Vegas Pro 12 editor teaming with FCP editor?

musicvid10 wrote on 9/17/2013, 11:34 PM

Avid DNxHD

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 12:44 AM

I tried that first. It was easy on my end with John Rofrano's webpage http://johnrofrano.com/training/video-tutorials/avid-dnxhd-template-for-vegas-pro/ ..I sent her a sample converted DNxHD file and a copy of the Codec for her Mac .. she said it would not run. I have no experience with DNxHD .. will it run with any MAC OS version and all FCP versions? Can I point her to some Apple webpage that says DNxHD will run on FCP ? I'm not sure she actually loaded the Codec .. it's possible she is in denial that an AVID codec will run in FCP.

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 9/18/2013, 3:14 AM

XDCam are supposed to be files that go between, I have not tested, but if this is your first time on a project with more than one editor, make sure you have a clearly defined look and feel. I've been lead editor on a tv show for the last year, and we had an editor that is not with us after this show due to her lack of ability to work on a team and submit content for review in time. That mad effort more than a few late nights :(

Jedman wrote on 9/18/2013, 5:47 AM

Doesn't seem to be a problem-
http://www.lafcpug.org/phorum/read.php?1,233235,233249
and
http://community.avid.com/forums/p/94385/539198.aspx

Consensus seems to be the same, install codecs and you are good.

Not to speak ill of anyone.... But the FCP people I have dealt with in the past really do seem to live in a shell and you have to spoon feed them anything outside their comfort zone.
Good luck.

PS. Beware the Windows - Mac Gamma shift

set wrote on 9/18/2013, 6:20 AM

Xberk,

Support additional info mentioned by Jedman, about Gamma Shift:
Check this out: http://www.eoshd.com/content/8612/mac-avchd-gamma-issues-the-fix

Set

Laurence wrote on 9/18/2013, 8:56 AM

Another bit of knowledge that might be helpful. If you format a work drive from a Windows machine as exFAT, you can use that drive on both Windows and Mac machines with no file size limitation. This is how I format all my external drives.

musicvid10 wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:02 AM

The Avid 2.3.8 codecs must be installed on both machines first.
Sorry your Mac editor did not realize that. They do not come preinstalled.
Of course, if she is going to be a problem child, it is never going to work.
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/Avid-QuickTime-Codecs-LE-2-3-8

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:11 AM

Thanks everyone. I still have yet to find an Apple community forum or webpage that describes using the DNxHD codec with FCP.

Has anyone used ClipWrap to rewrap the AVCHD MTS files to ProRes422 ? .. Apparently this $50 software will run on the Mac and give that editor true ProRes422 files to work with in FCP.

musicvid10 wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:29 AM

"I still have yet to find an Apple community forum or webpage that describes using the DNxHD codec with FCP. "
That's because DNxHD is not an Apple product. They and Avid are competitors.

I don't know what ClipWare is?
ClipWrap must encode AVCHD or HDV to ProRes 422. So there's an extra generation each time. Plus all the levels/gamma issues you may have to deal with, since your whiny editor won't have any idea.

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:32 AM

Sorry. ClipWrap .. not Clipware .. Good grief I'm slipping. ClipWrap "rewraps" the files .. suppose to be loseless. http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap

John Rofrano mentioned the gamma shift too as one of the reasons to use DNxHD. Hopefully that issue will be recognized on the FCP end of things quickly,

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:37 AM

I'll go back to the FCP editor today. You all have given me a bit more confidence. I need to find out if she actually installed the DNxHD codec. I'll get the specs on her Mac too ..

I'll check too on how she is viewing footage so far as the drive she is using came from me and its formatted NTSF. . I've never used exFAT but I suppose easy enough to format to that from Windows 8, right?

musicvid10 wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:39 AM

ProRes 422 is a proprietary codec, not a wrapper. The 4CC is "apch" and "apcn."
Clipwrap's website is pretty reckless with the word "rewrap." There has to be a conversion in the case of HDV or AVCHD to ProRes 422. I'm sure you understand this would need to be done with each handoff.

"John Rofrano mentioned the gamma shift too as one of the reasons to use DNxHD. Hopefully that issue will be recognized on the FCP end of things quickly,
It won't be, and you will end up being the person to deal with it, every time. Why ask for the headaches?

Maybe you just need another body sitting at the Mac? I mean, if there's this much resistance now, what's it going to be like when there's a real problem?

set wrote on 9/18/2013, 9:49 AM

http://www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap

When I was experiment with FCPX probably 2 years ago, this is the only solution available (but I finally unable to handle FCPX) for avchd.

That time, I try only rewrap with changing to intermediate file, yes, it is faster, but in the end, when I imported into it, there is a background task converting to Prores format...
It is a good idea to do it while changing the wrap.

So quick for additional posts...
Read somewhere that..., Although Prores is Proprietary, someone is trying to develop an opensource version for Prores encoding...

ddm wrote on 9/18/2013, 1:25 PM

DNxHD works flawlessly in FCP (any version), but you MUST install the Avid codec on the mac, PERIOD. Can't be much simpler, either. As Musicvid said, if she's going to be a problem child then there's nothing you can do about that and you might as well walk away, but installing an Industry standard codec on her precious laptop should be a non-issue.

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 3:13 PM

ddm and Musicvid .. I fully agree. THe FCP editor and I are about 60 miles apart physically. We've agreed to meet up on Sunday. I'll drive down to her place. Hopefully we'll see what's what at that point with using the DNxHD. You guys are all giving me more confidence in the DNxHD workflow.

