Vegas Pro 21 Builds 314,315 cannot render

Bockeman wrote on 6/30/2024, 9:01 AM

Build 300 works fine (after retrograding from Builds 314 and 315, Build 300 still works fine).

I upgraded to Build 314, and shortly after to Build 315 (without fully testing Build 314), and encountered a render problem with both these builds, so an issue has been introduced in the Build 300 to Build 314 upgrade.

As soon as I press "Render As ..." VEGAS Pro 21 crashes with "Vegas Pro has stopped working" and ensuing requests to send context data (which I did). I repeated this with various project settings, and also a prior project that previously rendered ok, and every time. as soon as I press "Render As ..." VEGAS Pro 21 crashes with "Vegas Pro has stopped working". I do not get to see the pop-up for render options. So this problem is independent of project settings and render settings.

I realise that my hardware is old, and has been upgraded in many ways, including to a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 graphics card, but this system meets all of my performance and storage requirements.

Details from the top of msinfo32 System Information are:

  System Information report written at: 06/29/24 10:50:43
  System Name: XXXXX
  [System Summary]Item    Value    
  OS Name    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro    
  Version    10.0.19045 Build 19045    
  Other OS Description     Not Available    
  OS Manufacturer    Microsoft Corporation    
  System Name    VERIULAN    
  System Manufacturer    System manufacturer    
  System Model    System Product Name    
  System Type    x64-based PC    
  System SKU    To be filled by O.E.M.    
  Processor    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2700K CPU @ 3.50GHz, 3501 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)    
  BIOS Version/Date    American Megatrends Inc. 0706, 2011-08-05    
  SMBIOS Version    2.6    
  Embedded Controller Version    255.255    
  BIOS Mode    Legacy    
  BaseBoard Manufacturer    ASUSTeK Computer INC.    
  BaseBoard Product    P8Z68-V PRO    
  BaseBoard Version    Rev 1.xx    
  Platform Role    Workstation    
  Secure Boot State    Unsupported    
  PCR7 Configuration    Binding Not Possible    
  Windows Directory    C:\WINDOWS    
  System Directory    C:\WINDOWS\system32    
  Boot Device    \Device\HarddiskVolume5    
  Locale    United Kingdom    
  Hardware Abstraction Layer    Version = "10.0.19041.3636"    
  User Name    XXXXX\XXXX    
  Time Zone    GMT Daylight Time    
  Installed Physical Memory (RAM)    16.0 GB    
  Total Physical Memory    15.9 GB    
  Available Physical Memory    7.41 GB    
  Total Virtual Memory    31.9 GB    
  Available Virtual Memory    18.9 GB    
  Page File Space    16.0 GB    
  Page File    E:\pagefile.sys    
  Kernel DMA Protection    Off    
  Virtualization-based security    Not enabled    
  Device Encryption Support    Reasons for failed automatic device encryption: TPM is not usable, PCR7 binding is not supported, Hardware Security Test Interface failed and device is not Modern Standby, Un-allowed DMA capable bus/device(s) detected, TPM is not usable    
  Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions    Yes    
  Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions    Yes    
  Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware    Yes    
  Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection    Yes

and the display section

[Display]

Item    Value    
Name    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980    
PNP Device ID    PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13C0&SUBSYS_111610DE&REV_A1\4&80E7924&0&0008    
Adapter Type    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, NVIDIA compatible    
Adapter Description    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980    
Adapter RAM    (1,048,576) bytes    
Installed Drivers    C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_498f01bd7f2b1a50\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_498f01bd7f2b1a50\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_498f01bd7f2b1a50\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_498f01bd7f2b1a50\nvldumdx.dll    
Driver Version    30.0.14.9649    
INF File    oem17.inf (Section004 section)    
Color Planes    Not Available    
Color Table Entries    4294967296    
Resolution    1920 x 1080 x 119 hertz    
Bits/Pixel    32    
Memory Address    0xFA000000-0xFAFFFFFF    
Memory Address    0xC0000000-0xCFFFFFFF    
Memory Address    0xD0000000-0xD1FFFFFF    
IRQ Channel    IRQ 16    
Driver    C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERSTORE\FILEREPOSITORY\NVLEI.INF_AMD64_498F01BD7F2B1A50\NVLDDMKM.SYS (30.0.14.9649, 37.51 MB (39,335,552 bytes), 2021-10-29 18:34)    
        
