This is the type of External Controller Vegas desperately needs!

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 9:38 AM

As I was setting up my hardware MCU controller and a separate keypad for short-cuts to use in Vegas for video editing projects, I was thinking to myself..."Wouldn't it be cool if someone developed an app where I could use a tablet as a wireless remote to control Vegas functions, be able to resize, arrange and label those buttons on the screen of the tablet as I wish, instead of trying to memorize a bunch of CNTRL+SHIFT+ALT+etc keyboard short-cuts, re-assign MCU buttons and trying to create sticker labels to put on my keyboard buttons as well as my MCU controller? Wouldn't it be great if I could create custom buttons for script execution and label them how I wanted on this remote?"

This is a product Vegas could desperately benefit from in my opinion, so if some of you innovated developers need something new to work on which I'm certain would be a hit for many Vegas users. BTW, @wwaag you with all the Happy Otter functionality you've been working on and providing to the community were the first one that came to mind. :D

Here's what it looks like folks.

The developer of Reaper WRB wrote this remote control program for Reaper which is now light years ahead of Vegas on the audio side. The developer of Reaper (Justin Frankel) used to be a Vegas user until Sony started to drop the ball on audio functionality in favor to migrate into the NLE world many of you are now living in. At that point Justin decided to start writing his own DAW....which by the way is now starting to add Video editing features into Reaper where it may be worth while keeping your eye on once it starts to evolve further as an NLE.

Comments

Marco. wrote on 8/13/2019, 9:44 AM

If you have an iPad available – ever tried using "Vegas Pro Connect" which is a Vegas Pro core feature?

Or the nice Android remote tool which is available from FocusOnVegas?

fr0sty wrote on 8/13/2019, 9:46 AM

You could just as easily use a touchOSC type program on your mobile device, then a midi to keyboard stroke converter app on the PC side, and then map any keyboard shortcuts you want to a corresponding midi control on the mobile device. It should only take a few minutes to set up.

Reaper is a decent audio app... not perfect, but definitely good for $60 annoyware. That said, I have no intentions of waiting around for it to add years worth of video upgrades needed to come anywhere close to what Vegas currently is. Vegas stopped being a DAW for good reason, Sonic Foundry also had ACID, and didn't need 2 DAW programs. So, they made the best NLE on the market instead.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 10:28 AM

If you have an iPad available – ever tried using "Vegas Pro Connect" which is a Vegas Pro core feature?

Or the nice Android remote tool which is available from FocusOnVegas?

Yeah, I looked at those previously. Correct me if I'm wrong. They look like they're limited to a single screen layout and limited to the number of buttons that can be assigned so I would need to pick and choose which buttons I want instead of being able to group similar function buttons on multiple select-able pages and not be able to resize and arrange the button layout to my preferences. That's what I have now with my combination of a wireless numeric keypad and a MCU. I have a limited amount of assignable buttons split up between multiple external controllers. The difference seems to be that the Reaper remote app lets the user configure things to their preferences where those apps you mention you're always in a 6 of one, or a 1/2 dozen of the other choice selection which is the reason I currently have 2 external controllers and have to use multiple tools to configure each of them to my preferences.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 10:29 AM

You could just as easily use a touchOSC type program on your mobile device, then a midi to keyboard stroke converter app on the PC side, and then map any keyboard shortcuts you want to a corresponding midi control on the

mobile device. It should only take a few minutes to set up.

Yeah...that all sounds pretty simple and I'm sure works flawlessly. I don't know what I was thinking......Iet me go into the Vegas manual and find those Midi control to KB mappings to get that all set up. See you in about 2 months and I'll provide you an update of how things are progressing.

Marco. wrote on 8/13/2019, 10:59 AM

I meant especially the second one more as a hint that there may be someone being able to "developed an app …"

@FocusOnVegas is amongst us.

zdogg wrote on 8/13/2019, 12:13 PM

Any product that employs the Mackie Control (Logic Control) protocol - and there are many - is a good choice. I have the Mackie, and it will work with Audio programs (like Magix' Samplitude) just fine. There are, of course, other controllers that go beyond the Mackie, but it is still very useful.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 1:05 PM

Any product that employs the Mackie Control (Logic Control) protocol - and there are many - is a good choice. I have the Mackie, and it will work with Audio programs (like Magix' Samplitude) just fine. There are, of course, other controllers that go beyond the Mackie, but it is still very useful.

