clip1, clip10, clip11, clip12,...clip19, clip2, clip20, clip21


That kind of sort order. Solution is to name it clip001, clip002, etc.

Outdated is in the eye of the beholder. If I pipe that list into word or excel it sorts funny as well. The best practice is to use more digits in the numbers as in the "solution" above.

Rob Mack

yeah, I do know how to use leading zeros, but thanks ;)

PowerPoint exports slides as Slide1, Slide2, Slide3, etc...

I don't have much choice in whether to use PowerPoint or not. That's what the majority of corporations use.

I say out-dated because Microsoft fixed this problem in Windows Explorer years ago. Why would anyone want Slide10 to come before Slide5 in a file list??!?

Oh. Ok.

It's not "outdated." It's correct. It's doing it how it is susposed to (which is built into all programming languages I've used). What's the correct order (not sequence) for thse numbers?:
7,8,9,10,11,12

The CORRECT order is 10,11,12,7,8,9 (logicly)

You were probley thinking 7,8,9,10,11,12, but you'd be wrong, logicly. Why?

1 comes before 7, so 10,11, & 12 would come before the 7,8,9. But, since 0 comes before 1, 07,08,09 would come before 10,11,12. Same reason you would put as, at, ask in their order. a would obiviously be the same in the 3 words, so that doesn't mater. Next letter. the s & t. s comes before t, so the order would be as. ask, at. But wait... since there is no letter after the s in as, how do we know that ask doesn't come before it? Couldn't it be ask as at? Nope. We are tought from childhood that if a word starts with the same letters (in this case as), we place words with more letters after the same letters at the end (as then ask). We're tought to treat numbers differently, but computers don't really give a hoot. If we treated numbers the same way as letters, then we would be tought in gradeschool to use leading 0's.

Since computers aren't us (and hence aren't tought how to order stuff our way, just programmed to do thing in the easiest/cheapest/fastest way for the programmer)) they look at everything logicly. And, it would be MS powerpoint that has the error, NOT Vegas or anything else that does it the "old" way. It's a flaw in their program (what else is new!).

MS never changed this in any of their software eighter (for sorting). You may b sorting by date (then since slide5 was created before slide10 it would be first) Explore still does it the "correct" way. So does their current version of DOS. Infact, I just made 3 folders: steveiscool 1, steveiscool2, & steveiscool11. The order they appear in is (in explore) steveiscool1, steveiscool11, & steveiscool2. the DOS window lists the same thing (infact, it sorts by the long filenames, NOT the short 8 letter filenames it gives, which could make stuff more confusing).

Here's what I'd recomend (and what I do when I have to import image sequences improperly labeled).

Select 1-9. Import those. Next, 10-99. Next 100-999... etc. Remember, you can hold the CTRL key when clicking the left mouse button to select multiple files.

You know what? E-mail MS tech support (or check out they crappy forums) and ask about the lack of a leading zero. It's wierd that they still do it incorrectly (unlesss you have an old version of power point). If MS added a routing or two that checked how the numbers were organized it woul "fix" this. But, they have enough bugs to squash.

sorry for the long post cheese. I don't doubt you know what you're doing, but for a minute or so my former programmer self came out. :)

I can assure with complete confidence that XP's Explorer lists numerical files in the correct order. I'm not using XP anymore, I'm using Win2k3 (which also does it right), but this was one of the first things I noticed about XP after the wacko Luna crap! ;D This feature has saved me on numerous (heheh) occasions by cutting my workload in half. It allows me to drop 100s of numerical image files into Vegas and have them in perfect numerical order on the time line with one drag operation. In Win2k and earlier, it would have taken dozens of drag / drop operations.

Anyone with XP or higher, just create a few text files in a folder and name then File1.txt File5.txt File10.txt - Sort by name and you'll see they are listed in the correct numerical., human, order.

Since computers aren't us (and hence aren't tought how to order stuff our way, just programmed to do thing in the easiest/cheapest/fastest way for the programmer))

Well we have very different philosophies as to what the purpose of an interface is. Maybe I'm more sensitive to this because I am an interface designer/developer, but to me it is obvious that the job of an interface is to do work for us - to "think" for us as much as possible. If you were correct about programs doing things the easiest way for the programmer, we'd be looking at 1's and 0's right now and not nicely formatted text.

