Stupid Question About ACID?

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/1/2005, 5:54 AM

Okay, as I said in another post, I am not musically inclinded. I can play the radio, but that's about it. The post about Johnny Roy's new book and the post about loops at Hark Productions has really peaked my interest. Problem is, I am totally clueless when it comes to ACID and loops and "making music."

I looked at the Sony media software catalog that came yesterday and based on the ACID screen capture I saw, and here comes the stupid question, couldn't the loops simply be added to audio event tracks in Vegas? Must one have ACID to use loops for creating scores for use in Vegas?

Any direction would be greatly appreciated!


Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/1/2005, 6:51 AM
Jay,
Vegas has extremely limited ACID capabilities, and unless you have a pretty good musical background, it's not worth a lot of the effort. Vegas can't change tempo, can't change pitch (globally) can't remix automatically, nor lock slices to time. ACID does that at the most basic/free level.
But Vegas 5 WILL read the tempo information in an ACID loop. In fact, that's about the only thing it does. For building 3-4 track songs, Vegas is great if you don't mind manually matching pitches.

On the other hand, ACID Pro or ACID Express, or ACID Studio make it really easy to do all of this, it changes pitch globally, you can remix in Pro, etc, etc.

Now...you need ACIDized loops in either Vegas or ACID. The loops contain metadata that tells the application the pitch and tempo of the audio recording. ACID loops are a great (and royalty free) means of having guys like Mick Fleetwood, Bunn E Carlos, Ray Lynch, Rudy Sarzo, David Torn, etc, etc. all playing on your video creation. For next to nothing.
You need no musical chops to use ACID, it's fairly fast to learn, and it's potentially addictive.

It's safe to say that at least 70% of what you hear on the radio, in film, or on television today has been touched by ACIDized loops at some point. Some artists like Ricky Martin make entire careers out of ACID loops composing. In fact, at NAB, we've got David Was of Was/Not Was (Scorist for the Oscars, co author of many hit songs) tallking about how he uses ACID in his daily workflow, and doing a case study session on ACID. If you're attending NAB, you won't want to miss him. He'll likely be at the Vegas Users Group party as well.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/1/2005, 6:54 AM

Thanks, Douglas, for the explanation! You also mentioned, "... and unless you have a pretty good musical background, it's not worth a lot of the effort." So I should not attempt fooling with ACID and leave it up to those with a musical background?

Spot|DSE wrote on 3/1/2005, 7:01 AM
No, what I mean is that in Vegas you should have a background in music. Only because Vegas can't sniff the pitch that the audio is at and match them all up.
In ACID, you can take a file at at a tempo of say....110 beats per minute in the key of A, and put it over top of a file that's say.....125 beats per minute in the key of C. ACID will lock up the tempos and match the pitches for you. Vegas will lock up the tempos, but the pitch will be different. You need to manually adjust the pitch in Vegas by using the - or = keys. If you have 10 tracks of loops, you'll have 10 pitches to match. ACID does it all for you though, which Vegas can't.
mark2929 wrote on 3/1/2005, 7:05 AM
>>>Vegas can't change tempo, can't change pitch (globally) can't remix automatically, nor lock slices to time<<<<<
But Acid CAN. The Loops are Prerecorded now everyone who can Hear. Can Compose ! With this..
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/1/2005, 7:19 AM

Oh, I see. Thank you for the clarification!

JJKizak wrote on 3/1/2005, 7:35 AM
You can import the loop to Vegas and then lets say it's a bass note, then open it in Forge, make a bunch of new bass notes with different pitches and then use the takes (properly labelled) with the timeline fairly well expanded and add them whereever you like. It is very time consuming but it works. The first Dye Four DVD I sent you was like this, totally fake.

JJK
mark2929 wrote on 3/1/2005, 7:46 AM
Jay no Sarcasm intended.. JUST Trying to Focus your attention to What I copied from Spots post :) - Its very relevant.. It does'nt Matter what your Musical skill level is... Anyone can Compose... Of course you need practise but your only limited by your Knowledge of the Program and Imagination... Yeah Baby Im on Acid...
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/1/2005, 9:21 AM

Mark, I didn't see any sarcasm in your post, nor was anything you said taken that way. Thanks for your encouragement!

mark2929 wrote on 3/1/2005, 9:41 AM
Your very Welcome..I Really enjoy this program.. Problem "sometimes" is I use to many loops I should try and remember the KISS Rule..
Lili wrote on 3/1/2005, 10:18 AM
I had ACID for 4 months (it came with V5) before I even knew what it was for!!
I have absolutely NO musical background or much knowlege. BUT, once I started playing with ACID and learning a bit more every time I used it, I came to love it. It IS just as easy to learn as they say in the book.

In fact I've composed a few pieces to accompany some 2 minutes videos and a couple of them a very catchy and I can't believe I created them with loops.
I even used a couple of loops that I put straight on the timeline for a quirky 20 -second video, without mixing them at all, and they suited the piece perfectly.
So, I would encourage you to give it a try - and if you have questions, post them to the ACID forum - the response and advice I've gotten there is excellent.
lili
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/1/2005, 11:00 AM

Thanks, Lili, that's good to hear about other's experience with such apps!

busterkeaton wrote on 3/2/2005, 1:32 AM
What collection does Bunn E Carlos play on? That guys awesome.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/2/2005, 7:00 AM
He's on two of the QUP Arts collections. I was the editor on a lot of it. He is indeed, smokin!
Stonefield wrote on 3/2/2005, 7:39 PM
Jay,

Just go give you some real world examples of how ACID has saved me so much time...here is a link to a couple model promos I've done. All the music was done quick, and dirty by me on Acid. It's a great app.

http://www.stonefieldmedia.com/films/sfm_CTM.html
Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/2/2005, 7:55 PM
Stan, that sounded really nice (and the video looked good, too)! I'm impressed, honestly. Thanks for sharing that with me (us). What kind of background in music do you have?

