"It really does defy belief how insular people can be in this respect. I mean, do they really think they are making it up or something? I would really like to know."

Is it the program.... the machine.... or the operator?

What you don't seem to understand is that most people run into a problem and instantly blame the program WITHOUT bothering to answer the above question. This is what Sony deals with all the time BTW. It's not a wonder why they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt.

SEBAZ the other day faced this issue. Calling Vegas and SCS a bunch of insulting names and carrying on.... Come to find out (after people telling him it may be machine problems) he ran memory tests and sure enough he found a bad memory stick. He did of course apologize for his jumping to conclusions.

I have an issue with capturing and I don't use Vegas capture anymore because of it. I have in the past mentioned that I think Vegas capture is weak and needs improvement, but that's as far as I have gone because I can't prove that Vegas is the problem. There are only a handful of people having the problems I do.... most others are not

Is it frustrating? Sure as hell is, but it's one of those "sink holes" that you fall in with no bottom. I'm an Engineer by profession and I spend a lot of time troubleshooting various issues. One of the first things I look for when troubleshooting is a pattern of some kind somewhere, and if there is no pattern then you're in deep doo doo because the troubleshooting becomes more one of luck than problem solving...... and luck never comes very easily. Now the SCS boys are not dumb.... they know this, and there is one pattern that seems to emerge from most of these various bugs, and that is that they're NOT happening to everybody, so it CAN'T be purely a program problem. It would seem to suggest a combination of other variables.... but WHICH ONES (and there are hundreds to pick from)..... that is the 64 thousand dollar question (if you pardon the pun). The task of troubleshooting now becomes VERY complicated and almost impossible without a bit of luck and trial/error testing.

Now is SCS listening? Sure they are.... the recent m2ts DLL beta is proof of that. The fact that we got a new titler is proof of that. They are listening and solving what they can. But what they can do WITHOUT is a bunch of people jumping to conclusions, blaming the program with a bunch of non specific rubbish. They have enough to do and they just tune it out..... and rightfully so.

Blink, if you are holding up the Protitler as an example of them listening, you really are completely off the pace here. The protitler was insanely buugy on release, and I doubt very many people have tried to use it much past then.

Many of us have been using creative software for many years. We know what to expect in terms of reliability. Pointing the finger at users for what is clearly software problems is crazy. How could a user create the black and red frame problem? How could a user cause the lock up of menus that I am always getting? how coud la user create the Blu-ray path GUI bug?

DeusX - Stable means it runs on lots of machine stabley. If it is not stable on a bunch of machines, then it is not stable.

John Cline, do you really think my eloquent posts depict someone who is making unreasonable and irrational claims? If so, could you highlight them for me please?

Correct me if I am wrong.

The thread got deleted when the personal attacks started against fellow forum members, a clear violation of forum rules. This has happened in the past with other topics of cosmic significance such as Blu-Ray vs HD DVD.

John

I do not recall there being personal attacks on there. There was a lot of me being called a whinger and so on. Either way, it was a massive thread with lots of very good posts in it makign many valid points. You can contrive a personal attack out of most long threads if you wish to delete other comments that you don't like the look of.

Also worth mentioning that there is still a thread on here openly asking people who are complaining to go away. Is that not a personal attack of sorts? That didn't get clipped even though it was there at the same time.

"Blink, if you are holding up the Protitler as an example of them listening, you really are completely off the pace here. The protitler was insanely buugy on release, and I doubt very many people have tried to use it much past then."

If you expect perfection the first time around then I am sorry to say that YOU have the problem....not SCS.

My expectation is that it is usable. The protitler was not usable on release due to the huge number of critical bugs in it. When it was released there were very many complaints about it on this very forum.

Am I the only one that feels Sony set their releases for Vegas by releasing whatever build is available on the day of the start of a trade show?

"My expectation is that it is usable. "

Whan Avid Liquid 7 came out it was COMPLETELY and TOTALLY broken.... no word of a lie, You just simply couldn't use it for anything more than a toy. You couldn't even produce a disk from it. It was like it went straight from the drawing board onto the disk with no betas testing what so ever. It took and entire year of patching to get this thing to the point of usability. In fact this is what brought me over to Sony. I spent $1000 on a totally broken program and I wasn't ever going to do it again with Avid.

I don't say this as an excuse for Sony but it does show you the other side of the fence.

The pro titler WAS usable. Yes... it had some problems.... but it worked, and Sony has now taken care of most of the issues.... and they did it pretty fast. I see no reason to complain at all.

I don't care if Avid put it out and it was actually a piece of cheese, I am talking about Sony Vegas.

So you can see Sony put the product out and you can see it was buggy, but you do not think we have a reason to complain? This is where our views diverge.

Not to mention the raft of other issues that they have failed to address and the new ones they have added in the meantime. And they have taken a year to not do it.

Have you used anything else apart from Liquid?
You talk about it so much it must have had something going for it :)

Just so you don't sound too silly, Sony didn't write Protitler or DVDA.