I have a Mackie H/W Controller....see "MCU" (Mackie Control Unit) in my original post. It works well. The pitfall with any hardware controller is with the customization and button configuration limitations as well as button labeling. It's the same ole hardware vs software conundrum. You can control audio and video track controls in Vegas with an MCU which is great. However, you need to assign an audio/video toggle button to be able to provide yourself that flexibility. So how do you now label that toggle button on the Mackie Controller you just created? The typical answer is that you either have to have a customized template faceplate specifically made for Vegas for that particular Mackie controller where someone else has already decided for you what they felt are the most important buttons or you hand write the label on a blank face plate template for that particular button. Then what happens when you run out of assignable buttons on the Mackie Controller since Vegas supports more Mackie control "commands" than the majority of Mackie Controls provide physical buttons? The answer is that you have to pick and choose and decide which particular function is most important to you. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another decision solution. All while the button layout on the MCU is never quite where you would prefer them to be and aren't grouped where you would prefer them to be. Another limitation with an MCU is that they don't support keyboard short-cuts, so all those often used editing keyboard short-cuts are not present...such as the "S" (Split) key is not supported on an MCU which now requires you to add a 2nd external controller which supports keyboard short-cuts which is exactly what I have done and now I need to find a way to label those buttons as well.

Maybe I'm not as sharp as everyone else but I have a hard-time remembering that I need to press CTRL+SHIFT+F to enable the Post-edit ripple all tracks function for the few times I use that function but it sure would be nice to just create a button and label it "Post Edit Ripple On/OFF" and have it sitting right next to the global Ripple On/OFF and Snapping On/Off buttons and Ignore Grouping On/Off buttons. Try to do those things on a Mackie Control, Keyboard, Contour Shuttle Pro, or even a $2000 JL Cooper hardware multimedia controller. I'm sure it can be done in one manner or another but it's always a compromise solution. Having multiple selectable tabs where I can group commonly used buttons together or even duplicate buttons under different tabs, re-size and color those buttons and place them in any order or arrangement of my preference is definitely something I would like to do but am unable to do with any controller currently available for Vegas but that's exactly what this type of controller shown in the video provides.

FocusOnVegas app is on the right path but seems to be lacking in the customization and multi-tab organization configuration options. I'm sure it works great for its original intention of reducing the number of buttons scattered around on a keyboard and allowing you to pick and choose the ones you use most often but you'll still have to eventually reach for the keyboard and try to remember those CTRL+SHIFT+ECT+ECT for the buttons you decided you don't use as often.

zdogg wrote on 8/13/2019, 2:59 PM

I'd be much happier with some basic "nuts and bolts" updates to the archane GUI, and then I'd start worrying about the HW controller limitations. For me, HW controller is not only convenient, but necessary to advance the timeline with Pan/Crop window open and a few other particularized tasks. What I need it to do, it does well, I'm not looking for exotic and exhaustive implementations, and, btw, some of the simple video control/jog wheels with added button command units, of the $100 variety, are pretty spiffy as well, for MOST users needs that go beyonde the mouse and keyboard. But, of course, with most things, YMMV.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 4:07 PM

I understand everyone has their own personal priorities of what is needed. This is something which could be implemented by an entrepreneur 3rd party developer looking to potentially capitalize on some of the short-comings within Vegas. Basic nut and bolt updates to the GUI are outside of 3rd party developer hands until Vegas supports an open GUI and/or skins....something Reaper has implemented from the start.

Marco. wrote on 8/13/2019, 4:14 PM

I didn't test this tool, but I think the full version of Unified Remote maybe could do this.

fr0sty wrote on 8/13/2019, 4:42 PM

"Yeah...that all sounds pretty simple and I'm sure works flawlessly. I don't know what I was thinking......Iet me go into the Vegas manual and find those Midi control to KB mappings to get that all set up. See you in about 2 months and I'll provide you an update of how things are progressing."

I got reaper working this way overnight... It isn't that difficult. You don't have to midi map anything in Vegas, there are separate apps that will take a midi command and convert it to any keystroke or combination of keystrokes you tell it to. So, it takes midi in from touchosc, converts it to a keystroke, and that keystroke is what triggers Vegas. No internal tooling with Vegas' midi required.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 4:54 PM

"Yeah...that all sounds pretty simple and I'm sure works flawlessly. I don't know what I was thinking......Iet me go into the Vegas manual and find those Midi control to KB mappings to get that all set up. See you in about 2 months and I'll provide you an update of how things are progressing."