Guess I just to work up the nerve to make the investment in what appears to me to be very intimidating program.

busterkeaton wrote on 3/2/2005, 10:06 PM
Jay,

Check out the demo. It's so NOT an intimidating progarm.

The first time I played with ACID, I had what sounded like a song within two minutes. I had to tweak and play with it some more to get where it sounded like a good song, but I had something workable very, very quickly. If you are doing a piece where music is not the point of piece and you have it just in background you can do that very easy with just a few loops. If you go to acidplanet.com, click on all contests, you will see five contests. You can download the loops for those songs and remix them. You'll see you can probably get some decent results pretty fast. First thing you do is just create a track for every loop. Draw or paint the loops and then just listen to each one as a solo track. Delete or mute the ones you don't like. When you find a track you like look for a complimentary track. For example, if I find a bassline I like, I start to look for a drum track. Then when I have those working I look for flourishes or melody. I'm not an accomplished user by any means, practically my entire workflow is experimenting.

Acid lends itself to sometimes of music better than others. Dance/high energy music seems the easiest for me.
busterkeaton wrote on 3/2/2005, 10:17 PM
Stonefield,

Is that the Canadian version of the show on in America with Tyra Banks?

My girlfriend is addicted to that show.
Stonefield wrote on 3/2/2005, 11:15 PM
I believe the people that organized the contest, ( and that's what it is , a contest ) are hoping to turn this into a national TV show. They said they needed some video work done behind the scenes to present to some possible investors. I said I'd be happy to do the first round for them.

I may pass on the next round because of other projects but I enjoyed doing these little promos all the same.
PDB wrote on 3/3/2005, 2:08 AM
Jay,

I am another Acid convert, and like you, with no musical backround whatsoever. I actually dived into Acid due to real world needs, as I was asked to prepare a corporate video for a pharmaceutical lab and needed royalty free music...I tried Acid Express and bought Acid music the very same day....

OK, no for the less good news...In my personal experience, and this is probably due to my particular musical tastes, it is not that easy to find loops to match what I would listen to in my spare time (I'm not into the present day house, lounge and whathaveyou...more like the "melodic" 80's/90's...) I guess what I'm saying is that the hardest part of creating stuff in Acid for me is actually finding a combination of loops which really triggers something for me....

And having said all that, I very strongly recommend the Piano and Chord collections from Hark Productions, and I personally was fairly productive with the Spanish Guitar collection (but there again I live in Spain....). But as I say, those are my particular tastes... I have a few pieces up in Acid Planet created out of these and other collections...

But do give it a go!
MH_Stevens wrote on 3/3/2005, 7:59 PM
"Driving on ACID is easy."

Louden Wainwright III

PS
My first ACID song with three free loops from ACIDplanet was really pleasing to me. I have a musical background but no professional skills. Stick with the basics and the article in this months DV mag.
Fleshpainter wrote on 3/4/2005, 2:27 AM
Started with an Acid loop, 6 seconds long. Dropped it into Sound Forge 7, changed the pitch, made it longer (10 seconds) rendered as a .wav file, with a new name. When I put it in Acid 4, it only plays 6 seconds. When I play the exact same .wav clip in Vegas, or Windows Media Player, I get 10 seconds. What do I need to do here to get Acid to recognize all 10 seconds?
RexA wrote on 3/4/2005, 11:25 AM
>>>
OK, no for the less good news...In my personal experience, and this is probably due to my particular musical tastes, it is not that easy to find loops to match what I would listen to in my spare time (I'm not into the present day house, lounge and whathaveyou...more like the "melodic" 80's/90's...) I guess what I'm saying is that the hardest part of creating stuff in Acid for me is actually finding a combination of loops which really triggers something for me....
<<<

I have since spent a lot more on loop collections than on Acid Pro itself. There is lots of good free stuff out there, but for a good variety you will no doubt need to shop for some collections.

If, like me, you don't use Acid every day or two, one of the hardest parts (most time consuming) is finding the right loop(s) for something in the big collection you have accumulated. It is still easier with Acid most times than finding a good, already done, piece to use.
MyST wrote on 3/4/2005, 11:29 AM
"one of the hardest parts (most time consuming) is finding the right loop(s) for something in the big collection you have accumulated."

Acid Pro 5 with Media Manager.
Love it! Love it! Love it!!

Mario
MH_Stevens wrote on 3/4/2005, 9:30 PM
Actually if you do enough processing on the loops you can make them sound like anything you want. Also with a midi keyboard, a mic and a sausepan and wooden spoon you can make your own loops. You can also "rip" small phases or riffs (too small to be copyrighted) from recordings to make into loops. Invert them. play them backwards, change the pitch, add effects to get the loops you want. Sing or hum a loop. Stock loops are sometimes so numerous you get confused and buried by them.

Take a deep breath, close your eyes, feel the emotion you want and hear in your head the little elements needed to give you your sound - then put them into the computer. You don't have to play good, or beat the saucepan good or sing good because the elctronic processing you do will do will cover all that.