My current project on VP16 b424 (and earlier builds) has 29 video tracks and 11 audio tracks (5.1 and 2.0) and is in rough cut form 3 hrs long (ouch!). Most VFX are VP native plus NBFX CF2 and many BCC and Mocha Pro FX - crashes so far in the last 6 months of this project - none as I can recall. Going back about 7 years, VP11 was a crash-fest.

As many, many people have said on this forum over the years, stability with VP often relies on hardware as well as hardware drivers.

In my experience Vegas is as stable or more stable than other NLE's I use/have used. I typically experience ZERO crashes at all during editing sessions using my normal workflow. I can MAKE it crash when experimenting with media I don't usually use, or when stress-testing a new workflow/media type.

IMO, most common causes are #1 - media Vegas doesn't like! QuickTime files, Oddball mp4's from phones / game capture software. #2 GPU / monitor issues. #3 Stressing the system by dumping too many files all at once for it to process.

 

I envy you... ZERO crashes!!!

Moreover, you wrote "more stable that other NLE's"... I have two doubts, here:

1> more stable the Final Cut on a Mac? (same hardware/software, maker, everything should be easier...)

2> there even are a (lot? few?) Known Issues in the Latest Version of VEGAS Pro (http://bit.ly/2HZNTPq).. that means you don't need any of those workflows...

In my last 3 PC, I really had no luck... (Movie Studio, then Vegas... always crashed a lot)

Thank you for sharing your expertise!
ciao!

Marco

My current project on VP16 b424 (and earlier builds) has 29 video tracks and 11 audio tracks (5.1 and 2.0) and is in rough cut form 3 hrs long (ouch!). Most VFX are VP native plus NBFX CF2 and many BCC and Mocha Pro FX - crashes so far in the last 6 months of this project - none as I can recall. Going back about 7 years, VP11 was a crash-fest.

As many, many people have said on this forum over the years, stability with VP often relies on hardware as well as hardware drivers.

So you are saying I had no luck when buying my new machine, even I choose it after reading the official hw recommendations... :-(

I even wrote the Magix support in order to have a more precise support over the best computer to buy, they told me they wouldn't recommend one machine over the other, because they have agreements with many vendors... So I choosed mylself, ending up in this valley of despair!

...29 video tracks, 11 audio and 3 hrs long... I can only dream I could do that!!!

grazie!
ciao!

Marco

>>After almost 20 years of Sony, then Magix, I'm on a brink of leaving this software, that I love...

What changed? Sounds like you were happy with Vegas for a very long time and then things changed. Are you blaming the latest version of Vegas, namely VP16 424? Is that what changed?

 

I envy you... ZERO crashes!!!

Moreover, you wrote "more stable that other NLE's"... I have two doubts, here:

1> more stable the Final Cut on a Mac? (same hardware/software, maker, everything should be easier...)

2> there even are a (lot? few?) Known Issues in the Latest Version of VEGAS Pro (http://bit.ly/2HZNTPq).. that means you don't need any of those workflows...

In my last 3 PC, I really had no luck... (Movie Studio, then Vegas... always crashed a lot)

Thank you for sharing your expertise!
ciao!

Marco

 

@Marco-Stucchi

1) I don't use Mac's. But, if I had to guess, I would say FCPX on an Apple laptop would likely be more stable than Vegas on a Windows laptop.

2) Your link doesn't work so I don't know what "known issues" you are referring to. I certainly do use a lot of Vegas' new capabilities. Particularly storyboarding. Note that this has improved dramatically in latest V16 builds.

@Marco-Stucchi
For more help here learn first how to upload files to this site and not to all kind of dangerous websites. This forum has a fine upload possibility which you with your 20 years experience should know where to find.

@Marco-Stucchi

Also, I see from your previous post you are trying to use h.265 footage directly on the timeline.

Remember my point above

: #1 - media Vegas doesn't like.

FCPX will automatically transcode this to prores. To compare fairly to Vegas you should also transcode / use proxies.

>>After almost 20 years of Sony, then Magix, I'm on a brink of leaving this software, that I love...

What changed? Sounds like you were happy with Vegas for a very long time and then things changed. Are you blaming the latest version of Vegas, namely VP16 424? Is that what changed?

Hi xberk, thank you for coming and sharing your expertise! No, I have to be honest, as soon as I installed it, it seemed to me a significant jump forward, both for functionalities and the interface.

Then I started having so many crashes, that I had to work one day for a task that should have taken 2 hours!
After few days of not-done-work, I started hating it!

Then, you know, memory, I started remembering all the times when I was on a new project, maybe with 3 more tracks, maybe with a few more effects... and it crashed...

Now, really, I HAVE to find a stable solution for my workflow! I can't afford one more month spent on reading forums and how-to...

I've prepared some samples and asked an eBay seller to test them on his used laptop... while recording his screen. So desperate I am to bother that poor seller so much...

thank you!
ciao!

