Makes perfect sense. No promises....

Peter

I would guess that it is a special case, I don't know.

The problem is that there would have to be a sync between the main "track/bus" and the side chained "track/bus". Vegas does not know about this required sync, so there is now way it can accomplish this.

Basically, when Vegas streams media, it sends samples into the FX and waits for samples to be returned. It buffers according the amount of latency. It EXPECTS that sample pos X input into an FX will be the first sample output. That is sample 1,2,3, ....->In sample 1,2,3,.....->Out.

For a side chain to work correctly the Vegas would have to know that this particular signal path must also pull from another signal path. The FX would also have to be designed to recieve either the side chain then the main stream - or the main stream then the side chain stream. There is no defined mechanism to accomplish this generically with DX plugins.

Peter

how about you make a proprietary one? maybe based on a plug called "control signal" or something. Was SAW able to do this sidechaining ?

A propriatry approach, or an extension to the DX featureset would be a good idea for sidechaining. An exentsion that other hosts can adopt may be an idea, as I expect more plugins would developed for such a system if it was adopted by many.

re: Peter

thanks for acknowledging buss routing the idea, it's great to see a company listen to their customers!

thanks :o)

<<<it's great to see a company listen to their customers>>>

Are you for real?

Joined this one late, maybe because of the vague topic. I personally haven't run into the problem of latency issues with plugins, that's probably because I hardly use Vegas for processing of FX's and mixing. I do most of that on external hardware. The first time I heard of plugin latency issues was this last weekend at AES at the Nuendo booth. This was hyped up by the Steinberg people as being one of their New features in Nuendo 2.0. They raved how every plugin/EQ/compressor will add a delay/latency due to the processing that is involved and that to overcome this, Nuendo adds up these delays and delays everything accordingly throughout the entire mix busses to ensure everything is 100% in phase.

So either Nuendo is selling a load of crap or even scarier, is that Sonic Foundry has never heard of this.

Are you sure it's not your machine? What's the specs on your PC?

I'm running a 2GHz Pentium machine with 1 GB RAM (WinXP)and I just spread out some drum tracks over 5 different busses, 4 with different plugins and one with no plugins, and there was no latency issues whatsoever.

Rob Solberg
Hypersound Music & Audio Design
www.hypersound.net

Its always been an issue for me, mixwise I am a drum fanatic. During recording I spend a LOT of time on the drums, lots of different mic techniques, till I find the one I want. I get them as close to in phase as possible, but when I get them into vegas, I can get that EXTRA bit, by aligning the peaks a little.

Now, if I use an EQ, or worse, a timeworks compressor x ( I can get flamed for this one, but it seems to be one of the few plugin compressors that will behave) all of a sudden the sound you HEAR is not at the same place as the waveform is drawn. It can even flam sometimes. I can send the tracks out to a console, and while you do hear tiny bits of phase shift with the analog EQ, it is NOTHING like the delay I get from enabling a plugin

again, something could have been wrong with every PC I ever ran vegas in but I dont know

also the nuendo plug in delay compensation formerly DIDNT work on busses LOL....maybe they have fixed that, but it makes for some odd trouble when part of your drumset is on one buss with an effect, and another part is on another buss without fx. You can imagine that when plugin delay is LONG enough for even the borg to admit, what must happen to your drums in that case

"also the nuendo plug in delay compensation formerly DIDNT work on busses LOL....maybe they have fixed that, but it makes for some odd trouble when part of your drumset is on one buss with an effect, and another part is on another buss without fx."

Actually Steinberg stated that fact in their demo, that NOW in the 2.0 version it is conpensated in the mixer and buss sections, and those familiar with the 1.0 versions may have ran into problems when routing to multiple busses and having an insert on 1 bus and not the other.

Looks like everyone is screaming for you to travel over to the dark side pipe and all the issues you are having will disappear???.....Use the force young jedi....have faith that Dave Obi Wan Kanobi Hill will come to your rescue and detroy all the evil temptations of the borg, and once again return balance in the Sonic Foundry empire.

there is NO WAY I will be using nuendo for studio work...we do have it and I enjoy playing my guitar thru amplitude with it and making goofy techno beats to solo over, but for serious work??? not me!!!

I dont see ANY functional UI difference between nuendo and cubase at least nuendo 1.51...it seems to me to be a midi sequencer UI with audio thrown in as an afterthought. Maybe the audio coding underneath is all great and all, but I cant acess it with THAT UI

the bad part tho, is PT...see, everyone around here will spend a GAZILLION dollars on PT not even questioning it, but try to get a TINY fraction of that cost to indulge my vegas fantasies, and some how its too much money

I hear ya, that's why I became a Vegas user. I spent 2 months trying out all the rest of the options (Cubase,Saw,Logic Audio, Samplitude,Cool Edit pro,Dart, Cakewalk,Protools and Vegas Pro) before deciding on Vegas. Editing and routing is my most important feature and Vegas was the best and most intuitive....and I didn't have to keep switching between tools just to do simple split and moving to other tracks, and crossfading and trimming edges. Then on top of that, anything I wanted to do to an individual event or track was just a right click away. I didn't have to search for it in a menu item or open up 3 seperate windows just to route a track to a seperate audio out. All the other programs, have all the bells and whistles, but if I can't be effencient enough to get the editing and recording part done, they become secondary. I was able to overcome the effect automation, grouping, surround mixing, by linking it up to a digital mixer that accepted MTC and all my needs where met. Although, I'm not saying having these all within Vegas is not a good thing, because it's nice to have that option and is needed to keep the program appealing to everyone.

Whenever I mix on a console from vegas I run into a BIG problem:
In order to send each track out it must be panned hard left for odda and hard right for evens. Once I do that, if I DO want to use internal dx fx, the send ONLY goes to that side of the effect, and ruins it for a lot of things. Also if I use an effect on a buss that Im using for an output, whatever is on the OTHER side of that buss ALSO effects that effect, so I gotta not use it

I have a Eventide DSP4000, a TC M5000, 2 DBX Blue 160 SL's, 2 LA-2A's, tons of good mic pres and EQ's, lots of other lesser FX, and general shenanigan devices...I take crap all the time not using the stuff...Believe me I'd LOVE to use them more often, but just cant get past the routing issues..I hope sf either makes a plug called " mono to stereo " or something, or better yet, makes some sensible way to route outside...all this gear sits and ROTS mixwise

but I still think even internally, I have gotten better mixes in vegas *overall* because of the control, than I ever did when I had an SSLG4000 and studer 827's and sony PCM 3348's at my disposal...

control control control...if I use cubendo, I loose all the benefits of real world gear, while at the same time loosing the control of vegas...a no win situation for me

will there ever be a day where we can just patch in a piece of outboard gear in realtime sensibly?

<<Whenever I mix on a console from vegas I run into a BIG problem:
In order to send each track out it must be panned hard left for odda and hard right for evens. Once I do that, if I DO want to use internal dx fx, the send ONLY goes to that side of the effect, and ruins it for a lot of things. Also if I use an effect on a buss that Im using for an output, whatever is on the OTHER side of that buss ALSO effects that effect, so I gotta not use it>>

Yes I agree! Since I use an outboard mixer (and will continue to do so for the forseeable future because I love the outboard gear), this issue is definitely my #1 complaint with Vegas. Any other criticisms or annoyances are extremely minor compared to this! Hope SOFO is listening. ;-)

drbam

..with ANY DX plugs, except Acoustic mirror, and that is well documented.

Just call it "Vegas" (no 'Audio') and get OMF export and all is well.