"Funny thing is, probably one of the most significant upgrades in V8 is in the XDCAM area and yet not a single comment from the usual suspects about it here."

LOL hmmmmm..... i wonder why... more than likely their thoughts are now leaning towards the "i wish this was in Avid" mentality....

Most of you have missed my point. There is a big difference between whining and make constructive criticism.

Vegas user John Cline, for example, sends bugs to the development team, rather than posting flippant remarks. He's being proactive. What a novel idea!

What a load of rubbish, you think he's the only one who sends bug reports?
Maybe some of us are just tired of sending them, being told to trash everything and after a few months finally been told that they've known about the problem all along with no ETA for fixes and no apologies for the money or clients lost. A reputable business warns its users of known issues, funny I've never seen that done here until after there's been a LOT of whining.
How many times have YOU gone in to bat for Team Vegas and come out with egg on your face?
Yeah I'm still batting for Team Vegas.

Bob.

Bob, don't be a dork.

Did I say John was the ONLY one who did it? I used him as a example.

C'mon guys. Let's lighten up on each other.

If there are any Adobe people who participate in this forum, I for one welcome them. Some of you have been here as long as I have and many even longer. We have what seems to me to be half of the membership that we had a few years ago. I don't want to chase anyone away. And as for conspiracy theories, it takes a larger membership than we have to suspect that a group of conspirators could exist among us.

John

"What a load of rubbish, you think he's the only one who sends bug reports?
Maybe some of us are just tired of sending them"

As for team vegas, i have to agree that Bobs hit the ball with this one..

the issue stems from afew things which weve already discussed since each version has been respectivly releasd..
when V5 was launched and Sony took over, alot of external Beta testing came to an end and its now pretty much a boys club...
Dont get me wrong beta testers have a job to do, but ever since V5, we have seen ongoing issues with "a" builds.. fair enough there are issues with all software upon release.. thats a given, but to THIS extent, well.. IMO it hasnt been tested thoroughly enough .

The fact that documentation doesnt evenspecify how certain elements work, such as AVCHD with 5.1 authoring to BD.. thats just one example.. how do we know it works if theres hardly anyting on it to begin with? Has anyone tested it and verified that it works the way its been advertised? This is the point im making. all these questions COULD have been answered prior to release...

As i mentioned once before, if beta testers focused on problems and real world uses, requirements and environments and assisted in solution troubleshooting, then alot of the problems were seeing, such as memory access, random app shut down, Cineform issues, plugin comptability, performance etc etc SHOULD have been picked up on beta test.. Thats what it all comes down to..

I for one DONT want to be a paying Beta tester.. in fact i think its rude to expect trial users and upgraders to be used in such a manner...
Software with issues does nothing to boost the market perception of the app in general, and by doing this Sony are shooting themselves in the foot.

Understandably, NDA's are a prerequisite, but i think many of us here are more than qualified to offer our time to test an application we're loyal to.

I beta tested for Pinnacle many moons ago, and their prerequisite was that not only did u understand the fundamentals of NLEing, but also you were savvy enough to be able to discuss any issue without umming or arghing..

Come on , the way Sony have been releasing Vegas since V5, its come to a poitn where one no longer bothers with an "A" build as we expect there to be more problems than solutions..

Sadly, with these problems come more work, in the end, sony are again shooting themselves, as these problems could have easily ben rectified prior to release and they could have saved face by simply opening the testing grounds to trusted users and distribtors... in turn, not only have they released a substandard product based on the defects (V8 is not defective per se, but there ARE defeats which need adressing) but by doing so theyve now got egg on their faces are in damage control

The point?
All this could have been avoided if say for proper testing...which is obvious hasnt occured since v5..

Okay, DJ, you and Bob write a "bug free" program as complex as Vegas Pro 8. Show us all how easy it is.

Mate, i never said it was easy, i never said i could do a better job.. Get over it.. and read my post before trying to snipe me.
Weve all been civil here, and i dont expect things to turn for the worst simply because of a difference of opinion.

My point was, and ill reiterate..
Im saying that it needs to be tested .
It hasnt been tested EXTENSIVELY since Sony took over and changed the rules about Beta testing since V5.
These "at launch" problems continualy pop up and have been since V5. Most of these are real world scenarios in real world environments and in all fairness, SHOULD have been picked up by the Beta testers. I mean Cineform issues? There shouldnt be any...

Obviously youve got your blinders on here coz its obvious there ARE issues and if theyre not pointed out, then theyre never going to be repaired.
I understand that its the "how" these issues are bought to our attention which is whats buggin you, but mate, we live in a free world where poeple are gonna say what they think, when they think wherever they think it..

The issue i have is that these issues could have been managed in a much more efficient and less embaressing way by a simple means of THOROUGH testing.

In turn the original post about gripers would be obsolete as repetition of problems wouldnt fill this forum with a myriad of multiple posts..

The price I've seen is $149.95 -- where can I save an addtional $15?!

"Well we're happy to get a new titler for a paltry $135, that alone makes this a wonderful deal."

The download price is $15 less.

DJ, don't be a dolt. I've NEVER said don't point out the issues. All I'm suggesting is try doing it in a way that is constructive and positive and that contributes.

Oh i agree 100%, dont get me wrong...

The point im making is that most of the mission critical problems should have been resolved prior ot launch

as for being a dolt, well thats a matter of opinion.. but i wont lower myself to retort

The above exchange only proves again the old adage, when you engage in a pissing match all you get is wet.

Why should any Vegas user need to write a bug free program as big as Vegas in order to have an opinion. They don't write it, they just use it. It's like telling someone that in order to fly they need to be able to design a plane that won't crash. Offering a service that is thoroughly tested should be the norm, not an exception.

Wow, that is easy. I just needed someone else to point out the problem.

There's another issue that might escape many here if you're lucky enough to live in the continental USA.

If you feel you need it you can pay for phone support.

From my experiecne being able to explain in conversation what your problems is can alter the response time from days or weeks to minutes and cut out one heck of a lot of frustration in the middle. If you hit a snag, let alone a bug, with a client looking on, you guys can suggest the client go get a coffee while you ring Sony, sounds damn impressive.

Unfortunately for the rest of the world we don't get that privelege. The local dealer does his best but really has no more direct lines of communication than the rest of us poor sods in PAL land.

Vegas is now sold in several languages so is really pitching to the global market, support needs to catch up. Until it does all the rest of the world can really do is come here and have the good old dummy spit. It mightn't read too polite at times, sorry if we offend anyone but this is a tough game and this forum is actually very polite compared to some. In the end better words in the ether than keyboards out windows.

Bob.

In the big pictures software companies with more developers and who charge a LOT more for their products have a lot more bugs. I think for the money charged ($135) Sony is doing a great job.

Just the opinion of a 44 year old who has been around computers since Apple ][ was brand new.

Well I know I don't post alot, I just read and learn, I mainly post the Vegas Movie section to help when I can, I have been using Vegas since version 3. I am currently running 7, I know you guys don't know me very well, But I tend to believe that there are trolls lurking about.
And yes, I do use Premiere

"when you engage in a pissing match all you get is wet."

I hear there is quite the internet market for that type of content. Just kidding, trying to lighten up what appears to have been an antagonistic thread with the same type posts returned.