Vegas + BCC7: 3D container possible?

vtxrocketeer wrote on 7/6/2011, 6:36 AM
I'm using BCC7's extruded EPS to animate a number of 3D objects: some vector art from Illustrator and some text within BCC7 itself. All of these objects are in close proximity and they form a composite object, if you will, and so they have to be lit similarly and behave as one. (I had to extrude these separately; hence, I had to create separate objects.)

I'm using camera moves to navigate around/through the composite object, but here is my dilemma: each object is a separate BCC event on the Vegas timeline, so I have to tediously and carefully adjust camera move settings on each object so that no object appears to 'drift' away or 'collide' with one of its neighbors. What I'd love to have is what I think is called a 3D container that would hold all objects to their relative positions, so that I can just animate the camera (or the 3D container), fix lighting just once for all objects, etc. Make sense?

Yet, I can't figure out how to do this with BCC7 or native Vegas tools. It appears that Boris Red has a 3D container, but I don't have Boris Red. Any ideas here?



Rory Cooper wrote on 7/7/2011, 2:03 AM
Steve you can create a 3d parent container in Vegas and dump your Vegas tracks into that container THIS WILL HOLD EVERYTHING INTO POSITION the problem then is Vegas will treat all these tracks as 2D objects in 3d space so any lateral movement or turns will flatten the 3d extrusions. The only way to succeed is place all your extrusions into one BCC track in Vegas.

When BCC first came out I tried a 5 object circle pan with each object on their own BCC track in a Vegas 3d container, Vegas did recognize the 3d space between all the 3d objects in the container but did NOT recognize the movement of the independent tracks in relation to each other. The only solution is to composite the entire thing in Red
On an empty event track in Vegas this way all elements have the correct time and space attributes
vtxrocketeer wrote on 7/7/2011, 5:11 AM
Thanks, Rory. After tinkering the last few days, coincidentally doing exactly what you did, I came to the same conclusion, assuming I wasn't missing something. For instance, the 3D track motion in Vegas *seemed* to do what I wanted until I rotated objects out of plane: they were horribly flattened. Yech.

Also, I don't think that the Vegas 3D container would preserve perspective (or parallax) between and within objects as they approach or go away from the camera. In my case, for instance, I'm 'flying' through a multi-object logo that I created in Illustrator. Moving the all the logo objects together in Z space using Vegas' 3D container looks OK at far distances. Any rotations in X or Y or trying to achieve the fly through effect were impossible or ugly in my hands.

Now I'm evaluating a trial of Red: wow, what a powerful tool. There, it's possible to achieve what I want (and a lot more than BCC7)...for a price.
Rory Cooper wrote on 7/8/2011, 12:27 AM
I Have been using RED for a few years in Vegas for logos and extrusions it works great , never had a problem, this is more suited for what you are doing.

Some tips for RED logo extrusion
When you generate the logo in PS save it as a TIFF for Red use this for the extrusion = window = vector trace pallet = select alpha = then trace
For your control window = textures surface = select TIFF = SELECT map = stretch = bang all fits one shot = deselect alpha to opacity for background texture.

On that TIFF you can add BCC Bump map select the same TIFF for bump this will give you extra edge detail for fine detail etc to give a routed effect

I have just up graded to RED 5 AND STILL CHECKING IT OUT……can’t split the workspace to multiple screens????
JohnnyRoy wrote on 7/8/2011, 4:35 AM
I agree RED is the only way to get a true 3D container. Maybe you could contact Boris FX and work out an upgrade deal? The upgrade for RED from a previous version is $ 295.00. Maybe they can work out a cross-grade price from BCC7 that is similar? It's worth a shot to ask.

Rory Cooper wrote on 7/8/2011, 5:17 AM
This is a quick example with something I am working on

Image workflow from red at end with workf. vegas image as well

Johnny do you know how to split the work screen on RED 5 to multiscreen
vtxrocketeer wrote on 7/8/2011, 9:53 AM
Excellent guys. Thanks. I played with my Red trial last night for hours and was blown away at how easy I could do (mostly) what I pictured in my mind. The 3D container track is perfect.

So far I've been exporting Adobe Illustrator files to Red. Hence, no need for the bitmap-->vector conversion with the PS workflow you outlined, Rory. (Accordingly, I can always work with resolution independent objects within Red.) I have a ton of Digital Juice textures and was stunned to see what Red can do with them, particular with the Bump Map turned on.

What I ran into with Red is this: extrusion is nice, but the extruded surface always is at right angles to the object that is extruded; obviously, since an object is being extruded like in those old Playdough machines. I discovered that I sometimes want to create complex extrusions, so to speak, i.e., angled extrusions. What happened is that I just stumbled upon my need to create 3D models, not simple extrusions. Red doesn't import 3D models as such (i.e., .obj or .3ds files). Blue does. Gads -- I thought I was wading into this and suddenly I'm up to my neck.

Rory: thanks for posting the video and workflow! I like the logo and treatment.

JR, thanks for the tip about the cross grade. I had exactly the same thought and will call BorisFX to see what might be in the offing.

Laurence wrote on 7/8/2011, 4:08 PM
Is this the sort of thing that the upcoming VASST product "Scattershot" will help with if one wants to do this from within Vegas?