Thoughts on the upcoming VV5

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/6/2004, 5:55 PM

As many of us sit here, impatiently waiting the next great release from the Sofo team, (still cant get used to giving Sony claim to the programming), many have wondered about just what will be included. While I am looking forward to any and all new features, the one thing that has concerned me since Sony took over was the cost.

Several months ago, someone posted a link to an article that said Sony was seriously considering raising the price of VV so that it is more inline with competitiors such as Adobe, Avid, etc... and that it would help gain acceptance by other video professionals.

The sad thing I have noticed in thsi down economy (save my political rant for some other time), is that no company has stepped up and taken care of its customers. It seems these days, every developer is concerned with bringing in more money than they are about being loyal to the customer. Companies like MS are considering putting out another OS (XP reloaded) that is supposed to contain fixes for their poor coding and charging users for it. Somehow, it doesnt sit well with me when a company expects you to pay more for a fix for their errors or incompetence.

I think is a great opportunity for Sony to step up to the plate and to show what arguably is the most loyal userbase to NLEs. Sony has a chance to offer the upgrade for a reasonable price. Sadly, MS continues to screw its customers over. Each upgrade starting with Windows 95 cost users $89-$99. But a user who came in on Windows 95 was allowed to upgrade to XP for the same price as someone who came all the way from Windows 3.1 and continually paid the average $90 price tag.

Will Sony force users to upgrade to XP ala Adobe with Premiere Pro and abandon Windows 2000? It remains to be seen. Will DVD Architect finally be worth the price charged? With Vegas, I feel there is no other in its class. With DVD-A, well, thats another story. For the same price, DVD Encore offers a slew of other features that simply were overlooked/not implemented in DVDA1.0

Personally, I think more companies are concerned with new sales (full price) than they are with upgrades (lower prices.) I am reminded of those promotional deals that DirecTV offers. I was a subscriber for 3 years and only had one box. But they had a deal running with 4 hook ups and X amount of dollars for 6 months but it was ONLY open to NEW SUBSCRIBERS. So because I was a good customer for three years and they made money off of me, i got screwed on a great deal while someone else who hasnt paid crap got an awesome deal from the start.

Perhaps I may be getting off the point here. The fact is I believe it is time for all companies to stand up and do the right thing with regards to making things better for the customers who have supported them from the start. Why shouldnt they? They derrived their success from us so its only normal for them to give back to us.

Now before I get flamed about this is how business works etc..., I understand. However, let me ask you all this. If you had a client that kept coming back to you for work, arent you more likely to cut them a deal on work then you would for a new client who hasnt paid anything?

Hopefully Sony's pricing will reflect its commitment and loyalty to the customers it has boguht/inherited from SoFo.

Your thoughts?

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Comments

GaryKleiner wrote on 3/8/2004, 1:02 PM

>if i want to roll credits over an image - i'd like to be able to add an outline to my text to make it easier to read. <

You already can do this. Turn on glow in track motion and adjust the feather control. Shadow is also available..

Gary

GaryKleiner wrote on 3/8/2004, 1:07 PM

Sorry, here is the corrected version:

Clyde goes to Miss Margaret (a very skilled prositute that keeps on improving her skills) on the first Monday of each monthn (unless it's raining and he goes on Tuesday instead), and boy does he feel good all over when they are done.

Clyde pays Miss Margaret $100 for each visit, except gets a visit for half price after 11 months.

Frankie goes to Miss Margaret for the first time just as Clyde is leaving after his 12th visit. An hour later Frankie is on his way out, and boy, does he feel good all over.

An hour later both Clyde and Frankie are still feeling pretty good, yet at this point Clyde has paid $1150 but Frankie has paid only $100.

How can this be fair for Clyde?

Chienworks wrote on 3/8/2004, 1:15 PM

The repeat customer paid $1000 and then got a discount. The new customer paid the full price of $100. So, this month they both got exactly the same service, but the repeat customer has paid 10 times more!

Or did he.

Well, yes, he did pay 10 times more than the new customer. But, he's also had 11 times as much service. Even if he had paid $99 for that last visit, he still would have been ahead of the new customer when you take into account total number of visits.

You see ... it's that number of visits thing that you're just not getting.

As always in these topics, Matthew 20:1-15 applies nicely :)

busterkeaton wrote on 3/8/2004, 1:51 PM

Oddly enough Gary, that same question was also asked on my SAT's.

Erk wrote on 3/8/2004, 2:09 PM

Irreverent comment:

Gary: the answer is... it's fair to Clyde because he's Miss Margaret's Pimp, and gets kickbacks (even from his own payments).

Reverent comment:

Chienworks: >Matthew 20:1-15 applies nicely :)<

Well said!

Greg

MyST wrote on 3/8/2004, 5:28 PM

This is getting so confusing!
So if I start seeing a prostitute on a regular basis (ideally mondays when it's not raining), I'll get Vegas 5 for less money overall than the guy buying it for the first time?!?