I gotta say I get to see a few editors editing for broadcast. I don't see their Avid's or FCP systems having anywhere near the problems I've had with Vegas of late. I'm certain they do have issues, I know MC has a complete fit with broken TC but then again anyone who turns in tapes like that gets to go find another job.

I also gotta say if you think blowing $1,000 is a problem you're not seriously in this game. Heck I blew $10K on a Sony camera, they've had it for near 3 weeks and it still isn't fixed and I'm not complaining. At least they admit its design has problems and they're fixing it.

Bob.

I think this whole thread and a few others just like it, boil down to what John Cline wrote; that PC hardware is now so diverse, that when you combine that with the various flavors of Windows, it is getting extremely difficult to write non-buggy code that works for everyone. This is why people are gravitating towards Macs. Apple neurotically controls all the hardware and the OS. It's the same reason that video gaming is dying on the PC and has moved to consoles. The hardware and OS are both far more standardized.

Now, this isn't an excuse for releasing buggy software. But if people aren't happy with Vegas, use something else.

Ive been with vegas from version 4. I got tried of premier crashing and a friend told me about vegas. Never had a crash all the way up to 8. I put 8 on a new formatted system that nothing else crashes on. Maybe if sony fixed the problems then there wouldnt be complaint threads.

Robert, I didn't see the post that was deleted so I don't have an idea or comment as to why. But, I have seen posts deleted for what appears to be arbitrary reasons. If you posted a letter from Sony urging you to go to FCP, maybe that was something specifically meant for you and was independent of SCS. Maybe it was an issue of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing. Hopefully someone got their hands chopped off for holding that position and publicizing it. In that scenario, I don't blame them for deleting it.

I'm not going to say you are not having problems as I have been on that side with Pinnacle. While I personally I have not experienced many issues with Vegas, I did notice a marked change between 6 & 7. It concerns me that reports of issues appear to be growing.

While these are support forums, there are some things that should be taken offline. Personally, I don't think it is in anyones interest to air all the dirty laundry in the forums . I also believe you should craft letter(s) to the PTB and make your position known. I'm fairly sure your concerns would hold more weight if they were sent directly to someone that can make changes. Any concerns posted here just get lost in the numerous threads or has less credence when lost in a bunch of bickering.

"only a hilbilly wastes time figuring out how to attract flies". :)

I'm agasht at the underlying anti-hillbilly sentiment exposed here. What's next? cavemen?... & heaven forbid you should actually try & understand what the "phrase" really means... :)

Although I'm not one, I proudly stand by my hillbilly friends. Look at what Jed Clampett accomplished with just a flintlock!


& while I'm at it... finally came to my senses

Terje, I find your comment "crash like a Spanair flight" extremely offensive, I live in Spain and here we all feel the grief for the victims and their families. The more I read posts on this forum the more dissolusioned I get. Trying to sort the genuine posts which are useful from one's like yours is frankly getting too much. For me, Vegas works just fine, but like any sophisticated software there will be bugs and workarounds, many versions of Autocad taught me that and other high end high priced softwares had many releases to fix bugs. You guys that continuously whinge are frankly boring.

Tony Negus

"Have you used anything else apart from Liquid?

Actually... yes.
Speed edit.... pretty good but new and therefore way too basic.
I did the PP trial.... what a joke. I think I crashed more in an hour than I ever did with Vegas.
Edius has got a few glitches but I did manage to get some work done in it.... and it's fast too.. The interface however is quite clunky compared to Vegas.

Don't think I'll ever lower myself into trying out FCP though.... I'm terribly allergic to Apple (Sorry Craftech.... it's just the way it is)

"(Sorry Craftech.... it's just the way it is) " I think Blink meant Coursedesign instead of Craftech. I think Craftech prefers to build his own systems vs buying a locked packaged hardware/software solution ;-)

Why so serious!?!


Couldn't resist

I think, in some cases, forum sites are some peoples only claim to fame. It is the one place that they can go and force people to listen to them. The rest of their boring mundane life they are nobodies and no one pays any attention to them until they rant on a forum! Then suddenly, they matter. Their rants bring them attention in a way that their otherwise meaningless life cannot.
Now, Lets put a smile on that face!

"(Sorry Craftech.... it's just the way it is) " I think Blink meant Coursedesign instead of Craftech. I think Craftech prefers to build his own systems vs buying a locked packaged hardware/software solution ;-)

Yes... quite right sorry Course.... and now Craftech.... and a hearty thankyou to Apit for the correction!

Vegas works perfectly fine for me.




Couldn't resist. ;-)

Harold,

I've been z-list famous, so this is not my only claim to fame. I've also had famous acquaintences, and I have seen them rant on forums before. I think the reason peopel may be complainign is because they have a problem with the software.

Or maybe they really want to be bigshots in the Sony forum world. Or maybe not.