I got reaper working this way overnight... It isn't that difficult. You don't have to midi map anything in Vegas, there are separate apps that will take a midi command and convert it to any keystroke or combination of keystrokes you tell it to. So, it takes midi in from touchosc, converts it to a keystroke, and that keystroke is what triggers Vegas. No internal tooling with Vegas' midi required.


I misunderstood what you were describing. I was thinking it was going from a keyboard command to a midi command. Why is midi even needed other than if you wanted to send a midi hardware controller message to Vegas? Most everything in Vegas can be controlled via keyboard short-cut. Why can't the keyboard key presses be sent directly to Vegas without going through another app on the PC you described? Is it because the touchOSC app you suggested only sends midi commands and not keyboard key stroke commands?

zdogg wrote on 8/13/2019, 5:42 PM

Just curious, which functionality presently tied to "key command" isn't best handled by a keyboard? or enhanced Keyboard, maybe with the keys imprinted with commands? Other than the obvious jog wheel stuff (Mackie handles that, as do some simple video editor jog wheel/button setups)

If you are talking about a Davinci Resolve type controller, i.e., physical wheels, I certainly can see that, especially with new color corrector. But otherwise, which functionalities demand a screen type interface to make editing more smooth/efficient?

 

fr0sty wrote on 8/13/2019, 5:42 PM

yes, you need a midi to keyboard command app to do the conversion from touchOSC, but it does enable you to make buttons and such where you want, arrange them how you like, and have them trigger whatever you want in Vegas. I used it to map a midi foot controller to Reaper's playback and record controls, as well as a few other controls mapped to a tablet.

The only thing this wouldn't work for would be fader based controls, but I imagine you could map touchOSC's midi output directly to the faders in Vegas, if you really wanted to have that control as well.

Rednroll wrote on 8/13/2019, 7:40 PM

Just curious, which functionality presently tied to "key command" isn't best handled by a keyboard? or enhanced Keyboard, maybe with the keys imprinted with commands? Other than the obvious jog wheel stuff (Mackie handles that, as do some simple video editor jog wheel/button setups)

If you are talking about a Davinci Resolve type controller, i.e., physical wheels, I certainly can see that, especially with new color corrector. But otherwise, which functionalities demand a screen type interface to make editing more smooth/efficient?

 

I outlined this in my previous post and original post. The entire premise is having the ability of customizing the keys in regards to labels, size, color and layout grouping. The things which are just not possible with hardware based controllers.

Think of this Logitech Keyboard:

With the additional flexiblity to put your own names on the buttons, change the sizes, colors, and groupings of the buttons so things are laid out more naturally and not bound by a QWERTY keyboard layout as well as being able to totally eliminate all the needed CNTL, SHIFT, and ALT modifier key combo key presses.

So you're saying you previously criticized the need/use for this without even bothering to understand it? LOL!

zdogg wrote on 8/13/2019, 10:09 PM

Just curious, which functionality presently tied to "key command" isn't best handled by a keyboard? or enhanced Keyboard, maybe with the keys imprinted with commands? Other than the obvious jog wheel stuff (Mackie handles that, as do some simple video editor jog wheel/button setups)

If you are talking about a Davinci Resolve type controller, i.e., physical wheels, I certainly can see that, especially with new color corrector. But otherwise, which functionalities demand a screen type interface to make editing more smooth/efficient?

 

I outlined this in my previous post and original post. The entire premise is having the ability of customizing the keys in regards to labels, size, color and layout grouping. The things which are just not possible with hardware based controllers.

Think of this Logitech Keyboard:

With the additional flexiblity to put your own names on the buttons, change the sizes, colors, and groupings of the buttons so things are laid out more naturally and not bound by a QWERTY keyboard layout as well as being able to totally eliminate all the needed CNTL, SHIFT, and ALT modifier key combo key presses.

So you're saying you previously criticized the need/use for this without even bothering to understand it? LOL!