By the way this isn't the first time I've seen this issue come up. In the ACDSee forum there is a thread on this very topic.

Infact, I just made 3 folders: steveiscool 1, steveiscool2, & steveiscool11. The order they appear in is (in explore) steveiscool1, steveiscool11, & steveiscool2.

Well I believe you but there must be an option somewhere. My default XP installation lists files in numerical order if they are numerically named. Same with Win2k3. I haven't seen Explorer list file11 before file2 since Windows 2000.

I can see this becoming a problem when vegas video will be able to import and export .flm PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE in the next release.

I don't want to say it's right or wrong. I was thinking of how word or excel would order the numbers.

While it's an inconvenience to have to write things with leading zeros, usually it's more of an inconvenience not to use the zeros. It's too bad that Powerpoint names things this way but it's probably only 9 images to rename.

I'd rename them rather than cursing at software. BTW, there are a variety of useful shareware apps over at NoNags.com.

Rob

>I'd rename them rather than cursing at software

Who's cursing? Didn't mean to come across that way. I just don't like to do monkey work. You say 9 files to rename, but that's only if the PPT is less than 100 slides and there is only one PPT. (My current project has 25+)

Okay so I can find a freeware program (thanks for the link btw) or just use Explorer - and that's a-ok cuz it's just as easy - but Vegas's strength is its tight integration with Windows. It behaves like the "ideal" MS Windows application. It's just surprising to me that after Microsoft implemented "intelligent" file sorting Vegas didn't follow.

Yeah, I was carefully avoiding the over 100 file scenario. Shudder.

And cursing? I was projecting there. Sorry. I'd be cursing. Why aren't you cursing? Get with it! Curse! Oh, sorry. Carried away there.

In 4.0 I thought the Vegas explorer was bad enough that I never used it. For some reason it seems more appealing with V5 but I don't know why.

I maintain part of a tech website with about 10k pages or so. I use a few freeware programs to rename batches of files, search and replace code across my corner of the site, Touch files to change the date, compress html, extract directory listings, etc. It's worth the time to hunt things down sometimes.

Rob

Yeah, I have Win2k. I haven't done a file list test in XP (all files i've used in XP have had leading zeros). Actuatly, this seems like a "good" thing but it might actuatly be really stupid! All programs do it the "correct" way not hte "human" way, so even if they are listed "properly" they will still be imported properly!

I never knew Microsoft was the one who decided what the defination of "order" meant. :)

Hey cheese, could you try something for me? You said that XP lists numerical files how we think they should be listed (ie 9 before 10). Do all programs register this (import into Vegas correctly) or is it just a "looks" thing? Could you import your powerpoint slided in Vegas all at once or do you still have to import them parts at a time?

If the Vegas team knew about this and they didn't put it in there's a very good reason. When you're importing a lot of files (say 1000 sequential files), you click on the first one & it will let you check the checkbox that lets you import the sequence (0001..1000). But, if you had to deal with no leading 0's, then Vegas would have to sit there & look at EVERY filename, and sort it. For a little while it's no big deal, but then when you get into a lot of frames (90 minutes & 24fps would be 129,600 frames) it would take a little time to sort that list (many CASE statements & such).

Also, is it possible to change that listing feature? That would drive me nuts. :)

Some programs have it and some don't - and some have a mixture of both. Photoshop lists the files in numerical order in its Open dialog, but in alphabetical in its Image Browser. I'm sure there's a way to turn it off, but you'll have to search maybe annoyances.org...

So for all those times I have to import 90 minutes of 24 fps video from 129,600 individual image files... I guess I should be glad I don't have to wait longer. :)

I just got my hands on an XP laptop at work. At I made three folders: steve1, steve9, steve11. I listed them in Explore. They were listed in the order steve1, steve9, steve11.
Then I listed them in DOS. They were steve1, steve11, steve9. :(

So. the reason it's not working in all programs is that it's a GUI/UI change only, not a change in the way Windows works. So, if MS changes it throughout the whole program, then it will work that way in everything. :)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Microsoft is just making things pretty. Their ordering is wrong.