Name    Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000    
PNP Device ID    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0122&SUBSYS_844D1043&REV_09\3&11583659&0&10    
Adapter Type    Intel(R) HD Graphics Family, Intel Corporation compatible    
Adapter Description    Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000    
Adapter RAM    (2,084,569,088) bytes    
Installed Drivers    igdumd64.dll,igd10umd64.dll,igd10umd64.dll    
Driver Version    9.17.10.4459    
INF File    oem2.inf (iSNBD0 section)    
Color Planes    Not Available    
Color Table Entries    4294967296    
Resolution    3840 x 2160 x 59 hertz    
Bits/Pixel    32    
Memory Address    0xFB400000-0xFB7FFFFF    
Memory Address    0xB0000000-0xBFFFFFFF    
I/O Port    0x0000F000-0x0000F03F    
IRQ Channel    IRQ 4294967290    
I/O Port    0x000003B0-0x000003BB    
I/O Port    0x000003C0-0x000003DF    
Memory Address    0xA0000-0xBFFFF    
Driver    C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\IGDKMD64.SYS (9.17.10.4459, 5.13 MB (5,382,856 bytes), 2017-03-09 00:16)

From the more general thread:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-pro-21-build-314-and-315-general-thread--145728/?page=6#ca918003

@Reyfox commented:

... from Vegas for CPU requirements: 6th Generation Intel Core i5 (or AMD equivalent) or better with 2.5 Ghz and 4 Cores. Your CPU is a 2nd gen version.

Wanting to edit with the latest software on very outdated hardware is a "hit or miss" situation. I don't understand why you didn't download a trial version first to see how it performs on your hardware.

I accept that my 2nd generation CPU may be slow compared to a later generation, but I have not noticed any performance degradation when using VEGAS Pro 21 Build 300. I cannot see how a subsequent upgrade to Build 314 or 315 could cause a catastrophic failure; I might get a graceful degradation in performance when new features are added. How can an underperforming CPU, that from an instruction set point of view is identical, lead to a catastrophic failure? [And if, due to an oversight on my part, the instruction sets are not identical, and a build upgrade uses a new CPU feature, then this surely would need to be strongly advised as well as introducing a new check with graceful messaging/fallback when VP21 starts, that the software does [not] support the hardware discovered.]

@Reyfox asks:

I don't understand why you didn't download a trial version first to see how it performs on your hardware.

Because that is complicated. To run a trial version, I'd need to uninstall my paid for version, and then I am still not sure that it would not pick up my paid for licence. (In fact, I actually had to do this [uninstall VP21] to retrograde back to Build 300, and when I did, it correctly picked up my licence, settings and so on). For mid-version build upgrades, I am given the option of ignore, or upgrade. I upgrade at my earliest convenience. I've ever had a problem with an upgrade before. (For a major version upgrade, when I am paying for new features, then I have to check that my hardware is supported.)

@Reyfox have I answered all your questions?

I strongly suspect that when "Render As ..." is pressed, the software does a check on graphics hardware that is available so that it can correctly display options in the Render Properties pop-up. In my case, the unused onboard Intel HD Graphics 3000 might cause some hardware detection issues. I can see that if the hardware detection code has been "improved" in Build 314 then that would explain why this latter build crashes. I would suggest that code to handle unused graphics hardware has been "simplified" and therefore causes VP21.314 to crash when this hardware detection is performed. Just a hunch.

I cannot justify spending £5000 on a new machine because £250 software does not support my old machine. This is a bug introduced between Build 300 and Build 314. I'd like it fixed so that I continue to upgrade and benefit from fixed/new features which I have paid for.

