going the way of acid sounds good and thats what i need but im concerned about the stabilty.
seems to be lots of negative feedback on the acid forum.

They're getting the bugs worked out as we speak. The transfer of SOME of the acid features to vegas should be stable as hell by then. From what myself and others at the V.A.S.T. tour could "guess" as to which will be carried over?...5.1,DX Automation,Buss Tracks,ASIO. No midi/OPT. I could be wrong though so don't flame the hell out of me! There might be some other audio enhancements so we'll have to wait till after the new year to see. Later.

lets get the buss fx pre fader, or at least an option for this

some real mono routing so you can mix on a console

input monitoring

fx envelops hide/show buttons ( like the pan and volume)

without a simple piano roll and support for vsti it will fall flat in my opinion.
im trying to stay hopefull.

I pushed hard for VSTi and MIDI in AP4 but the implementation has been very poor IMHO. In hindsight I think I'd have preferred better audio handling routines, something like a "super-chopper" and more effects etc. At the moment AP4 is doing a very poor job at what a lot of other apps do very well. Perhaps this is worth thinking about regarding Vegas . . .

to be honest, I've been very impressed with the capabilities and just how intuitive the piano roll / VSTi's are in ACID 4. Sure there's a few tweaks, but they'll come... hopefully in Vegas 4. I'd love to see those features - the audio side of Vegas is already incredible.

FX automation, hardware control, MIDI piano roll (OPT), VSTi's, Reverse Audio Switch, Rewire, ASIO driver support, Pre / Post Fader Switch on the Busses. Buss routing between busses (Allows you to for example send all your subgrouped EQ'd compressed drums to one buss and apply a global compressor)

That's the list of what I'm desperatley hoping for!

Oh and because the piano roll's OPT... a plugin that already exists in ACID 4, so that's less development work!

I beg Sonic Foundry to have a public beta stage so all us nuts can help figure out the bugs, and stop people slamming SF for a premature release.

What could be better?

"Buss routing between busses "...most of these routing functions will be useless unless they take care of the latency.

Why? What latency are you talking about?

Routing from one bus to another is effectively a zero latency issue - it has to be.

Peter

Straight bussing could be fine, but why use busses if you cant use plugins on the busses without introducing huge latency.

Nice for controlling volume of several tracks but thats it, right!?

Arnar,
Any digital processing will involve a delay of some amount. That's not SF's fault. How do you propose that plugins perform processing and not incur a delay?

Arnar is right
if you put part of your drums thru a buss and part of them thru another, and use fx on either, you DO come up with some nasty trouble. Plug in delay is a serious and long overdue issue. Hardware can have latency, but a NON linear system can know whats coming and make adjustments in time accordingly

Oh I get it...so the busses could all be delayed by an equal amount, perhaps by the amount of the buss with the highest latency, to avoid combing?

or delay the whole deal and NOT delay some as much...or something

I think I read hat VST plugs can report their timing or delay or some such, so that theres a way to ditch it.

This is still one of the audio basics that sf hasnt adressed.

I THINK I can understand them stubbornly sticking to their guns about some things, but True fader grouping, input monitoring, plug in delay, midi control for faders, mono output routing, are things that have to be looked into if this app will ever be taken seriously by people besides us core group of fanatics.

I know of only a few plugins that introduce latency, and this is because they implement the DShow plugin standard wrong. A correctly implemented DShow plugin should introduct ZERO latency.

If you have a specific example, I would be very interested.

Peter

I repeat. A DShow Plugin should NEVER introduce any delay. If they do, they are broken. Period.

We are aware that the Waves plugins once had this problem. We showed them exactly what they were doing wrong. When I recieved the update, it appeared that they had fixed the issue.

What plugins are you using that are causing this latency?

Peter

dont kill me, but ..... yours ...EQ a kick one one track and eq some overheads different on another and watch ( listen ) to what happens...flam city

also, you CANT tell me that sidechaining with any dx plug works...it happens totally at the wrong time

I read all these posts, and I can't understand why this does not happen to my system. I have no latency ( or at least not a noticeable one) in any of my sessions. Even on heavy sessions - 40 tracks, EQ's, comps, 3 delays, 3 verbs, etc.. - my system introduces no latency that I can hear.

We do TV and film music, all on Vegas, and I have never had a problem (fingers crossed) with latency.

I have never noticed this type of latency - i.e tracks moving out of sync due to processing times of plugins.

Doing a bit of research through the waves documentation, I came up with this:

Latency - Delay in Waves Linear Phase EQ

As noted, linear phase EQ makes constant delay for all the audio rather than different delay to different frequencies. This constant delay varies between plugin components and is listed here:

44khz
LinEQ Broadband = 2679 samples = 60.7 ms
LinEQ Lowband = 2047 samples = 46.4 ms

48khz
LinEQ Broadband = 2679 samples = 55.8 ms
LinEQ Lowband = 2047 samples = 42.6 ms

88khz
LinEQ Broadband = 5360 samples = 60.9 ms
LinEQ Lowband = 4095 samples = 46.5 ms

96khz
LinEQ Broadband = 5360 samples = 55.8 ms
LinEQ Lowband = 4095 samples = 42.6 ms

So, plugins do cause latency. But as I understand it, a correctly implemented Direct X plugin will be compensated for automatically in a correctly implemented Direct X host, such as Vegas.

I remember a long time ago, applying a directX effect to a wave file in Cool Edit Pro occasionally added a few ms to the beginning of the file. This only occurred with a few plugins, and I presume these are the incorrectly implemented plugins SonicPCH has mentioned. I think these were HyperPrism plugins. I don't use them nowadays.

Also, it's interesting to note that the Waves plugins only process an increased no. of samples when you jump up to 88khz. 48 or 96Khz theoretically reduce plugin latency on these particular plugs.

I can only guess at how the plugin latency is compensated for, but my theory is that the host is informed of the details by the plugin, and works out where to place the audio exactly in the mix.

What we hear played back is perfectly in time.

SonicPCH please correct me if I'm wrong, and even better, elaborate on how Vegas does this?

Also, Pipeline, I've never had the problems you mention could you send me a demo file / description of exactly what to do to replicate the problem?

Jason

My one major audio request in terms of routing would be the ability to route multiple busses to one buss. This would help with the way I mix. I.E. from 8 drum tracks, I would route overhead mics (L+R) to BUSS A. Oversnare and Undersnare to BUSS B, Kick to BUSS C, Toms to BUSS D. I can then EQ and compress things together to save time, instead of EQing and compressing top and bottom snare, left and right oveheads, and each tom separately. Also saves on CPU time because less plugins are used; so can use higher quality plugs. Now if I could route BUSSES A, B, C, and D to Buss E, then I could compress and touch up EQ on the whole drum submix, and have even more control. Buss E would then be routed to the master BUSS.

well heres an example

take a kick track and an overhead track...line up the peaks to compensate for any bit of phase or delay

now throw an eq on one track or another

itll be just like you hadnt lined the tracks up...now move the track, tho it doesnt show you the correct time where it is anymore, and you will find a point where they sound like theyre lined up again PLUS eq'd...I KNOW eq's introduce phase shift, but not by this much, sometimes the tracks will even flam

but better yet, and way worsde for me, try using a sidechain plug and listen to what really happens...not only do the meters in seemingly all plugs play at the wrong time, but in the sidechain plug it totally happens at the wrong time

the kick sidechained to bass guitar thing is hopeless this way

The Track EQ?

Peter