Timeline Playback struggles (Sony A7iv)

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 7:15 PM

Hi,

 

So I got my new Sony a7iv and just loving this little piece of expensive technology. I set to 4:2:0 8 bit 1080p at 60fps, drop it into Vegas 20 and on my timeline and with DRAFT (Quarter) in my video preview video it has trouble keeping up.

I searched this forum and suggestion of proxy files...I dont want to use the camera's proxies (wasn't on, but not going to), is there another work flow I can use, or am I stuck with Vegas creating these proxies?

I have a AMD R9 390 card 32GB ram,

 

 

The sample video file

 

My Media INFO:

General

Complete name :K:\Capture2023\Marko_Nina\Footage\A7iv\C0006.MP4

Format :XAVC

Codec ID :XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)

File size :96.1 MiB

Duration :11 s 11 ms

Overall bit rate mode :Variable

Overall bit rate :73.2 Mb/s

Encoded date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

Tagged date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

 

Video

ID :1

Format :AVC

Format/Info :Advanced Video Codec

Format profile :High@L4.2

Format settings :CABAC / 2 Ref Frames

Format settings, CABAC :Yes

Format settings, RefFrames :2 frames

Codec ID :avc1

Codec ID/Info :Advanced Video Coding

Duration :11 s 11 ms

Bit rate mode :Variable

Bit rate :49.4 Mb/s

Maximum bit rate :60.0 Mb/s

Width :1 920 pixels

Height :1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio :16:9

Frame rate mode :Constant

Frame rate :59.940 (60000/1001) FPS

Color space :YUV

Chroma subsampling :4:2:0

Bit depth :8 bits

Scan type :Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) :0.398

Stream size :64.9 MiB (67%)

Encoded date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

Tagged date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

Color range :Limited

Color primaries :BT.709

Transfer characteristics :BT.709

Matrix coefficients :BT.709

 

Audio

ID :2

Format :PCM

Format settings :Big / Signed

Format settings, Endianness :Big

Format settings, Sign :Signed

Codec ID :twos

Duration :11 s 11 ms

Bit rate mode :Constant

Bit rate :1 536 kb/s

Channel(s) :2 channels

Sampling rate :48.0 kHz

Bit depth :16 bits

Stream size :2.02 MiB (2%)

Encoded date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

Tagged date :UTC 2023-05-27 13:05:24

 

Other

Type :meta

Duration :11 s 11 ms

 

Comments

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 7:18 PM

Here is a sample of the timeline playback that chokes often.

 

and if I open a new project with same settings seems to be working fine.

 

 

Last changed by Julius_ on 5/31/2023, 7:27 PM, changed a total of 5 times.

i7-6800 (Intel 3.40GHz, 6 cores)

Windows 10 PRO (up to date)

32GB Ram

MB: x99A Raider, MS-7885 (MSI)

SDD+HDD

AMD Radeon R9 390

Vegas user since V5

Realtek audio

 

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 7:23 PM

This works fine if I just toss the clips on an empty timeline (sorry I had to create separate posts because couldnt upload all the files)

Last changed by Julius_ on 5/31/2023, 7:25 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

i7-6800 (Intel 3.40GHz, 6 cores)

Windows 10 PRO (up to date)

32GB Ram

MB: x99A Raider, MS-7885 (MSI)

SDD+HDD

AMD Radeon R9 390

Vegas user since V5

Realtek audio

 

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 7:49 PM

@Julius_ Hi, there's been a few posts about XAVC, you'll have to do a search, & your MediaInfo says 59.940fps but your project is at 29.97fps. You changed it to 29.97fps in your second vid, does it play any better at 59.95p?

No...29 or 59 same thing...what I dont understand is why it play nicely on a empty project...I did search but couldn't nail down a solution (mostly speaks of proxies)....maybe it's my graphics card.

 

Former user wrote on 5/31/2023, 7:51 PM

@Julius_

Hi, there's been a few posts about XAVC, I think they were about 10bit files tho & yours is 8bit so you'll have to do a search, & your MediaInfo says 59.940fps but your project is at 29.97fps. You changed it to 29.97fps in your second vid, does it play any better at 59.95p?

PS. if you want you can share a sample on Google Drive or another file sharing site so people can try it out.

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 8:27 PM

@Julius_

Hi, there's been a few posts about XAVC, I think they were about 10bit files tho & yours is 8bit so you'll have to do a search, & your MediaInfo says 59.940fps but your project is at 29.97fps. You changed it to 29.97fps in your second vid, does it play any better at 59.95p?

PS. if you want you can share a sample on Google Drive or another file sharing site so people can try it out.