Comments

Reyfox wrote on 6/30/2024, 10:33 AM

In reverse.... you are, at least to my knowledge, the only one with this problem. I have updated all along and never an issue getting things rendered. So is it a bug? I don't know. I can point to your CPU not being recommended. That's hardware. But someone else would have to chime in if they are using 13 year old CPU's 10 year old GPU's with Vegas 21.

Next redundant question I'm sure you've already have done. Have you updated your iGPU and GPU to the latest available drivers? It seems your GPU has been updated since 2022? At least that is when the driver listed above came out.

When I was referring to the trial version, I thought you have an earlier version of Vegas than VP21. My bad. At least rolling back to a previous build (they all can be found HERE in the forum)

[quote] [And if, due to an oversight on my part, the instruction sets are not identical, and a build upgrade uses a new CPU feature, then this surely would need to be strongly advised as well as introducing a new check with graceful messaging/fallback when VP21 starts, that the software does [not] support the hardware discovered [/quote]

The advise given on what hardware is supported is listed in the Specifications. To add more coding to something that is spelled out on the webpage, in hardware detection might be possible, but again, it is listed what is recommended.

The developers has said they are working on the video engine in Vegas. And while not fully done, it is a work in progress. But at least, your GPU is listed as long as it has 4GB of RAM.

While the computer meets all of your performance and storage requirements, that might not apply to 2024 software. And the 5000 pound for a new computer, you don't have spend anywhere near the much money. Look at my computer specs. Certainly not even close to that amount.

Update your GPU and iGPU drivers and see how that goes.

Bockeman wrote on 7/1/2024, 1:27 PM

@Reyfox with the upmost respect, you appear to have missed an important paragraph in my post:

I strongly suspect that when "Render As ..." is pressed, the software does a check on graphics hardware that is available so that it can correctly display options in the Render Properties pop-up. In my case, the unused onboard Intel HD Graphics 3000 might cause some hardware detection issues. I can see that if the hardware detection code has been "improved" in Build 314 then that would explain why this latter build crashes. I would suggest that code to handle unused graphics hardware has been "simplified" and therefore causes VP21.314 to crash when this hardware detection is performed. Just a hunch.

To put this another way: I don't care that my hardware is old, that my drivers may not be the latest. The fact is my system worked fine for me using VP21 Build 300, but is completely useless with Build 314.

I do not see how you can argue that this is not a bug that was introduced between 300 and 314; please elucidate me.

Please could you treat this as a bug and not introduce distractions like: I'm the first one to find this bug, the bug only manifests on my system or update my drivers. (Updating my drivers violates an important principle in debugging: only change one variable at a time -- the variable here is 300 to 314).

Footnote: I did a quick costing excercise for a new (admittedly a bells and whistles variant) system with a reputanle manufacture 'D'. I got to £4808 before even adding screens and sound system. Also this was "temorarily out of stock". Yep, you've given me an incentive to invest in some new hardware, but that is not going to happen overnight. That does not solve the problem I have today: supplying requested clips from our video archive. My temporary solution is to revert to build 300, but that is not a solution going forward.

Bockeman wrote on 7/1/2024, 1:59 PM

Please do not be mistaken in thinking I am being selfish here (it's only my system that is broken). I am actually thinking altruistically. The fact that a bug has been introduced in a buld upgrade suggests that internal regression testing is not sufficiently robust. I'm not expecting perfection, there will always be bugs, and there will always be bugs that escape the testing. But when a bug is found, then it should trigger not only identifying the bug, or class of bug, but also an improvement in the regression testing. I cannot imagine that the regression testing could cover every possible combination of hardware, but I would expect an understanding of the class of bug and appropriate corrections.

Even if it is discovered that this particular bug only affects old hardware, at the next upgrade similar bugs could be introduced (also escaping the regression testing) that affect more recent hardware. This would have a much wider impact and therefore a strong incentive for the developers to understand the class of bug introducted in the 300 to 314.upgrade.

john_dennis wrote on 7/1/2024, 2:10 PM

@Bockeman

You've provided information about your system, but not about the "bug".

