Comments

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 5:31 AM

The playhead actually shows the upcoming frame, not the previous. Something's wrong in your project. There's either a framerate mismatch or your project does not quantize to frames.

Jack S wrote on 8/4/2020, 5:40 AM

Works as it should for me.

I'll scour my preferences to see if I can spot something but as far as I know, I haven't changed anything from default that could cause your problem.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 5:47 AM

The playhead actually shows the upcoming frame, not the previous. Something's wrong in your project. There's either a framerate mismatch or your project does not quantize to frames.

If I turn on Quantize to Frame, it works as you say, but there are other editing problems.

I can only move events by Frames. Not freely.
This sometimes creates gaps between the cuts, or the cuts are inaccurate.
I automatically turn off the Quantize To Frame feature every time I install Vegas, because it limits me.



Pardon.

Other suggestions please.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 5:57 AM

Turning off Quantize to Frames for video editing makes no sense! It is meant for audio editing only. Gaps between video events won't disappear and cuts are not more accurate just by turning off Quantize to Frames, it's cosmetic because it only affects the timeline view but not the real processing. It would be the same as moving or cutting the event far enough with Quantize to Frames turned on.

A video time grid is defined by integer values of full frames (or at least fields). You can't overcome this very basic definition. Real issues may appear if you still try to. I'd wish that option would be taken out from the Options menu as it confuses editors since decades.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 6:13 AM

Thanks for your feedback.
Quite often I edit conversations and comments, and with the Quantize to Frames feature turned on, I can't cut and connect the speech exactly as I need it. It just bothers me at work. That's why I'll always have it turned off, even if you don't agree with it!

So I will specify the question .....
Is it possible to display the following events even when Quantize to Frame is turned off?

Thanks.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 6:19 AM

It's not a matter of opinion here. It is video basics and the issue you mentioned in your first post is right the outcome of a false use of quantizing. It happens because the playhead is not exactly on the first frame of the upcoming event (right in between the two events) but unquantized a few milliseconds before (so actually it's on the event before the one you expect to see). So what you ask for is to see a frame which is not the one the cursor actually is on and not the one which is processed at that time. And the answer is: No, it's not possible for a good reason.

To be able to edit audio precisely within video production (which I also do very often to cut interviews precisely) there's a particular option in Options/Preferences/Editing.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 6:36 AM

Sorry I disagree.
When quantization is off, the head ALWAYS displays previous events.
When qantisation is turned on, it ALWAYS displays the following event.

I find it easy to adjust this internally so that the game head behaves the same.

john_dennis wrote on 8/4/2020, 6:48 AM

@pierre-k

If you want sub-frame accuracy for your audio cuts:

  • Turn off Auto Ripple
  • After cutting the video and audio on the frame boundary, hold the Shift key while moving just the audio

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 6:58 AM

@pierre-k

If you want sub-frame accuracy for your audio cuts:

  • Turn off Auto Ripple
  • After cutting the video and audio on the frame boundary, hold the Shift key while moving just the audio

I understand.
For the audio itself the great procedure.
But if you have an interview on camera and you need precise sound editing (exact connection of sentences), then quantization is a problem for me.
I really don't know how else to work.

I have a 25fps project and the jumps on frames are too big for an interview. For some actors, I have to cut a lot and accurately.
The solution would be to set the project to 50fps to have more freedom.
A render 25fps.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 7:09 AM

Just enable "Do not quantize to frames for audio only editing" in Options/Preferences/Editing.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 7:19 AM

Just enable "Do not quantize to frames for audio only editing" in Options/Preferences/Editing.

I'm sorry but you probably don't understand me.

Yes, this feature is great, but if you have synchronous picture and sound, it's useless. I need an accurate cut with video.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 7:31 AM

I've gotten so used to deactivated quantization over the years that I'm struggling now. But I'll get used to it. I have to.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 9:33 AM

I fully understand but it seems you still didn't get the point that video just doesn't work that way even if the event container on the timeline makes us think that way. Moving or cutting a video event container in a fraction of a frame just does nothing at all to your video. So if you like it or not you would need to adopt your workflow. It's not a Vegas Pro thingy, it's the world of video and audio – and combining these different pairs of shoes of video and audio.

What you need to do is to extend or shorten your audio event separated from the video event in cases you need precise audio editing. That's how it works in every NLE which offers audio editing beyond the frame limits. And even if you would move your audio event some milliseconds it would do no (big) harm to synchronization as each single meter you're away from yours speakers delays the audio by 3 milliseconds.

rraud wrote on 8/4/2020, 9:44 AM

The OP could have one of the "Snap to" options enabled, which can hinder precise edits.

relaxvideo wrote on 8/4/2020, 10:11 AM

Ouch, video editing with quantization off?