Well...as long as it's for a good cause (lower software pricing ??)

M

rmack350 wrote on 3/8/2004, 6:00 PM

No! No Waiting! V5 must spring from our furiously furrowed foreheads now!
Now!, Now! Now!

(...time passes)

Your's,

Rob Mack

FuTz wrote on 3/9/2004, 8:25 AM

I just skipped the last 67 posts here (or something around that) just to say that I'm already satisfied with V4, I probably haven't used half of the features and I still can edit something decent out of my footage.

When V5 is launched, I'll look at the price and the features and decide if I go with the upgrade or not.

***But it's not out yet***, so why bother about all these considerations now !?!

MyST wrote on 3/9/2004, 5:55 PM

Theoretical Vegas full price of $400
Theoretical Vegas upgrade price of $200
I don't remember if there actually was a Vegas 1, but it's not important for this demonstration.

Vegas 1 full price to purchase...$400--- price per version...$400
Vegas 2 price to upgrade from 1...$200---price per version...$300
Vegas 3 price to upgrade from 2...$200---price per version...$267
Vegas 4 price to upgrade from3...$200---price per version...$250
Vegas 5 price to upgrade from 4...$200---price per version...$240

Hey, I guess you're right, repeat Vegas owners ARE rewarded more than newer purchasers!
Oops, I'm sorry, you were trying to prove the opposite, weren't you? ;)

M

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/9/2004, 6:10 PM

Cool, at that rate, after the next 24 upgrades, it'll be free!

J--

sbs56 wrote on 3/10/2004, 7:32 PM

Maybe we should take up a collection and introduce Clyde to Miss Margaret? :-))

p.s. This has got to be on the short list of hall-of-fame Vegas threads...

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:01 AM

"Theoretical Vegas full price of $400
Theoretical Vegas upgrade price of $200
I don't remember if there actually was a Vegas 1, but it's not important for this demonstration.

Vegas 1 full price to purchase...$400--- price per version...$400
Vegas 2 price to upgrade from 1...$200---price per version...$300
Vegas 3 price to upgrade from 2...$200---price per version...$267
Vegas 4 price to upgrade from3...$200---price per version...$250
Vegas 5 price to upgrade from 4...$200---price per version...$240

Hey, I guess you're right, repeat Vegas owners ARE rewarded more than newer purchasers!
Oops, I'm sorry, you were trying to prove the opposite, weren't you? ;)

M"

Now add them all up and you get $1200 paid for the current functionality. Where a new user enters the market today at $400-$600. They half of what we invested and get the same functionality that we have paid for in each version.

ibliss wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:14 AM

"Now add them all up and you get $1200 paid for the current functionality. Where a new user enters the market today at $400-$600. They half of what we invested and get the same functionality that we have paid for in each version"

Why do you assume we're all so thick as to not understand the point you keep trying to put across? That $1200 has paid for the use of the software over the last 4+ years or whatever.

Do you put off upgrading your PC because if you were a first time buyer you'd get the same spec PC for overall less investment?

Your only cause for complaint would be if as an existing software user you had to pay full price for the upgrade copy.

JL wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:32 AM

[Edit]

>>>Now add them all up and you get $1200 paid for the current functionality. Where a new user enters the market today at $400-$600. They half of what we invested and get the same functionality that we have paid for in each version.>>>

This is just the nature of the marketplace for products that evolve over time, especially in the fast-changing technology fields. Consider the ‘how-to’ books that come out in a new edition every one or two years. The authors revise the original material and add new chapters to keep the books up to date. The price is set by what the market will support. How is this unfair to someone who purchased an earlier edition?

Many software users depend on the company to update their products on a regular basis and appreciate being able to upgrade to ‘state-of-the-art’ at a discounted price.

JL

Cheno wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:50 AM

Three things are certain in life..

Death
Taxes
Paying for Sofware Upgrades

winrockpost wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:52 AM

Final fantasy XI is being released , my son being a gamer will probably buy the game. Guess what kind of discount he will receive for owning all the previous versions,

At least software versions usually give users some sort of discount,
No offense to you personally,, but the theory you are preaching is absurd.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 3/11/2004, 8:58 AM

Patrick, I sort of understand where you're coming from. On the other hand, I understand what the others are saying, too.

I'm just curious--no more, no less. What do you think would be a fair price to charge existing customers for upgrading to Vegas 5 if you ran things at Sony?

Thanks!

J--

GaryKleiner wrote on 3/11/2004, 10:05 AM

The acidsex paradigm would dictate that you would buy the software once, then get free upgrades thereafter UNLESS the price of the software went up, then you have to send the software company the difference between what you paid and the new price because everyone must pay the same cumulative price at any given point.

