Sony Full HD 3D Rendering - Is it possible?

Comments

nsbma wrote on 2/5/2012, 11:06 AM
I didn’t mentioned 720 formats because we spoke about full resolution rendering. According to www.camcorderinfo.com tests Sony HDR-TD10 in 3D mode has resolution of 625H*600V lines per image – so I agree with Wolfgang S that 720 formats may be interesting in case of this camera. I will give it a try some day.
Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/6/2012, 4:06 AM
That is a beliefe of many people that "full resolution" is much better then 720p - but knowing the backgrounds better that is a wrong believe. It is not even so much about a static measurement of lines - but also the background knowledge that an interlaced format will show always interline flicker, especially for motion resolution will drop down.

So, to avoid render artefacts when rendering 1080 60i/50i to 1080 24p, a better solution may be to render to 720 60p/50p.

But try it....

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

MattAdamson wrote on 2/8/2012, 3:21 AM
Hi All,

I still cannot render anything that will play back in 3D mode on either my PS3 or dedicated blu ray player. I've also tried the 720P template from the burn blu ray option as Wolf Gang recommended. I must be doing something wrong however I can't see what it is :)

To make it easier I've added screenshot of all the settings I've used in the link below. I'd really appreciate if you can review and let me know any obvious mistakes

Thanks

Matt

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=45c8f396c6b26c3a&resid=45C8F396C6B26C3A!312&parid=45C8F396C6B26C3A!311
MattAdamson wrote on 2/9/2012, 3:42 PM
I'm actually so determined to find a solution to this I'm prepared to put up a £20 paypal reward for the first person who can find a solution to my issue. If I can't produce editted video on this camera it's pretty much a waste of 1000 pounds
Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/10/2012, 2:03 AM
The 32 bit floating point is not necessary - you are using a 8bit camcorder. Beside that the settings seems to be fine.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/10/2012, 2:26 AM
Matt,

could you upload 2-3 short 3D clips from your TD10? Can be some seconds only, but it is important that there is a clear 3D video in it. Please no clips trimmed in the TD10!!!

Save that in a small separate 3D project-veg file, and upload that too.

Use these clips to generate a 3D BD iso and upload the iso.

Post us here the download links. If you have no webspace you could use http://www.file-upload.net/, but be aware that theres is a limit to 100 MB for each upload.

We could check the project file, the clips and the ISO on our equipment and give you feedback if it works here. I will be able to do that on Sunday only (then I am away for another week).

Beside that, there is no paypal reward required.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

nsbma wrote on 2/10/2012, 11:43 AM
It seams to me that dark places looks a little better after 32 bit rendering - so if the rendering goes well I use it all the time. Matt, I also can try to render your files. I have 32 bit 10e on one computer and 64 bit 10e and 64 bit 11 on another.
MattAdamson wrote on 2/12/2012, 5:26 AM
Thanks Wolfgang, I really appreciate that

I've uploaded the following files

20120104133603.m2ts - The exact source file from the TD10 camera
3dtest.iso - The blu ray burnt image file using the 720p option.
3dtest.veg - Vegas 10 project file

ftp://matta.dyndns.org - Use the anoynomous user and you should find the files in Public
Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/12/2012, 12:50 PM
Hi Matt,

have downloaded your files and done following checks:

- the project file can be opened in Vegas Pro 10e 64 bit but also Vegas Pro 11 (build 521 64 bit)
- project settings are fine for 3D
- the TD10 file is imported in a correct way
- on my 3D editing place, I see a clear 3D effect with nvidia 3D vision and an 120 Hz monitor
- burned your 720 50p ISO to BD-RE, I have been able to see the 3D effect without any problems. Playback was done with a Panasonic 3D Blu Ray player, the Panasonic BDT100, using a 3D HDTV - the Panasonic TX-P50VT20. The footage was recognized as both 720 50p and 3D as shown on the HDTV.

So, I can confirm that the footage from the TD10 you use is right in terms of 3D. And I can confirm that the ISO is a 3D ISO and shows a clear 3D effect too.

Since we have excluded everything from the acquisition of the footage until the BD-ISO generation, that means that your issue must be related to your playback equipment - 3D HDTV or the 3D Blu Ray Player or something like a cable used here? I am still not sure about your PS3 - but I am not familiar with 3D and the PS3 really.

But the good news are that both the footage and the ISO are in 3D. So you are doing the right things in Vegas. Since that is checked now, I recommend to check the playback hardware.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

MattAdamson wrote on 2/12/2012, 2:38 PM
Thanks very much Wolfgang

Funnily enough I have the exact same blu ray player and television as you.

However when I attempt to play with the BDT100 player I get a message such as "unknown format" from the disc.

I used a standard DVD-R disc however if the folders / files are created in the correct structure I don't see why this should matter.

When the disc is inserted into the PS3 it doesnt recognise as a blu ray disc though and do anything special it just shows you the folders.

Perhaps this part is failing in some way. However I simply took the iso file and used the windows 7 option to burn to disc when I double clicked the file.

How do you burn from iso to the disc? Have you used DVD's before?
Wolfgang S. wrote on 2/12/2012, 11:06 PM
For DVD, the BDMV structure is not specified really. Use Bd-R or BD-RE and it will work.