Windows Reliability History could possibly have details about the error that Vegas Pro 21-314 and or 315 experienced. Here's a link describing how to access it.

View Reliability History

Bockeman wrote on 7/1/2024, 3:21 PM

@john_dennis thanks for responding.

The "bug" is described at the top of this post, specifically:

As soon as I press "Render As ..." VEGAS Pro 21 crashes with "Vegas Pro has stopped working" and ensuing requests to send context data (which I did). I repeated this with various project settings, and also a prior project that previously rendered ok, and every time. as soon as I press "Render As ..." VEGAS Pro 21 crashes with "Vegas Pro has stopped working". I do not get to see the pop-up for render options. So this problem is independent of project settings and render settings.

I also did not know about View Reliability History. That shows critical events like:

Nero Info                                           Stopped working
Adobe AcroCEF                                 Stopped working
Acrobat Collaboration Synchronizer    Stopped working

and information event like:

VEGAS Pro 21                                  Successful application installation.

but there are no critical events for VEGAS Pro 21.

This is good because it shows the exceptions have been suffessfully caught by VEGAS Pro 21 and it handles those exections with "Vegas Pro has stopped working" rather than the falling back on the operating system.

Gid wrote on 7/1/2024, 4:13 PM

@Bockeman Hi, just out of curiousity, I know you've mentioned it crashes when you click Render as & 'and also a prior project' . Can you render a simple clip, just one media file on the timeline?

Bockeman wrote on 7/1/2024, 5:09 PM

@Gid The answer is no. One of the projects is a simple single media file with snippets cut out, not even any fancy fades. I turned off some cropping (resizing), so this is just about as vanilla as you can get.
But, the crash occurs before the render options pop-up appears. In other words the crash is very early in the process. I do not think it has time to even look at the media.

Gid wrote on 7/2/2024, 4:50 AM

Updating my drivers violates an important principle in debugging: only change one variable at a time -- the variable here is 300 to 314).

@Bockeman Update your driver as suggested, then see how it goes, your driver is from 2022, not updating actually goes against your comment above, there's been several updates to the software since 2022, they've changed several variables since then & finally so must you. Unfortunately this is the way it goes, everyone is constantly having to update because someone else has.

I might get a graceful degradation in performance when new features are added.

That's not how it works, things don't just slow down, there comes a time when things work or they don't whether that be with different version or builds, a change has been made & if one doesn't keep up with the other it gets left behind because it's not compatible anymore. . That incs all things PC related whether it's hardware or software.

EricLNZ wrote on 7/2/2024, 5:21 AM

@Bockeman This is a long shot but no harm in trying. With Vegas shut down, in Windows Explorer go to your User\AppData\Roaming\VEGAS. Temporarily move the "Render Templates" folder to somewhere else. Then open Vegas and try rendering.

Bockeman wrote on 7/2/2024, 11:52 AM

@Gid Ok, I begrudginly agree. Yes, a "Windows PC" is a moving target, you have to keep updating (which I do for security reasons). I typically do not update drivers unless Windows Update shows an optional driver update and I checked my records, I did one such driver update on 2022-10-23

Logitech - HIDClass - 1.10.80.0
NVIDIA - Display - 27.21.14.5671
Canon - Printer - 7/18/2018 12:00:00 AM - 3.31.2.10
Atheros driver update for Atheros Valkyrie BootROM
Intel Corporation driver update for Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000
Feature update to Windows 10, version 22H2

I have overcome my self imposed restriction: only change one variable at a time, by keeping to Build 300 and then upgrading the drivers I could. The display section of msinfo32 System Information is now:

