Stabilization - choices and what works best?

Jonathan-Burnett wrote on 8/20/2020, 8:49 PM

I've been using the Stabilization OFX native to Vegas Pro 17 and though it does work, it doesn't dampen out the motion as fully as I would like. So, I've begun to evaluate alternative stabilizers and the first one I tried is New Blue FX's version (v6 Build 180730). It analyzes quite a bit slower than the Vegas version but it really did a nicer job of smoothing out some camera motion jiggle. The only thing I didn't like about it is the render speed using as New Blue FX is taking SIGNIFICANTLY longer, like 18 minutes for a very small project versus 2 minutes when I use Vegas 17's native stabilizer.

As I watched during the render, the GPU also didn't seem to get much action when New Blue FX was active. Perhaps their product doesn't even support AMD GPU's? That would certainly explain the 16 additional minutes to render!

So, maybe others know more about this particular one and have suggestions for how to make it work better. But also, you may also have found a much better alternative I should be looking at instead?

So any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Jonathan

Comments

wwaag wrote on 8/20/2020, 9:05 PM

Mercalli is considered by many to be the gold standard. They have both plug-ins as well as standalone versions.

Dexcon wrote on 8/20/2020, 9:19 PM

@Jonathan-Burnett

I suggest that you have a look at ProDad's Mercalli stabilisation products:

https://www.prodad.com/Video-Stabilization-for-Professionals-30419,l-us.html

The product range includes a Standalone (SAL) program as well as a plugin for MAGIX. Free trial versions are available for both.

Personally, I use the SAL version. Even though each shot must be rendered to a new mp4 or mov file (bulk rendering is readily and easily available), the rendered SAL event can be placed on Vegas Pro's timeline without any further rendering needed when the VP project does to its final render. Also, as occurs with some other plugin stabilisers, if you stabilise an event and then later alter the length of the event on the timeline, you may need to stabilise again.

Mocha Pro from BorisFX has a stabiliser module inbuilt, but the entry cost for Mocha Pro is quite steep, but it does include heaps of other advanced modules including a really cool 'remove' module.

https://borisfx.com/products/mocha-pro/?collection=mocha-pro&product=mocha-pro

fifonik wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:15 AM

I'm using Prodad Mercalli V4 Plugin (V5 Pro Plugin is exactly the same and 5 RT is awful imho). Tried Vegas Stabilizers (Legacy and new) but in my opinion Mercalli is better. It is not slowing down render significantly, however it require separate analyze process that could be slow. If you re-open the project and would like to adjust stabilization on fragment, another analyze will be required. The stabilizer can use GPU, but on my system speed is about the same as CPU.

I also used Deshaker. I like its results even more than Mercalli (because it has more options so I can exclude some regions from analysis), but it cannot be used directly from Vegas so I'm using it very rarely.

3POINT wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:24 AM

For me Prodad's Mercalli is the Rolls Royce of stabilizers. The Mercalli plugin for Vegas is unfortunately not doing a perfect job when the footage is interlaced, despite the workaround to set the project to progressive when performing the motion analyse. Therefore I prefer, like Dexcon, the SAL version. The SAL version does also a perfect job with interlaced footage.

Jonathan-Burnett wrote on 8/21/2020, 12:42 AM

I'm using Prodad Mercalli V4 Plugin (V5 Pro Plugin is exactly the same and 5 RT is awful imho). Tried Vegas Stabilizers (Legacy and new) but in my opinion Mercalli is better. It is not slowing down render significantly, however it require separate analyze process that could be slow. If you re-open the project and would like to adjust stabilization on fragment, another analyze will be required. The stabilizer can use GPU, but on my system speed is about the same as CPU.

I also used Deshaker. I like its results even more than Mercalli (because it has more options so I can exclude some regions from analysis), but it cannot be used directly from Vegas so I'm using it very rarely.