@Rednroll __
Sir: you are acusing me of presenting a case for exactly the OPPOSITE of what I am suggesting. I am saying the KEYBOARD, so utilized, can do a PLETHORA of tasks and quite elegantly, so my question was "WHY THE NEED FOR SOME SORT OF SCREEN BASED/WIRELESS DEVICE?" That is the case I was ASKING FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE, if that case could be made. I'm not saying it couldn't be so, but I don't see that. But someone prove me wrong. AND DON'T ACCUSE people OF NOT READING YOUR IDEAS, when you certainly did not take ten seconds to actually figure out what I WAS SAYING> Thanks!!!

fr0sty wrote on 8/13/2019, 11:46 PM

Sirs: You two are getting worked up over software. Let's keep this chill and respectful. No need for snide remarks, accusations, rants in all caps, etc...

To address the topic, it can be helpful with a program like touch osc, which lets you make your own buttons, layouts, and make them whatever size, etc. you want, to have a handful of graphical commands that say "split", "enable auto ripple" etc. instead of having to remember which keyboard shortcut corresponds to it, and to be able to group commands together in whatever layout you want, in whatever colors you want, etc... definitely a valid use for what the Rednroll is suggesting. If I had a tablet with a decent sized screen on it, I would probably utilize it for something like that. It would be cool if Vegas had a macro recorder we could record actions and script sequences in, so we could program those to buttons on the screen as well. It would make a tablet (or even a phone, on a limited scale) a nice little companion device to have around for organizing commands and scripts.

Now that we've established how it can be useful, let's get back to the best way to go about implementing it in Vegas. I personally would start with TouchOSC and software like midi translator or midistroke.

ryclark wrote on 8/14/2019, 5:55 AM

There are programmable USB keyboards complete with programmable key tops like Infinitton or Elgato Stream Deck. However they are rather expensive but could be made to do exactly what you want with Vegas keyboard shortcuts.

https://www.infinitton.com/

Rednroll wrote on 8/15/2019, 1:50 PM

There are programmable USB keyboards complete with programmable key tops like Infinitton or Elgato Stream Deck. However they are rather expensive but could be made to do exactly what you want with Vegas keyboard shortcuts.

https://www.infinitton.com/

Incorrect.

Rednroll wrote on 8/15/2019, 1:58 PM

Just curious, which functionality presently tied to "key command" isn't best handled by a keyboard? or enhanced Keyboard, maybe with the keys imprinted with commands? Other than the obvious jog wheel stuff (Mackie handles that, as do some simple video editor jog wheel/button setups)

If you are talking about a Davinci Resolve type controller, i.e., physical wheels, I certainly can see that, especially with new color corrector. But otherwise, which functionalities demand a screen type interface to make editing more smooth/efficient?

 

I outlined this in my previous post and original post. The entire premise is having the ability of customizing the keys in regards to labels, size, color and layout grouping. The things which are just not possible with hardware based controllers.

Think of this Logitech Keyboard:

With the additional flexiblity to put your own names on the buttons, change the sizes, colors, and groupings of the buttons so things are laid out more naturally and not bound by a QWERTY keyboard layout as well as being able to totally eliminate all the needed CNTL, SHIFT, and ALT modifier key combo key presses.

So you're saying you previously criticized the need/use for this without even bothering to understand it? LOL!

@Rednroll __
Sir: you are acusing me of presenting a case for exactly the OPPOSITE of what I am suggesting. I am saying the KEYBOARD, so utilized, can do a PLETHORA of tasks and quite elegantly, so my question was "WHY THE NEED FOR SOME SORT OF SCREEN BASED/WIRELESS DEVICE?" That is the case I was ASKING FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE, if that case could be made. I'm not saying it couldn't be so, but I don't see that. But someone prove me wrong. AND DON'T ACCUSE people OF NOT READING YOUR IDEAS, when you certainly did not take ten seconds to actually figure out what I WAS SAYING> Thanks!!!

Sirs: You two are getting worked up over software. Let's keep this chill and respectful. No need for snide remarks, accusations, rants in all caps, etc...

To address the topic, it can be helpful with a program like touch osc, which lets you make your own buttons, layouts, and make them whatever size, etc. you want, to have a handful of graphical commands that say "split", "enable auto ripple" etc. instead of having to remember which keyboard shortcut corresponds to it, and to be able to group commands together in whatever layout you want, in whatever colors you want, etc... definitely a valid use for what the Rednroll is suggesting. If I had a tablet with a decent sized screen on it, I would probably utilize it for something like that. It would be cool if Vegas had a macro recorder we could record actions and script sequences in, so we could program those to buttons on the screen as well. It would make a tablet (or even a phone, on a limited scale) a nice little companion device to have around for organizing commands and scripts.