[Display]
Item    Value    
Name    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980    
PNP Device ID    PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_13C0&SUBSYS_111610DE&REV_A1\4&80E7924&0&0008    
Adapter Type    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, NVIDIA compatible    
Adapter Description    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980    
Adapter RAM    (1,048,576) bytes    
Installed Drivers    C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_acc84e411f8bff29\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_acc84e411f8bff29\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_acc84e411f8bff29\nvldumdx.dll,C:\WINDOWS\System32\DriverStore\FileRepository\nvlei.inf_amd64_acc84e411f8bff29\nvldumdx.dll    
Driver Version    32.0.15.5612    
INF File    oem4.inf (Section004 section)    
Color Planes    Not Available    
Color Table Entries    4294967296    
Resolution    1920 x 1080 x 119 hertz    
Bits/Pixel    32    
Memory Address    0xFA000000-0xFAFFFFFF    
Memory Address    0xC0000000-0xCFFFFFFF    
Memory Address    0xD0000000-0xD1FFFFFF    
IRQ Channel    IRQ 16    
Driver    C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERSTORE\FILEREPOSITORY\NVLEI.INF_AMD64_ACC84E411F8BFF29\NVLDDMKM.SYS (32.0.15.5612, 57.88 MB (60,689,544 bytes), 2024-07-02 14:24)

I spent a lot of time searching for un update for the Intel HD Graphics 3000 drivers, but it does appear that I have latest from 2016. In any case, VP21 should not be even looking at this graphics card.

With the updated NVIDIA driver, Build 300 renders fine.

I upgraded to Build 315 (there was not option to go via build 314). As reported above, as soon as I hit "Render As ..." I get

Vegas Pro has stopped working

So all the possible driver updates have had no effect on this bug.

Bockeman wrote on 7/2/2024, 12:03 PM

@EricLNZ Thanks for your suggestion. Regretably, that does not solve the problem.🙁

Gid wrote on 7/2/2024, 12:19 PM

@Bockeman I wonder if it makes much difference that you had to install the Game Ready driver 556.12 , as I understand it Vegas prefers the Studio driver but there is none for your GPU.

Bockeman wrote on 7/2/2024, 12:50 PM

@Gid Thanks. I did not think I installed the [GeForce Experience part of the] Game Ready driver, given I did not select that upon installation:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/drivers/
  E:\Download\2024\NVidia\556.12-desktop-win10-win11-64bit-international-dch-whql.exe
  ( ) NVIDIA Graphics Driver and GeForce Experience
  (*) NVIDIA Graphics Driver

There was a problem for me: The latest Game Ready does not support 3D. I have a lot of footage captured in 3D, and for a while, that seemed to be the way things were going. I have a display that supports 3D on my workstation (and I still have a TV that supports 3D), but getting this display to work meant dedicating resources on my graphics card (GTX 980) to that display and driving other screens from the built in graphics (Intel HD Graphics 3000).

But none of the 3D display technologies really caught on, no one has a 3D capable display, and 3D support (e.g. from NVIDIA) has been dropped. I have since reconfigured my displays. I probably can no longer display 3D and I don't think I am even using the built in graphics any more. I think it will have to be completely new hardware if 3D comes back into fashion.

Gid wrote on 7/2/2024, 1:05 PM

@Bockeman I'm not sure I can help, you can uninstall GeForce Experience if you want, I like it, it makes updating drivers & screen capture easy.

Everything about your iGPU I've read says things like this below & prob why you can't find an update for the driver. I'm surprised you had VP21 (300) working.

Windows 10 -

was released to manufacturing on July 15, 2015, and later to retail on July 29, 2015.'

Can Intel HD Graphics 3000 run Windows 10? Is there a solution?

HD 3000 graphics are not supported on Windows 10, and have never been. That means Intel hasn't tested it on Windows 10 and hasn't kept the driver up-to-date with Windows 10

You know your PC is old, so with respect I suggest you roll back to build 300 if that was working for you, you can roll back any drivers you wish to also.

Bockeman wrote on 7/2/2024, 1:07 PM

Solved: I disbaled the built in graphics driver.

Device Manager | Display adapters
  Intel(R) HD Graphics 3000        Disable

Rendering now works fine in VP21 Build 315.

Thanks to all who have contributed above that prompted me to try this solution.