I found that I actually have an old v4 copy I've not used but it's a very old download and is: proDAD_Mercalli_V4_4.0.471.1_x64. I'm on their website now trying to figure out how to download the latest update for that version but I can't find a link.

So you're saying that v5 is no different from v4? Also you don't recommend the real-time version?

fifonik wrote on 8/21/2020, 1:15 AM

The latest version of V4 Plugin that I have is 4.0.485.1 (file name "mercalli-40-vegas64bit.4.0.485.1.exe"). Unfortunately, I do not know how to find installer on their web site. I failed when I tried. So I sent them an email and they replied with link to installer :)

v5 has 2 different stabilizers: Pro (that is exactly as V4) and RT (stands for RealTime -- no analyze phase required, but too many issues, see link in my previous message).

Jonathan-Burnett wrote on 8/21/2020, 1:28 AM

The latest version of V4 Plugin that I have is 4.0.485.1 (file name "mercalli-40-vegas64bit.4.0.485.1.exe"). Unfortunately, I do not know how to find installer on their web site. I failed when I tried. So I sent them an email and they replied with link to installer :)

v5 has 2 different stabilizers: Pro (that is exactly as V4) and RT (stands for RealTime -- no analyze phase required, but too many issues, see link in my previous message).

I too have written them so perhaps they will reply with a link to the latest edition for v4. It appears from their website that v5 now includes both the plugin and the standalone edition. But as far as you can tell, the plugin for v5 is really the same as v4 so no update would be beneficial unless I wanted to use SAL. Do I have that right?

Thank you.

fifonik wrote on 8/21/2020, 2:29 AM

If I remember correctly, if you buy Plugin, you would have SAL (standalone) as well. At least I have serial for SAL and I have not bought it separately.

I do not use SAL so cannot say if anything changed in V5 SAL.

If you upgrade from V4 Plugin to V5 Magix, you will also have the RT. But you'd better try the RT first. I was not happy at all.

BTW: I've found their reply and the link to V4 plugin installer is: http://www.prodad.de/support/mercalli/mercalli-40-vegas64bit.exe

Richard Jones wrote on 8/21/2020, 2:50 AM

I had an old Standard 8 cine film in which the frames were slipping badly to give an extremely juddery projected image. I had the film digitalised (professionally) and put on a disc which I then transferred to Vegas 12. Of course all the juddering remained but I applied the Mercalli plug-in and this smoothed the images out almost completely. It is an an extreme example of what Mercalli can achieve and I cannot praise them too highly. It's true it took a time as I had to do the whole film scene by scene (event by event) but the results were so worthwhile.

Richard

Jonathan-Burnett wrote on 8/21/2020, 2:53 AM

If I remember correctly, if you buy Plugin, you would have SAL (standalone) as well. At least I have serial for SAL and I have not bought it separately.

I do not use SAL so cannot say if anything changed in V5 SAL.

If you upgrade from V4 Plugin to V5 Magix, you will also have the RT. But you'd better try the RT first. I was not happy at all.

BTW: I've found their reply and the link to V4 plugin installer is: http://www.prodad.de/support/mercalli/mercalli-40-vegas64bit.exe

What a very confusing website and product (Mercalli)! I've been reading some of your other posts and they are quite helpful but nothing on their website is! :-(

Thank you also for that link to build 485. Unfortunately after installing it, it wants me to unlock it and my v4 registration key is not accepted. I still hope they will respond to my emails later today!

Again, thank you for all your help!

fr0sty wrote on 8/21/2020, 4:13 AM

Has anyone tried the new one in VEGAS Effects 2?

JN- wrote on 8/21/2020, 4:35 AM

@Jonathan-Burnett Just be aware that theres a bug in Mercalli plug in, It occasionally leaves a single frame near the start of the stabilised event with the mercalli logo in it. Whether its vp's or Mercallis fault I don’t know.

Just make sure to always watch, play your rendered out result to confirm no surprises.