What's weird is that if you just put the clips on a empty timeline it works (see 3rd post video). My project has about 800 clips. I get the feeling that Vegas isn't making use of the graphics card correctly (known issues from posts)...just trying to find something that works

RogerS wrote on 5/31/2023, 8:31 PM

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with this media (just 8-bit AVC) or your GPU and VEGAS. You shouldn't need proxies either. There's likely an issue with project and/or VEGAS settings.

If you want to make a sample project available with one piece of media I'd be happy to take a look.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 8:49 PM

Trying to narrow down this problem..

1. Using the same project, I rename the folder, re-open vegas, point to about 5 clips (that I copied to another folder) and playback works.

2. I create a new project and I add 5 (same clips) to the timeline, duplicate the clips to 800 times, created 4 duplicate tracks and it still works fine

3. Just my current project doesn;t play nicely...maybe I am hitting a buffer somewhere

My GPU/Cpu is barely being used (see 1st post video)

My veg file along with 5 sample clips:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ecFrClY2KioyebbBWJmLjdFkcQ7H1DpQ?usp=sharing

Last changed by Julius_ on 5/31/2023, 8:51 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

i7-6800 (Intel 3.40GHz, 6 cores)

Windows 10 PRO (up to date)

32GB Ram

MB: x99A Raider, MS-7885 (MSI)

SDD+HDD

AMD Radeon R9 390

Vegas user since V5

Realtek audio

 

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 8:59 PM

I found an old post (by meeee!) to try out:

 

Joelson wrote on 6/24/2021, 5:17 PM

@Julius_

1.Go to Options/Preferences. In Video set Dynamic Ram Preview Max. to "0" and in GPU acceleration of video processing set "OFF"

2.Right click mouse button in Vegas icon on Desktop/choose open file location/search FileIO Plug-Ins folder and rename the folder so4compoundplug to so4compoundplug.OFF/ Open Vegas and see if that solves.

This can be undone anytime you want

RogerS wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:04 PM

Don't do your old tips. If you really want to disable GPU decoding it's in preferences/ file io "enable legacy AVC" in Vegas Pro 18+.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:05 PM

@EdiTools 

I'm gonna have to put you on the payroll :)

I found the post with the solution.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/how-to-get-better-playback-performance-in-the-video-preview-window--130056/

 

Thanks everyone!!

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:06 PM

Don't do your old tips. If you really want to disable GPU decoding it's in preferences/ file io "enable legacy AVC" in Vegas Pro 18+.

Will do!

I dont really want to disable GPU or my dynamic ram....but I dont have any other choice

BTW: Your suggestion also works!

 

Last changed by Julius_ on 5/31/2023, 9:10 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

i7-6800 (Intel 3.40GHz, 6 cores)

Windows 10 PRO (up to date)

32GB Ram

MB: x99A Raider, MS-7885 (MSI)

SDD+HDD

AMD Radeon R9 390

Vegas user since V5

Realtek audio

 

RogerS wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:11 PM

It's odd you'd create a new post with exactly the same issue as you had in the past and not link back to it. Both times you get comments about the same discrepancies between media framerate and project settings. This time you left out the system hardware in use except for GPU.

Enabling legacy AVC is a workaround for decoder issues. Not sure why you'd need to also turn off the dynamic ram preview buffer.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:15 PM

It's odd you'd create a new post with exactly the same issue as you had in the past and not link back to it. Both times you get comments about the same discrepancies between media framerate and project settings. This time you left out the system hardware in use except for GPU.

Enabling legacy AVC is a workaround for decoder issues. Not sure why you'd need to also turn off the dynamic ram preview buffer.

I'm starting to forget things :(

RogerS wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:22 PM

Your video here isn't quantized to frames which may well lead to issues with GPU decoding.

Enable the settings as shown here and avoid all red lines in video and image tracks at all costs.

The unquantized frames (frames that don't line up with your project frameline boundaries) may be a symptom of a framerate mismatch- especially if you'd changed project settings after adding the media (was it initially at an even 60fps, 30fps or other value)?

(I assume the reason to shoot 59fps on a 29fps project is to be able to do 2x slowmotion which is totally fine.)

FWIW, my 2017-era laptop at best/full is having no issues playing back the HD 29.970p files. There is a brief flicker in C0001.mp4 but that's true of the file opened in a media player, too.

 

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Julius_ wrote on 5/31/2023, 9:40 PM

yes it's not quantized....I actually do that for a reason for my editing flow and later visibility, I know it's weird. I don't change the project setting once I start the editing...I actually delete the audio track later.

Correct, about the slow-motion!!

I turned on the dynamic ram and so far so good!

That tip above about checking for AVC and 8 bit is what lead to me finding my old post.

THANK YOU!

 

RogerS wrote on 5/31/2023, 11:23 PM

Pretty sure the quantize issue is the cause of your problems. Respecting frame boundaries is important for video. A tool like Vegasaur can quantize them all at once if you really need this workflow.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7