"As for Sonic Abandoning a product, Avid bundles Sonic DVDitPro HD. Which has numerous features that DVDA is missing... like support for VC-1. And unlike Vegas, Media Composer can send a reference file to it, so no render is necessary, saving perhaps hours of time in the case of a Blu-Ray."
Yes I know. I have DVDitPro HD and I haven't seen an update in lord knows how long. The forum moderator has vacated his post and it's now almost impossible to get support. I've had numerous support tickets go unanswered for months now. For the money I paid for the program.... I'm feeling quite abandoned and ripped off. I don't know what's going on with Sonic, but it's almost like they have dropped off the planet. I bought DVDit because it seemed to be an up-coming star.... then all of a sudden it just plain died.
I know this may be seen in poor taste, and for that I apologize. I know I've knocked Vegas around a bit the past week or two, but I still cut in it and I will be cutting in it for projects that make sense.
However, for those of you who cut in P2 or XDCam, this is a link to a short video about how Media Composer works with it's new AMA structure.
That should serve as a shining example to anyone putting out an NLE. And do note the performance as these things are pushed onto the timeline. He's on a laptop...
For those interested in seeing the mix/match frame size and frame rate stuff:
No rendering, real-time performance with effects and transtions... on a laptop.
Interesting to note about Sonic. Well, we'll see what happens. And I don't want you to feel as though I am slamming your posts. I am not. Though I do feel that maybe you are not up to speed on some of the newest Avid stuff, your opinions are certainly correct about the older programs. And I'd never really paid much attention to Avid in the past.
The demo for MC4 caught me totally off guard, and I started thinking about moving over. The lack of captioning support in Vegas REALLY caused me some headaches, and then the lack of speed even after I spent $5k plus on my new editing machine really left me disillusioned.
I was buoyed by the responses for the RED support, DPX/EXR support, and numerous other things, but the underlying core needs a ground up re-think. At least for professional use. As an event program, it's pretty darn good, stability aside. But the lack of reasonable titling, lack of CC support, lack of support for a number of pro codecs, lack of quicktime codec support, and lack of being able to leverage the GPU, are just a LOT to overcome in a pro-level app.
yes, quite correct... poor taste. This is not a MC board. But since you're here....How does MC handle with native avchd? How about native mpeg? How well can you edit audio (compared to vegas)? Can you operate MC on ANY vid card? How well does it work in Windows7?
"Though I do feel that maybe you are not up to speed on some of the newest Avid stuff,"
I see... so you're saying that they've updated Avid DVD and DVDitPro HD??
Come on... get serious. For $2500 I'm going to get stuck with second rate dvd production programs. I'm terribly sorry but there's something dreadfully wrong with this picture. DVDitPro can't even create a standard Blu Ray ISO.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying MC is a bad program. What I am saying is that it's great for film production, but for the Event Videographer... no... it just doesn't work.
hmmm...as one might expect on a vegas forum, the vegas faithful are rising to the occasion. No one can fault you for believing what you wish. DVDITPRO has successfully burned bluray titles for me when DVDA failed, and visa versa. Having both tools in my toolbox is a good idea, and I've not found any one to be more exceptional than the other. DVDITPRO ships as a bundle with Avid Media Composer, together with Boris Continuum Complete plugin set, at no additional charge. So, the issue of purchasing separately is moot. Avid will export to DVDITPRO in a renderless step. Vegas requires a third party frameserver to do this,
Furthermore, I routinely use MC all the time. I've not found Vegas to be particularly handy unless I have some serious audio work to get done. For this use, Vegas wins.
For events with many takes, or cameras, the Avid file management system is much more professionally capable than Vegas, IMHO. But, again, that's just my opinion. I shoot an EX1 and JVC HD110, both recording to a Convergent Design Nanoflash. Avid handles the MXF format quite well, but, I can't speak to AVCHD, since that's really a consumer format. By next year, rumor has it that AMC will natively import Cineform DI.
I currently run MC4 on a Windows XP SP3 system and have a trial running on Windows 7 Professional 64 bit. MC4 has worked without a hiccup on the Win7 64 bit system...and using 8Gb of memory, is quite fast. A few of the plugins from BCC don't work, yet. I assume they will be updated soon. I am transitioning my entire work platforms to 64 bit win7...it just runs... no fuss, no muss. It's a common misconception to believe that AMC is only for film work. That was once true, but, times have changed...and they changed a few years ago. If Vegas works for you, by all means, go for it.
"hmmm...as one might expect on a vegas forum, the vegas faithful are rising to the occasion."