Now that we've established how it can be useful, let's get back to the best way to go about implementing it in Vegas. I personally would start with TouchOSC and software like midi translator or midistroke.

I'm glad you get the concept. Total control of Size, layout, grouping, labeling, and arrangement seem to allude some but I'm not going to keep describing the same things over and over again with various examples and linked videos in hope the light bulb eventually turns on.

A macro recorder would be nice as you mention.

No reason a virtual mouse pad couldn't be created as well. It truly could be designed so it would be the only device needed....and no wires to boot.

Rednroll wrote on 8/15/2019, 2:36 PM

I started by looking at different virtual keyboards instead of TouchOSC options. The thing I couldn't find in the virtual keyboard options was being able to customize the key labels, button layouts, multi key assignments, and a lack of numeric key pad support. The midi translater sounds like a headache and a path to later discover unsupported short comings but I could be wrong. Plus there's always the potential of it being the non active window when it's running as a background app and Vegas is the active window. Plus what happens if you decide to use an actual midi device? I just think there's too many potential pitfalls even in investing the time to explore it further. A fully customizable virtual keyboard with customizable and assignable buttons seems like the best way to go where no translation app would be needed.

fr0sty wrote on 8/15/2019, 3:33 PM

using another midi device should work the same, vegas should still accept the keystrokes from one midi device (which the keystroke translator is only listening to that one device, touchosc), and vegas talks to the other. I know with Reaper we've had multiple midi devices set up (keyboards, etc) and used the keyboard mapping software to map other things as well to a foot controller. I see no reason Vegas couldn't do the same.

As for always on top, some of those apps have that capability.

It's not perfect, but it's useful.

Rednroll wrote on 8/15/2019, 6:15 PM

using another midi device should work the same, vegas should still accept the keystrokes from one midi device (which the keystroke translator is only listening to that one device, touchosc), and vegas talks to the other. I know with Reaper we've had multiple midi devices set up (keyboards, etc) and used the keyboard mapping software to map other things as well to a foot controller. I see no reason Vegas couldn't do the same.

As for always on top, some of those apps have that capability.

It's not perfect, but it's useful.

I guess I'm just unfamiliar with the type of Midi messages that the TouchOSC sends. My thought is let's say for example's sake it sends one of the 128 possible midi notes, say C-4 and then I use the translater to map a C-4 received note to the S/Split keystroke. Then I press C-4 on a midi keyboard, then that would also now be mapped to the S key since that received midi note message would also go through the translator.

I'm also unsure how the translator works where it seems like I would need to 1st assign a midi note or message to a button within the TouchOSC and then go into the Translator App, remember which midi message I assigned to a particular button on the TouchOSC and then assign the translator to send a particular keystroke when it receives that particular assigned midi message. Then on top of that I'm unsure if the translator has the ability to send a combo keystroke for a single received midi message such as if I pressed CNTRL+ALT+Numlock (4) on a keyboard. Then how does the PC actually receive the midi messages from the tablet? Through a local network Wifi connection, bluetooth, or other?

Rednroll wrote on 8/15/2019, 10:17 PM

I'm ecstatic! I think I found what I was looking for after browsing through the Google Playstore.

There's an App called "Infinimote".

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.infinimote&hl=en_US

You install that app on your Android phone/tablet, then you also need to install a small app on your PC found here:

https://infinimote.wixsite.com/home

You connect both your PC and Tablet to your home Wifi. The app on the PC essentially let's you set a password for the Phone Tablet to be able to remotely connect to your PC.

Here's the capabilities I discovered so far.

- Any key or combo of keys can be assigned to a custom button

- Numeric keypad, Function, Modifier/Edit keys, mouse pad, scroll wheel, Toggle, combination keys and joystick are all supported.

- Buttons can be created and labeled however you like, size, color, shape.

- Buttons can be labeled with your custom text.

- No tabs but it has what are called "Panels" which serves a similar purpose where each panel you can label and assign buttons on it and you can just toggle between the different panels you create.

I just installed it on my smartphone to try it out and so far it works great.

Here's the Panel selection.

Pressing one of those takes you to a screen with your custom button layouts, it comes with a few already pre-built for you.

Here's the pre-built Mouse:

Here's the "Vegas Pro" panel I put together to try it out and give some insight of what you can do with it. Copy and Paste buttons are Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V and work perfect.