Vegas 10 First impressions

Sebaz wrote on 10/11/2010, 2:34 PM

Overall I would say my first impression is positive, although scrubbing the timeline with AVCHD footage crashed it about a minute into opening it for the first time, but it hasn't happened since. What I still can't understand from programmers of most software companies is why the user settings are not saved until the program closes. Whatever preferences you set, if the program crashes, you lose them. You have to waste time setting them all over again. This is not only in Sony software, but almost in every piece of software that I have ever used, and it's just retarded.

Regardless of that, when I got Vegas 10 up and running I was gladly surprised to see that Sony had put some effort in reworking the H.264 reader, like Eugenia had mentioned the other day. Playback of AVCHD footage is faster. I was able to play real time with keyframed color correction and levels in Preview Full mode, and if I didn't keyframe color correction, only levels, I was able to play the footage in real time with both filters on.

The GPU accelerated AVC encoding still needs some work. I took three files of AVCHD footage, I put them on the timeline and ran some encoding tests. The total time of these three files together is 00:01:09;02. I didn't put any filters on them. Without GPU encoding, it took 6:30 to encode. With GPU acc., it took 4:52, what I would say a small gain. Premiere CS5 took 1:43 to encode the same exact footage, and in Premiere the GPU is not used to accelerate encoding. In fact, I selected MPE software only and it took exactly the same. This is with the two settings for high quality checked.

I also encoded the same footage with x264 to compare visually, and I couldn't find any difference between the three, so Premiere wins the contest hands down because it encoded in almost real time, while Vegas took about four times more than real time with GPU acceleration. The good news is that at least using the GPU in Vegas doesn't degrade the quality of the encoding.

One thing that annoys me is that now to keyframe filters you have to press an Animate button where the keyframes were until now, and I don't see the point of adding an extra step even if it's just pressing a button.

As for DVD Architect 5.2, it brings some really nice new themes, but I was very disappointed to see that it still doesn't support MBAFF (Macroblock Adaptive Frame-Field Coding), so if I want to encode in x264, which is the best quality h.264 encoder, I'll have to keep using Adobe Encore to author BDs.

I think that if you work a lot with AVCHD footage it's a worthy upgrade, especially if you get the email with the $140 upgrade.

Please feel free to add to this thread with your own first impressions and/or tips.

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Comments

PeterWright wrote on 10/12/2010, 8:22 AM

Yes, thanks Randy - I should remember some of our international community may not be familiar with such vernacular.

DGates wrote on 10/12/2010, 2:11 PM

*The credit roll is a ridiculous amateur implementation as we all know.*

The same could be said about credit rolls in general. I doubt you're making feature films, so why do you need one? You certainly don't see them in TV projects.

I'm glad Sony is improving the stuff that most of of use, not the silly hobbyist features.

bdg wrote on 10/12/2010, 2:56 PM

The only disapointment so far is the "VU Meters".
Wha?
They look absolutely nothing like VU meters. These are just vertical meters with (presumably) VU ballistics.
Useless, and meaningless to me.
Pity, I was looking forward to watching a string of good old VU meters once again.
Oh well, they don't come up on the main screen anyway.

John_Cline wrote on 10/12/2010, 3:27 PM

"The only disapointment so far is the VU Meters."

Are you talking about the VU meters in the mixing console of the individual track meters in the timeline? I find them both incredibly useful but particularly the individual timeline track VU meters. Forever it has been possible to create a situation due to track levels, EQ or compression to create audio clipping and have no immediate way of knowing about it. The track meters solve this quite nicely.

In my opinion, Vegas Pro v10 is the most significant upgrade to Vegas in a long time. It's loaded with useful new features.

craftech wrote on 10/12/2010, 5:03 PM

The same could be said about credit rolls in general. I doubt you're making feature films, so why do you need one? You certainly don't see them in TV projects.
===========
I shoot stage productions. That's my trade. For musicals and even some recitals a credit roll is a must.

There still isn't any real excuse for leaving the original Vegas Credit Roll generator unchanged for more years than I can count anymore. Sorry, but it's been my pet peeve. It's not like a few improvements would have required Sony (or Sonic Foundry before them) canvasing the globe for the finest programmers money could buy or anything.

John

bdg wrote on 10/13/2010, 9:44 AM

It appears that only the mixing console has these fake VU meters.

I was expecting VU meters that actually look like VU meters - a needle rotating in an arc about one end, the moving portion with a nice roundy (sort of) pointer - all set against a yellow background and having the outline of the meter coloured in black.

It's all we used back in the day.
I lived with those for so many years - thought Vegas was going to do it with this release. Oh well - Bummer.

By the way I just crashed V10 playing with the options for the so called VU meters.

rs170a wrote on 10/13/2010, 11:43 AM

I was expecting VU meters that actually look like VU meters

VU meter plugin
Finally, a VST plugin that doesn't do anything at all! To your audio, that is. But if you've ever wanted a realistic VU meter bridge inside your DAW, VU just might be exactly what you are looking for!

Mike

Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/13/2010, 2:21 PM

I think the objective was to implement a useful feature rather than to pander to some users' visual nostalgia.

geoff

rs170a wrote on 10/13/2010, 3:05 PM

I must not understand what the problem is as I don't see any difference between the meters in the mixing console and the main meters in Vegas.
I learned my trade on "real" VU meters too and, while reluctant at first, have accepted the new meters without any worries.
BTW, very few pro audio consoles these days are equipped with the old-style VU meters any more.