It's not the first time their Explorer beatification projects have caused problems. But it looks good for secretaries.

Rob Mack

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Microsoft is just making things pretty. Their ordering is wrong.

Actually it's more than a looks thing. It allows you to drop a folder full of files onto the Vegas time line with one click/drag operation. Call it what you want, but my clients like Slide 10 to come after Slide 9. I can't think of any reason I would want to drop numerical files on the time line in non-numerical order.

It's not the first time their Explorer beatification projects have caused problems. But it looks good for secretaries

Secretaries, media developers, digital photographers...

I think once you have it, it's one of those things you realize should have been that way all along. It seems like no one even noticed until I pointed it out. Seriously, if you were looking at a list of 100 files in numerical order would you really click the "Resort Alphabetically" button - so Slide 5 is half way through the list and slide 100 is the 3rd file in the list?

Having read almost all these preceding posts now, I'll say I have to agree with you Cheeshole.
Through time, I developped this "reflex" of naming all my files considering this fact that's explained above.
When I'd download pictures from my still cam, I'd name them by date in this order to get through these after: year-month-day. So I'd get 03-12-31(+pic.001.jpg), 04-01-01(+pic.001.jpg), 04-01-01 (+pic.002.jpg) etc... on this new year's eve party for example...
And I'm with you: computers have to conform to us, certainly NOT vice versa!
But then, I'll have to get rid of these "reflexes" I developped through time to re-conform to a new / corrected reality... haha!

Sadly, I think we'll be stuck using tricks like that for a long time (leading zeros - formatting the date bass ackwards - btw I do the same exact thing!). Interface design is still at sub-human levels everywhere! Personally, I intend to help change that. I've often wondered how things get done so badly... like the cliche about being able to program your VCR. It isn't because people are dumb - it's because the interfaces were incredibly stupid. They were obviously designed by engineers - probably for testing purposes - definitely not by interface designers. ;)

If Windows Explorer can list the files in the order you want, then why not drag them to the timeline from Windows Explorer?

JL

PowerPoint exports slides as Slide1, Slide2, Slide3, etc...

which is why I wrote a little VBA macro for use in powerpoint that allows you to export slides at any specified pixel dimensions and with the extra digits to make it sort properly.

Download the Powerpoint Image Exporter

Wow excellent work Liam! This is the best PPT exporter I've used - the image quality is slightly better than I've been getting from PPT 2000's TIFF exporter (now, the second best exporter).

Unfortunately the GIF output (my destination format) is unusable due to strange dither patterns, but that's the way it's always been with GIF output from PowerPoint. Your PNG export looks flawless and I will batch process them to GIFs using Fireworks or Photoshop.

Now I tackle the next problem! Thanks Liam for giving the world a better PowerPoint exporter. A lot of people will want to get hold of this as I'm sure you know :D

Glad you found it useful. The code is not the best around but for my purposes it works ok. I am actually using the internal functions within powerpoint that are exposed to VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) so what I am doing is really pretty basic.

Anyone can dip into the code and make it better. This is one of my little projects that I have "donated" into the public domain so anyone can do anything with it.

[edit]
Hmm.. I wonder if these functions are "exposed" to the .Net framework? If so... then one of the Vegas script gurus could probably create a script that would bring the slides direct into the vegas time-line.

You know, we can personly blame bill gates for getting it "wrong" in the first place. He made DOS. DOS did it where you need leading zero's. They just changed that in 2002. :) Ironicly, he didn't change it, just made it look different. Kinda like Windows 95. :)

It's right up there with the whole double digit date thing (00 vs 2000). They say it was for memory/speed (i'm sure it was a simular excuse the the ordering thing). Yet, they continue doing it until there is a major problem!

Personly, I prefer my leading zero's. It make sence mathmeticly (the ASCII code for 1 is 0031 (in arail since that's what I have up now). So, the number 11 would be code 00310031. 2 would be 0032. Now which comes first: 00310031 or 0032 (going from left to right since that's what computers do!).