Well what the heck do you expect???? You people are actually here ADVERTISING Avid products on a Sony board!?!?! I'm shocked you even have the gall! The absolutely amazing part is that you're doing it in a thread entitled Veags won Videomaker's 2009 Best Video Ed. I guess MC failed to attract?
For the record... I've produced (estimate) 600 to 700 blu ray disks in DVDa thus far and haven't had ONE fail so if you had them fail then a I suppose I should ask what you're doing wrong? And I will repeat... DVDitPro can't even create a standard Blu ray ISO file.
MC is NOT supported on Windows7.... don't try and make like it is.
Look... Bill, if you're trying to convince.... you're doing it badly. As far as I'm concerned, Avid is an old and tired company desperately holding on to the few threads in the editing field they have left. What are they down to now... MC and Pinnacle Studio, with Sonic sitting somewhere off in the corner? What a match that is eh ;)
Haven't tried AVCHD yet. Ask me on the weekend after I finish my current project. Haven't tried any Mpeg2 stuff yet either other than my XDCamEX which is FLYING. I don't know about the audio editor because the audio tool doesn't come with the free trial.
MC cannot operate on any video card. But I'd rather be able to have it USE the card than to have my $1500 Quadro sit idle. It's working fine on Win7 RC which is what I have been using for months now on my editing machine.
"But I'd rather be able to have it USE the card than to have my $1500 Quadro sit idle."
Right, soooo $1500 on the card, $2500 on the program... probably another $500 on a WORTHWHILE dvd production program....Vegas Pro for the audio editing ....because I know for a fact that MC stinks at audio editing (that's another $500).... tell me....where exactly does this money pit stop???
PS... Don't bother wasting your time with native avchd testing... MC doesn't support it.
We are not advertising MC. At least I am not. I merely gave an example of why I use the tool, and have answered questions, and tried to correct misinformation as the thread has gone on.
Regardless, you're not going to listen to anything we have to say, and that's just fine. It's just unfortunate that those who might be looking to add a tool to their arsenal as others of us have, are going to have to wade through your bias and misinformation.
As far as sound editing apps go, I'd say ProTools is pretty darn standard and that's an Avid product as well.
Vegas Pro is the right application for numerous things. Something I've acknowledged several times in this tread, and it will continue to be a part of my workflow. Frankly, I see being fluent in more than one editor a positive rather than a negative. And I'll continue to support Vegas as long as it continues to provide it's current level of value to me.
I am quite sure that the primary Vegas customer is not a primary Avid customer. So I personally don't see the conflict. Heck, the bundled compression app included with Avid costs more than Vegas. It's playing in a different ballgame.
Oh, and as to your point about MC being supported on Win7, yes you're right. It's not officially supported, nor did we say it was. Nonetheless, it is working for me, and numerous other editors out there.
Sorry to have upset your apple cart today. Have a nice evening.
The money pit stops right at the point where I can't get my work done. To me, that's the difference between Pro,and not. I am willing to pay money to deliver my product. Whether that be broadcast, Blu-Ray, DVD, web, or whatever I am asked to do. And I'll use whatever tool is at my disposal to do so.
"Vegas Pro is the right application for numerous things. Something I've acknowledged several times in this tread, and it will continue to be a part of my workflow. Frankly, I see being fluent in more than one editor a positive rather than a negative. And I'll continue to support Vegas as long as it continues to provide it's current level of value to me."
Agree completely... but I don't flaunt my other programs in the wrong forums... and YES you ARE advertising. Need we look up the definition in the dictionary?
"I am willing to pay money to deliver my product. "
Again, agree completely and as soon as MC and Avid catch up to the times of today they too will receive my wallet and my attention.... but until then... money better spent elsewhere.
Please.. if Vegas can't even support standard OTS m2t or Cineform AVI's consistently without crashing HARD, please, don't even go there with a lame A$$ consumer excuse for AVCHD format...
Both my business and I've personally lost valuable time and $ because Vegas Pro has more or less dropped the ball on supporting standard m2t or CF AVI. Nothing cutting, let alone bleeding edge, on the hardware front.
The money pit stops when one can get their work done on time and on budget - if that means spending the amount that Avid MC costs (or Edius, FCP, etc), and you meet the needs of your client being on time and on budget, then it doesn't matter what the NLE costs.
"Both my business and I've personally lost valuable time and $ because Vegas Pro has more or less dropped the ball on supporting standard m2t or CF AVI. Nothing cutting, let alone bleeding edge, on the hardware front."
Then for goodness sakes if you feel so strongly then why are you here??? If I lost money over a support product, I'd be gone like white lightening! Contrary from the way it may appear, I have no loyalty to any of these products. The only loyalty I have is to my business.