Mike

ushere wrote on 10/13/2010, 3:55 PM

ok, installed (flawlessly), registered and up and running. (though i'm not yet game to save any projects i'm working on quite yet - just in case).

first thing that struck me was the grey interface which, on 9, i turned off immediately as soon as i found explorer, etc., had white bckgrds. ugh! well they're gone and i'm going to give the grey a whirl, though to my old eyes it's a tad too dark for the icons and toolbar text to stand out clearly.

really like the blue highlights round selected icons - now i know for sure quant is on or off!

happy camper so far.....

Rob Franks wrote on 10/13/2010, 4:10 PM

"I was expecting VU meters that actually look like VU meters"

Old style vu meters??? That has to be about the strangest one I've heard yet. The meters presently available show all that's needed with a fraction of the rather valued screen real estate.

Opampman wrote on 10/13/2010, 4:30 PM

At 67 I grew up on analog VU meters...installed thousands on custom built mixers, Yeah, they were nice but so was 16mm film. I wouldn't trade any of them for a good pair of digital meters - like in VP10!

ChristoC wrote on 10/13/2010, 7:31 PM

Anyone noticed - When changing the VU meter style, the meter in the Preview channel of Mixer does not change; it always displays "Traditional VU".

BTW I always thought "Traditional VU" was scaled -20 to +3, not -10 to +3. ..... as described in the Handbook For Audio Engineers (Glen Ballou)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=y0d9VA0lkogC&pg=PA862&lpg=PA862&dq=old+vu+meter+scale&source=bl&ots=APua0Ce2sP&sig=Jdmi_XGHi-ztEIWi8NGv0EtzlVQ&hl=en&ei=wm22TNb6JdCrccfjvLED&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=old%20vu%20meter%20scale&f=false

or are we trying to emulate a 70's Sony Dictaphone here?

LoTN wrote on 10/13/2010, 9:00 PM

For those puzzled about these VU meters in the mixing console and their use.

Bob Katz level pratices.
AES- An Integrated Approach to Metering, Monitoring, and Levelling Practices.
ITU Recommendation J.15 - Lining-up and monitoring an international sound-programme connection.

DGates wrote on 10/13/2010, 10:07 PM

*I was expecting VU meters that actually look like VU meters - a needle rotating in an arc about one end, the moving portion with a nice roundy (sort of) pointer - all set against a yellow background and having the outline of the meter coloured in black.*

That's just silly. This isn't the 80's. In fact, go take a look at any modern professional soundboard console used for production work that has meters, and you will see the same kind that V10 is trying to mimic.

PeterWright wrote on 10/14/2010, 12:25 AM

The other thing I seem to remember about Vu meters was that, because they were mechanical, they were always a bit late, and didn't have the ability to tell you afterwards how high they'd just been.

LoTN wrote on 10/14/2010, 1:28 AM

Yes, by design they have a natural latency with no way to hold peaks. Some of them have a led lit when signal clipping occurs.

[The following is my understanding of the issue when being an audiophile during the past years. In case of error, feel free to correct me]

In today digital age peak meters are real time meters. There is no integration time (or so little) that their accuracy is at sample level. With these, one can control that the digital signal never gets clipped, i.e. make sure the medium is used within the specs limits. The downside is that it is difficult to have a visual perception of the loudness and available headroom for transcients.

For my amateur 5.1 mixes, I'm happy Vegas has got VU meters. It will help my old ears when trying to create a good mastering since I don't have a calibrated studio.

There is an interesting free plugin here. No tested yet.

farss wrote on 10/14/2010, 2:02 AM

There's a free VST plugin that provides retro VU meters. I agree the option to have such meters in Vegas at least on the busses would have been a nice touch. Angular meters are easier to read than linear and are still used in many applications.

VU meters by definition must be "late". The IEC spec defines fairly precise (+/-10%) ballistics for VU meters. I used to have an unused set of 6" mirror scaled VU meters I picked up for a couple of dollars each and then a few years later threw away without ever using them. No doubt worth a tidy sum today :(
The main use of VU meters in apps such as Vegas is to judge loudness so they are a welcome addition. A phase correlation meter as provided in SF would also have been nice but we got VU meters at least so can't complain.

The main reason VU meters gave way to PPM meters is because in the days of analog tape going 'over' just pushed the sound into tape saturation which can be quite pleasant. Doing the same with digital is just horrible. Today one can spend a considerable sum to get outboard gear that emulates tape saturation. Makes my old second hand 1/4" deck quite a bargain at $65 :)

If you want modern physical meters the best ones are from Dorrough.

Bob.

LoTN wrote on 10/14/2010, 2:22 AM

Nice beasts...

For the plugin are you thinking about the great PSP VintageMeter or something better ?

farss wrote on 10/14/2010, 2:37 AM

"are you thinking about the great PSP VintageMeter "

Indeed. Being an old fart sometimes I like a bit of retro. Also had dreams of building a steam punk editing system.

Bob.

kkolbo wrote on 10/14/2010, 5:29 AM

Now that would be cool. I will have to look into that idea.