What gives me pause is something like this that I picked up on the Creative Cow FCP forum from May 2013 .. " ... I have a 1080p24 video rendered out with the Avid DNxHD codec on a PC using Premiere. When I bring it over onto my Mac workstation that has FCP 6.0.6 and drag it onto a timeline the preview pane is just red with "Codec could not be opened".

I've successfully installed the Avid codecs and restarted the system so I'm not sure why it still won't load the file properly. The Avid codecs don't show up in the FCP presets but I've checked that all the files are in /Library/QuickTime. Any help please? ... "

From what I could tell. No help was forthcoming on Creative Cow that resolved the issue despite many attempts to find the system flaw. As you all know, we get into similar issues with Vegas. Something could be up with this editor's system that makes it appear that DNxHD will not run in FCP. We never had these issues with film editing.

markymarkNY wrote on 9/18/2013, 3:27 PM

There's a free script called WInRewrap, which will batch re-wrap AVCHD mts files into quicktime compatible .mov files. They use the same H.264 codec so a rewrap preserves all the data. Vegas on Windows should work fine with .mov

Gene Aum wrote on 9/18/2013, 3:50 PM

Here's a video container changer that I bumped into recently that works extremely well:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Video-Container-Changer

Steve

Jedman wrote on 9/18/2013, 4:14 PM

Every year I do an Eisteddfod that requires me to churn out about 3-400 individual DVDs, the fastest way I found to do it, for various reasons, was FCX. I shoot with a Z5 so had to rewrap.

I tried a few of the free rewrapping tools along with an earlier version of Clipwrap installed on a friends laptop.
Bottom line is I had various issues audio sync, clip length changing, color shifts etc. I dont know all the tech, but it appears the lesser softwares change duration of the clip and/or stretch the audio in the .mov container.

Bad news if you are sharing files :(

See here-
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/final-cut-pro-x/516048-hdv-audio-issue.html

After a few days of messing about I made the $50 Clipwrap investment and never looked back. Great software.

Again.... Good luck

ddm wrote on 9/18/2013, 5:50 PM

I would suggest bringing the Avid DNxHD installation program with you, I think the latest version is 2.3.9 LE. It has an installation routine that gives you an "installed successfully" window at the end. It does not create FCP templates, however. Easiest way to set up a new project is to import a dnxhd mov file into the project bin and drag it to the timeline and answer yes to changing the sequence to match the imported footage. (has to be a new project) Thats for FCP 7, FCPX works the same way, I think, but you don't have all the Easy setups like FCP 7 had.

ushere wrote on 9/18/2013, 6:44 PM

+101

pretty sure they come from walled gardens as well ;-(

xberk wrote on 9/18/2013, 11:34 PM

This has all been instructive and stimulating. I feel much better prepared to meet up on Sunday with this FCP editor. THe support here is so amazing and important. . So many have said it before, but I'll add my voice to those now. Thanks to you all .. and I shall report back as to how the thing is resolved with all the bloody detail included.

set wrote on 9/18/2013, 11:47 PM

Good Luck!

btw, love to hear her thoughts as FCP user, about "Sony Vegas Pro" in her eyes today... (Let the past is a past...)

I'm sure it will be an input too for the developers in SCS.

Set

deusx wrote on 9/19/2013, 6:59 AM

Mac editor does not compute Vegas. It's like magic. You will finish your editing part weeks before any Mac editor/collaborator finishes theirs and according to their deceased leader that is just not possible, therefore it = black magic of some kind.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/21/2013, 11:28 AM

> "I'll check too on how she is viewing footage so far as the drive she is using came from me and its formatted NTSF. . I've never used exFAT but I suppose easy enough to format to that from Windows 8, right? "

While Mac's can read NTFS drives, they cannot write to them without additional software. Hopefully she's copying these files off of the drive onto her Mac drive before she starts to work with them. How will she get them back to you? It sounds like you need to set up an exFAT drive for both of you to share.

> "What gives me pause is something like this that I picked up on the Creative Cow FCP forum from May 2013 .. " ... I have a 1080p24 video rendered out with the Avid DNxHD codec on a PC using Premiere. When I bring it over onto my Mac workstation that has FCP 6.0.6 and drag it onto a timeline the preview pane is just red with "Codec could not be opened"."

FCP 6 is really old. FCP 7 was the last version before FCP X. Both FCP 7 and FCP X should be able to handle Avid DNxHD without any problems. I tested a DNxHD file from Vegas Pro 12.0 with FCP X and it worked fine. You said that you gave her the codec installer, but did you give her the .dmg installer for Mac? I'm guessing the codec was never installed.

...back to your original question:

> "Let’s be optimistic and say we each can work on different sections of the piece independently and that final delivery would be for broadcast. Do we have a prayer to develop some sort of workflow between the two editors to get to the finish line?"

I say No, not really. I don't see how you are going to collaborate in two different tools with two different sets of plug-in FX and capabilities, and work on a project together. What about color correcting with different tools. How will you get them to match? It's not impossible, but It's hard enough working with another editor when you're both using Vegas Pro and swapping .veg files. I can't imagine how you're going to collaborate with an editor using FCP, or Premiere, or Avid and especially FCP because it's a different operating system with different drive and file formats. Unless you are both very experienced at this (and it sounds like she's not!), I would walk away from the job or buy a Mac if you really want it (unless she's using FCP 7 in which case buying a Mac won't help because FCP 7 is discontinued and not worth learning).

I wish you luck and patience because you are going to need a whole bag full of both. ;-)

~jr