You see, this is what I don't get. If you're not happy with your production platform and feel it ineffective then why aren't you doing something about it? Crying foul on a public forum does absolutely nothing to stop the wallet from bleeding.
Crying foul on a public forum does absolutely nothing to stop the wallet from bleeding.
Really? What makes you think this thread isn't being watched by the powers that be @ SCS. Maybe this very thread is the impetus to make things right with Vegas. Who knows....
Right now, Edius is becoming my beverage of choice given the past few days and the multiple cluster frack fiasco with Vegas Pro trying to deliver to my clients and making excuses over and over is inexcusable. I have/need to meet the needs of my clients first and foremost and for anyone making a living shooting/cutting video content it makes or breaks your business - especially in the current economy.
Why am I here? Because I believe in the "CONCEPT" of VP9. That's why.
Perrone
I downloaded the zip file of "Avid QuickTime Codecs LE 2.1" (which includes DNxHD codec) from the Avid site, and unzipped it. There were two files, AvidCodecsLESetup.exe and Assumptions_AvidCodecsLE.doc. The assumptions assume Win XP SP2, but I have SP3. The installation appears to progress normally, but there is no Avid directory created with appropriate files. The only sign is an entry in the installed programs list via control Panel. I can apparently repair or remove the codecs, but where are the files (including the uninstall program)? Do you know if I absolutely MUST have SP2 and not SP3?
I don't see what your gripe is. Sony make products for Avid's Protools. I've not been to a Sony roadshow or product launch where Sony weren't talking about how well their new gizmo worked with Avid's systems. The two companies are far closer to being partners than competitors. Vegas would be the one and only product where they'd be in competition although Sony have never promoted Vegas as an option for their high end hardware and cameras, in reality it simply doesn't work with a lot of it fully, if at all.
Sony a few years back did have a shot at competing with Avid's NLEs. Xpri was a pretty fine system but didn't gain enough traction to make it viable. As far as I know it was abandoned a few years back. More's the pity, the HUI hardware was very, very nice, would love to have seen it working with Vegas. There was some collaboration between the Xpri team and the Vegas team, hopes were high but nothing came of it. Having vertical integration between Vegas and a realtime broadcast system would have given Vegas quite a boost.
As for he award Videomaker magazine awarded I agree with them. For their target audience Vegas is arguably the best fit. That magazine though is not an industry magazine, it's target audience is consummers, not professionals.
By the way, Cineform's codecs do work with FCP and Adobe's products, Cineform's high end codecs work nicely in Ppro, better in AE, not quite so well in FCP and are no shows in Vegas.
"Right now, Edius is becoming my beverage of choice given the past few days and the multiple cluster frack fiasco with Vegas Pro trying to deliver to my clients and making excuses over and over is inexcusable. I have/need to meet the needs of my clients first and foremost and for anyone making a living shooting/cutting video content it makes or breaks your business - especially in the current economy."
Edius is a reasonable program. I'm certainly not proficient at it but I can nurse my way through it. From what I have learned of it thus far though, it does not compare to vegas in the depth that it can go.
Forgive me for asking... I don't want to appear to be rubbing salt in the wound... but what makes you think this is a Vegas issue and not a cineform one? I've used Cineform a few times (not just in Vegas either) and had nothing but trouble with it
Wow mate,
now that was impressive. As a fellow XDCAM EX owner thank you for that. It takes me so close to realtime to get EX footage into V9 I keep asking myself why I gave Sony $10K for a tapeless camera.
I don't edit enough of my own footage to justify the outlay on an Avid system this year :)
And metadata, oh my. I just bought a laptop, in part to use on the road and OS to log my EX clips on the day using Clipbrowser. I'm sure you get my point.
If you think I have some sort of objection to spending money or something of that nature, then you would be sadly mistaken. There is however a fine line between spending money wisely.... and wasting it.
the avid codecs are installed into the QUICKTIME/QTcomponents folder.
..and for the record to people like RobFranks:
I have no vested interest in Avid or any NLE vendor. I am an editor who has a knee jerk resistance to any software application that causes me grief while making a living. Say what you wish about me, or my skills, or the fact that I'm a dork, I don't care. My intent is to share with other editors which products work for me and which ones don't. I have a long history with Vegas, all the way back to version 3. I have a soft spot in my dorky heart for Vegas. I'm very disappointed that it's fallen into the category of balky software. For whatever the reason, Avid works, and works well. For my own experience, I never know when Vegas is gonna hang, then I spend a day I can't afford finding workarounds. Avid has never done that to me. The few times I've had to call Avid customer support, they were right there for me. Does Sony Vegas have a customer support? (I know, they say they do)