2 different things...

Are we allowed to install VV5+DVD2 on multiple machines as we could with VV4+DVD1 as long as we only run on the number of licenses we have?

I am probably the most exicted about Vegas working with the Black Magic cards. Even on an "unofficial" level that would mean hardware support.

As for the other things - I would love more robust EDL support and always say that. I did not hold out for it in this verison but with all the push and talk about Sony and "Ride the HD wave" I was hoping for it. In the past people have used Premiere Pro as an example, to me anyway, that companies are phasing out EDL support. Well, Adobe has just shown Premiere Pro 1.5 and guess what? They put back the EDL support. Clearly enough people spoke out to Adobe after they dumped it.

The big disapointment to me so far has been something that people have asked for, and I swear certian people said Version 5 incuded - Nesting. And now I am thinking that these people felt that allowing for sub-clips in a clip was the same as timeline nesting. And it isn't. For those of us who do long form and lot of editing and re-arranging, nesting would be a godsend.

I could live with out the HKI personally.

I'm with you filmy, nesting would make my workflow MUCH faster (and it's already quite fast)

I can't argue with the first 3 but it seems like EDL is a bit of a moving target anyway. So, given that EDL demands are different from system to system and that the current base of user needing EDL isn't huge, I'm not surprised that nothing was done. However, I think that the Vegas user base is becoming a bit more sophisticated and the need for EDL/OMF/XML is coming along very soon. The upcoming Decklink support is probably going to drive a lot of this.

Similarly, RS422 support isn't much use if you don't have either rgb conversion or SDI support along with it. Again, Decklink cards will drive this and it looks as though we can expect support for them in a month or two. In the mean time I understand that Laird sells a box that will translate 1394 deck control to RS422 control as well as converting the incoming signal to DV25. Not exactly what people should be looking for - you could do better than DV25, but it's what's available.

So...wait a bit. And use the feature request page on this site to ask for things. I see at least one thing in V5 that I had asked for on the feature request page, so I think it works.

Most of the major stuff in V5 has probably been in development for the last year. Most of the major things in V6 are probably being decided on over the next month if not already. I think we're damned lucky to get new features in minor revs. The Madison team released what they could for NAB and as near as I can tell it all works. Major stuff we were asking for mid-cycle seem pretty unlikely to gel.

Look Ma, no crashes!

Rob Mack

I'm assuming you can also apply mediaFX to the subclips. That's actually pretty big once you get in the habit. Subclips will definitely change the way you do things.

Rob Mack

Bezier handles for envelopes.

Yes! Very reasonable.

Rob Mack

Which then renames the file on the disk-unless it's a subclip, of course.

Rob Mack