Former user wrote on 8/21/2020, 5:16 AM

I had an old Standard 8 cine film in which the frames were slipping badly to give an extremely juddery projected image. I had the film digitalised (professionally) and put on a disc which I then transferred to Vegas 12. Of course all the juddering remained but I applied the Mercalli plug-in and this smoothed the images out almost completely. It is an an extreme example of what Mercalli can achieve and I cannot praise them too highly.

I did not realise that was possible, did you have to dial in some unusual settings that would not be used normally or it just worked with a basic profile?

3POINT wrote on 8/21/2020, 7:52 AM

@Jonathan-Burnett Just be aware that theres a bug in Mercalli plug in, It occasionally leaves a single frame near the start of the stabilised event with the mercalli logo in it. Whether its vp's or Mercallis fault I don’t know.

This single Mercalli logo frame mostly disappears when number of rendering threads is set to one.

Jonathan-Burnett wrote on 8/21/2020, 2:02 PM

The latest version of V4 Plugin that I have is 4.0.485.1 (file name "mercalli-40-vegas64bit.4.0.485.1.exe"). Unfortunately, I do not know how to find installer on their web site. I failed when I tried. So I sent them an email and they replied with link to installer :)

v5 has 2 different stabilizers: Pro (that is exactly as V4) and RT (stands for RealTime -- no analyze phase required, but too many issues, see link in my previous message).

I too have written them so perhaps they will reply with a link to the latest edition for v4. It appears from their website that v5 now includes both the plugin and the standalone edition. But as far as you can tell, the plugin for v5 is really the same as v4 so no update would be beneficial unless I wanted to use SAL. Do I have that right?

Thank you.

I finally got replies back from proDAD and I'm pretty disappointed in them. First they sent me a link to a V4 update (mercalli-40-magix64bit.exe) which installs just fine however, the plugins are not visible to Vegas Pro. So I wrote them back and then they challenged me on where I bought v4 and I sent them my receipt from MAGIX where I bought it as part of the Vegas Pro 14 upgrade a few years ago. Next they informed me that Mercalli when bundled with Vegas Pro, will only run for 2 years. Of course my copy is still running and I told them the documentation didn't stipulate that it only ran for a few years. I asked about upgrading to v5 and they sent me a link that matches what is on their website, however the website says the upgrade is $149 but the link is for $194. I've repeatedly tried to work this with them but I'm going in circles going nowhere.

I guess I'll just stay with the v4 (Build 471) that I have.

What a strange company that seems to be and I don't think language is the problem here...

3POINT wrote on 8/21/2020, 3:06 PM

I can remember that I once updated the M4 plugin that came with Vpro14. Despite it was always said that this M4 plugin was only valid for Vpro14, I used it in all versions of Vegaspro and Vegasmoviestudio after that, just by copying the proDADMercalli4Stabilizr.ofx.bundle from the OFX Video Plug-Ins folder of Vpro14 to the same folder of Vpro15,16,17,18 and VMS15,16,17.

The same procedure works with Prodads cmosfixr.

wwaag wrote on 8/21/2020, 6:07 PM

As @fifonik pointed out, there are advantages of the venerable Deshaker including masking so that only portions of the frame are analyzed plus superior edge handling so that less zoom is required. Although I've purchased most versions of Mercalli from V1, I usually resort to using Deshaker. Like others, I've found ProDad support pretty non-existent. For anyone interested in using Deshaker there is a nice UI that is included in HappyOtterScripts. There is also a turbo option that increases the speed of the Pass 1 processing. Here's a screen grab.

Richard Jones wrote on 8/22/2020, 3:25 AM

lenard-p

I had the cine film digitalized professionally because the company had a proper Telecine machine which corrects the problem of adjusting for the different frame rates (16 or 18fps to 25fps) by interpolating and adjusting frames into the finished project. When I imported this into Vegas Pro 12 I just applied Mercalli on its own (although I did play around with one or two of the plug-in's settings to test and experiment with the effects). The first part of the exercise was done at a not unreasonable cost butthe second part was straightforward if time consuming.

Richard