Sorry, pierre-k, i thinked we all know the basics here, and this could be a question only from the noobs :)

I always cut my video first and IF audio track need more precise editing i use "ignore event grouping" with my hotkey "Q", and i can edit my audio as freely as i want! A little fade in/out when needed. I made many films and never had a problem with this method since Vegas 7...

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 10:19 AM

Ouch, video editing with quantization off.

try it too. and see how liberating it is.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 10:23 AM

"try it too. and see how liberating it is."

… because it does nothing to the video until it hits the frame border again which then would be same as having it turned on!?

… or because it then moves the playhead in a way that makes no sense but trouble for video!?

What you call "liberating" is confusing for others, at least. For video editing it's a blinding option. It is as if your navigator says "You have reached your destination" while you still have a mile to go.

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 11:35 AM

At least I see one and a half case where turning off the global option instead of using the audio-only-dedicated option makes sense, though in the end this is for the audio editing only again:

You need this global option if you need to place the cursor more precisely than in frame steps and then maybe place a marker beyond the frame grid. Both again makes no sense at all for video editing but for audio editing only. But it cannot be achieved by that audio-only-dedicated option in Options/Preferences/Editing. And again, it is important to switch back to quantize to frames being turned on if you go on editing the video.

Still looking for a way to only let the cursor and marker positioning bypass the frame quantizing for a single process (without touching the global option) so a confusion like mentioned in this first post would not occur.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 12:12 PM

Yes. The problem with the playhead is the only one.
Otherwise, my way of editing is literally revolutionary and ingenious!

Other people use "Shift" "Q". Other people temporarily turn off sync. Others first cut in Trimer. I don't know. I don't have to do such things. I cut everything in a timeline without restrictions. Yes, I know ...... the playhead shows the past. Detail.

and now seriously!

(I'm sorry I don't speak English now. I believe the Google translator understands what I mean)

Dear Marco.
Fifteen years ago, when I started discovering the secrets of video editing, the first Sony Vegas software (perhaps unfortunately) I discovered and learned in it. Nobody helped me, nobody taught me. Video tutorials did not exist and I did not speak English. I did not study bionuclear physics or metaphysical mathematics. I am a trained locksmith and where I am now, I have worked hard with my own diligence and effort. Without the help of others. Thanks to that, my current profession is - a professional video editor.

I really apologize to you, but to this day I had no idea that editing with quantization turned off is a crime in your eyes! And nowhere have I read that such conduct is inappropriate. I was convinced that there were different rules in the digital world than in analog editing. And since I've been working like this for 15 years, it probably won't be a big deal. Or?

When I started editing years ago, I was very annoyed that Vegas was forcing me to cut where I didn't want to, and the movement of events was jumping, not smooth. I found that turning off quantization solved my problem. To this day, I have not dealt with it and I have not been interested in it.

The slogan of Vegas is - you can get to your destination in different ways. It's up to you which path you choose. So I chose and I do not regret it!

You're collapsing now and don't understand how I can afford to turn off quantization.
My answer is ....... why not?

I don't understand why some of you refer to others as "noob". One learns all one's life, and I believe that some people may understand quantization perfectly. I perfectly understand something else where others fail. Please let us respect each other's working practices. We are not on the Avid Forum!

Thank you!

PS: And now, after 15 years of quantitative freedom, I will now suffer greatly!
You ruined my idea of ​​a perfect world, Marco. (joke)

adis-a3097 wrote on 8/4/2020, 2:32 PM

pierre-k,

what you don't seem to understand is that Vegas is not forcing you to cut where you don't want. Video comes "pre-cut" as such, because it's what video actually is - it's cut 24 times a second. And recorded. You know the FPS number? Well, that's where your "framerate" comes from. Audio also is pre-cut. Some 48.000 times a second. That one's called "samplerate". You can go higher or lower, but there's always a samplerate in digital audio. And framerate in video.

Think there's something between two adjecent frames? There is! It's the same thing that's between sunday and monday, namely - nothig - a.k.a. delusion. Don't fall for it! :)

Marco. wrote on 8/4/2020, 2:53 PM

Pierre, I don't wanna stop you from turning quantizing off for video editing. I just want to make clear it is kind of a no-go to use that feature in a way it is not intended to be used and then to complain about things happening which simply must happen. It is like using green color for painting and then complaining it is not red.

pierre-k wrote on 8/4/2020, 3:01 PM

Marco thanks for your time. I already understand that. I had it turned off mainly for cutting conversations.

Guys, give me time to learn to live with this. :-))

adimatis wrote on 8/4/2020, 3:32 PM

:) There was a time when scientists believed the atom was the smallest thing!