Desktop: PC AMD 3960X, 24x3,8 Mhz * RTX 3080 Ti (12 GB)* Blackmagic Extreme 4K 12G * QNAP Max8 10 Gb Lan * Resolve Studio 18 * Edius X* Blackmagic Pocket 6K/6K Pro, EVA1, FS7

Laptop: ProArt Studiobook 16 OLED * internal HDR preview * i9 12900H with i-GPU Iris XE * 32 GB Ram) * Geforce RTX 3070 TI 8GB * internal HDR preview on the laptop monitor * Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K mini

HDR monitor: ProArt Monitor PA32 UCG-K 1600 nits, Atomos Sumo

Others: Edius NX (Canopus NX)-card in an old XP-System. Edius 4.6 and other systems

MattAdamson wrote on 2/19/2012, 4:38 PM
Thanks Wolfgang,

Yes I just assumed you could simply generate a DVD from an ISO and it didn't matter if the ISO created the structure. It just meant that a blu ray could store more video data. I've just ordered my first blu ray writer ( as had no requirement up to now ) with some re writable discs. Fingers cross it will work when it arrives.

Also picking up an earlier point I'd still like to produce 1080p 3d video rather than 720p. I know you mentioned it's similar however I did purchase the camera for the higher resolution when I already had the old Panasonic side by side 3d camera. The resolution of side by side is only slightly lower than 720p so I'm not sure it's so benefical. If I use the blu ray burn option for 1080p 3d do I simply follow the same process except select the template MVC 1920 24p 25 Mbps?
nsbma wrote on 2/20/2012, 7:24 AM
I compared rendering to 1080/24p and 720/60p – here are my results:
1) People, walking on a distance from the camera – both results are good.
2) People, crossing lens axis close to the camera – 1080 – motion artifacts, 720 – ideal video.
3) City cars – 1080 – cars jumps like frogs – doesn’t moves smoothly, 720 – ideal video.
4) Static scenes – landscapes, slow camera pans, walking people, followed by camera – 1080 is noticeable more sharp also 720 lost some contrast.

Conclusion: Most of my video is vacation video consisted of landscapes, people, who totally relax. and moving cars that are faraway. I will continue to stay with 1080. But for something like sport 720 may be a better choice.
nsbma wrote on 2/29/2012, 8:07 AM
There is one more situation when rendering in Vegas to 3D 720/60p is much better than to 3D 1080/24p - it is 2D to 3D conversion. The conversion makes motion and camera pan artifacts more bad.
Here are the best ways of the conversion I discovered so far:
1) 2D SD NTSC movie to Left and Right SD 30p using DVDFab (the best converter of 3 I tried); Rendering Left and Right in Vegas to 3D 720/60p
2) 2D HD my NTSC video to L and R 1080/30p using DVDFab; Rendering in Vegas to 720/60p
relaxvideo wrote on 11/21/2020, 7:39 AM

Matt: you can render to two separate 1080i files, left and right. Watching in 2D you only open the left file. Watching in 3D you have to use Stereoscopic player open left/right function.

I'm also interested in how can i place that 2 streams in one file, and playback in 2D with regular mediaplayers but playback in 3D when needed. Also it should be opened/edited by Vegas :)

WMV, MK3D? (Vegas won't open)

Dual stream mp4 exist?!

 

Yeah, after 8 years, i still do and love 3D :)

Last changed by relaxvideo on 11/21/2020, 7:39 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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3d87c4 wrote on 11/21/2020, 2:11 PM

I've used several approaches to rendering 3D SBS Full and top/bottom Full 3D 360 VR videos:

You can render the left and right views separately, then combine them using FFMPEG.

For the last few years I've been rendering them using the x264VFW codec. This is slow, but works. The audio and video don't, necessarily, render in sync so I render them separately (I discussed this in another thread a year or two ago) and combine them in FFMPEG.

More recently, I've rendered 3D SBS full videos using the Happy Otter Scripts.

If you want to upload the 3D SBS full videos to YouTube you need to add the appropriate metadata. This can be done during the x264vfw and Happy Otter renders or after the fact using ffmpeg.

 

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relaxvideo wrote on 11/21/2020, 2:24 PM

Thanks

So with ffmpeg we can have more video streams in one file. But which app can this playback as 3D video?

If i render to 3D SBS full format, how can i watch it as 2D video? :)

MVC was good idea, but sadly it doesnt support 1080/50-60p.

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Win10 x64, Vegas22 latest

3d87c4 wrote on 11/22/2020, 6:44 PM

I generally upload to YouTube. On my computer I usually just freeview sbs full videos, but sView can be used too:

http://www.sview.ru/en/download/

 

Del XPS 17 laptop

Processor    13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-13900H   2.60 GHz
Installed RAM    32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)
System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch    Touch support with 10 touch points

Edition    Windows 11 Pro
Version    22H2
Installed on    ‎6/‎8/‎2023
OS build    22621.1848
Experience    Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22642.1000.0

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Laptop GPU
Driver Version: 31.0.15.2857
8GB memory