Gary

MyST wrote on 3/11/2004, 1:51 PM

What you want is for software companies to be the exception, not the rule.
You pay for "upgrades" in almost everything in life.
I bought a TV a few years ago. My brother bought the same model a few months later for the same price. The TV now had stereo outputs which mine didn't. I'm SOL.
My girlfriend bought the Mazda Protege5 less than a year ago. The replacement now has 30 more horsepower and 17" wheels as opposed to the 16" wheels on her car, for the same price. She's SOL.
If you can't afford the upgrade, keep the version you've got. You pay the same price as customer B, with fewer bells and whistles. It's like that with almost everything in life.

M

JohnnyRoy wrote on 3/11/2004, 1:58 PM

> Now add them all up and you get $1200 paid for the current functionality. Where a new user enters the market today at $400-$600. They half of what we invested and get the same functionality that we have paid for in each version.

You cannot simply judge this based on current functionality because you’ve been using the product for 5 years in your scenario. So the only sensible measure is price over time of use. Your $1200 investment over the past 5 years has given you this functionality at an average of $240 per year. The new buyer, who will pay $400-600 to use Vegas 5 for the next year until Vegas 6 comes out is paying $400-600 per year! You have been rewarded for your loyalty.

Now next year when Vegas 6 comes out and the upgrade price is $200 you will have paid $1400 for 6 years of service which is $233 per year and the new user who paid $400 for Vegas 5 and upgraded to Vegas 6 for $200, has paid a total of $600 or an average of $300 per year for service. Anyway you cut it, you will have paid less for your usage of Vegas because you are a loyal customer.

So it does work to your benefit because you cannot discount the years you have already been using it (which the new user didn’t get the benefit of) Does it make sense now?

~jr

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/11/2004, 4:36 PM

"Patrick, I sort of understand where you're coming from. On the other hand, I understand what the others are saying, too.

I'm just curious--no more, no less. What do you think would be a fair price to charge existing customers for upgrading to Vegas 5 if you ran things at Sony?

Thanks!

J--"

J, I also understand what the others are saying and if I was on the other side of the fence, I might join in. However, how I would handle this situation is this.

For registered users who came in on VV4 would pay $199. For users who came in on VV3 and ALSO upgraded to VV4, perhaps $99-150 (that eliminates someone holidng back and going from VV3 to VV5). New users of VV5, regular price whatever that may be.

While many dont see my point, my model makes sense and it is customer friendly. However, as I said above, while sales is what drives innovation, what does it really cost to provide additional licenses to run on additional machines? Nothing.

While guys like Gary fail to realize, the way businesses are these days, they have to offer perks to their customers to keep them around. Its silly to think Microsoft doesnt offer a lower price to longtime customers who have kept their business with them. I can speak of this for a fact from an old job I had.

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/11/2004, 4:38 PM

"Final fantasy XI is being released , my son being a gamer will probably buy the game. Guess what kind of discount he will receive for owning all the previous versions,

At least software versions usually give users some sort of discount,
No offense to you personally,, but the theory you are preaching is absurd."

Why is it absurd? I'll tell you why. Because no company practices it. Its absurd because consumers are not smart with their money. Its absurd because consumers dont realize they hold the key.

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/11/2004, 4:43 PM

"The acidsex paradigm would dictate that you would buy the software once, then get free upgrades thereafter UNLESS the price of the software went up, then you have to send the software company the difference between what you paid and the new price because everyone must pay the same cumulative price at any given point.

Gary"

See, gary, your misquoting and misinterpting me. I dont expect free anything. However, I dont expect to keep shelling out big bucks to a company who holds back features or charges users more money to fix crappy coding (i.e Microsoft.) SoFo has always been fair in their pricing.

More importantly, the point I have always made, is that users who DID NOT upgrade to VV4 from VV3, should not receive the same upgrade price to VV5.

Its not about getting something for free. Its about showing grattitude to long time customers. There are many ways to do this without offering lower prices. Perks, extra plugins, extra licenses, etc...

p@mast3rs wrote on 3/11/2004, 4:48 PM

"What you want is for software companies to be the exception, not the rule.
You pay for "upgrades" in almost everything in life.
I bought a TV a few years ago. My brother bought the same model a few months later for the same price. The TV now had stereo outputs which mine didn't. I'm SOL.
My girlfriend bought the Mazda Protege5 less than a year ago. The replacement now has 30 more horsepower and 17" wheels as opposed to the 16" wheels on her car, for the same price. She's SOL.
If you can't afford the upgrade, keep the version you've got. You pay the same price as customer B, with fewer bells and whistles. It's like that with almost everything in life.

M"

Only problem with your argument is that you are talking about tangible products. Software is not a tangible phyical item. The media it comes on is. TVs, cars, electronics will last a lot longer with the"features" it has then software products. Disagree? Ask the users who wanted to upgrade from Premiere 6.5 to Pro and guess what they found out? They were REQUIRED to upgrade to XP if they wanted to use pro. Same went for DVD Encore. Adobe did nothing to ease or compensate the inconvience of their loyal customers. That is why many became Vegas fans.

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