Marco

PS btw, I think Magix should propose a new, paid version, but then they should spend subsequent months fixing all the bugs, prior to put on sale a new version... or to put on sale a new version with mainly bug fixes...

@Marco-Stucchi

1) I don't use Mac's. But, if I had to guess, I would say FCPX on an Apple laptop would likely be more stable than Vegas on a Windows laptop.

2) Your link doesn't work so I don't know what "known issues" you are referring to. I certainly do use a lot of Vegas' new capabilities. Particularly storyboarding. Note that this has improved dramatically in latest V16 builds.

 

Hi Kinvermark, thanks again for coming back and speding some time with my trouble... :o)

1> yes that's what is really attracting me... a stable OS, with a stable NLE, so that I can focus on creativity, not on how to overcome bugs...

2> the link was simply a short version of https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/known-issues-in-the-latest-version-of-vegas-pro--108942/

I have to be honest with you, when I read about storyboarding I cried "finally! Great!" Now, I can't find a useful mode to leverage that... and there, even there, a few bugs...

(copying from the official "Known Issues in the Latest Version of VEGAS Pro")

- Storyboards do not handle multiple instances of the same media.
- Replacing a piece of media in a storyboard does not replace it on the timeline.
- Using import media function to import media directly main timeline storyboard does not update the main timeline.
- Auto-scrolling does not work within the storyboard.
- Reordering media in the storyboard resets the in/out points to beginning/end.

Thanks a lot for your support!

Ciao!
Marco

@Marco-Stucchi

Also, I see from your previous post you are trying to use h.265 footage directly on the timeline.

Remember my point above

: #1 - media Vegas doesn't like.

FCPX will automatically transcode this to prores. To compare fairly to Vegas you should also transcode / use proxies.

 

Kinvermark, THAT was the MOST important part of knowledge shared, here (IMHO).

FCPX will automatically do proxies????

So forget my ideal workflow RECORD > EDIT > PUBLISH

Welcome the double-the-HDD-space workflow RECORD > TRANSCODE > EDIT > PUBLISH

Sorry, are you 100% sure FCPX does that even on newer machines, with T2 dedicated HEVC chipset?

That would completely change my scenario...

Thanks!

Marco

Last time I tried to load HEVC into FCPX, last month during a music festival shoot where the project lead insisted on using FCPX, it wouldn't accept the file at all (I think newer versions will, with transcoding to prores). We had to use adobe media encoder to convert it to H264. We also had a hard time getting the color right, as FCPX's color tools are very lacking.

Stability at the cost of functionality.

And it isn't even completely stable...

So, are you willing to give up functionality and spend more money to buy a program that won't be able to do all you need it to, and still might crash on you?

I'd personally try to resolve what the issue is causing the crash. Try to transcode your media to proxies (right click on the file in project media, there is an option to build a proxy in the menu). See if that helps. HEVC is not a format meant for editing. My Ryzen 7 1800x CPU, no slouch in performance, cannot decode a single HEVC clip that is encoded at above 40mbps, at all. It won't even play in media player or VLC. Some computers can handle a lower bitrate HEVC file or two, but you still will see far greater performance by avoiding that format or transcoding a proxy.

 

So, are you willing to give up functionality and spend more money to buy a program that won't be able to do all you need it to, and still might crash on you?

I'd personally try to resolve what the issue is causing the crash. Try to transcode your media to proxies (right click on the file in project media, there is an option to build a proxy in the menu). See if that helps. HEVC is not a format meant for editing. My Ryzen 7 1800x CPU, no slouch in performance, cannot decode a single HEVC clip that is encoded at above 40mbps, at all. It won't even play in media player or VLC. Some computers can handle a lower bitrate HEVC file or two, but you still will see far greater performance by avoiding that format or transcoding a proxy.

Hi there fr0sty, again and again, thank you for your expertise being shared here! :o)

Yes, I need to become proficient, I'm changing my life, from marketing consultant to video creator, and I just a few months of money left to accomplish it! I cannot waste another month after Vegas problems.

I know it's all my fault, but I can't rationally overcome the idea of a clean workflow camera>edit>publish without transcoding. My projects already use 10-50GB of space, transcoding makes it 20-100GB (and 1h time).

Last Sony mirrorless use H265 for high bitrates.

Partial list of hardware that includes dedicated HEVC: Intel 6th-generation ‘Skylake’, AMD 'Carizzo’, Nvidia GM206 GPUs, Nvidia Tegra X1...

All those goodies and I can't have a smooth preview, for a 1080p project? I can't digest this thing...

And, trusting Apple official sources, Final Cut Pro 10.4.6 can do:
"Import, playback, and editing of High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC, also known as H.265) video clips and High Efficiency Image Format (HEIF) photos from Apple devices2"
https://apple.co/2HVnCSt

So, a Mac mini, or Macbook Air would do it.

Still thinking about it, honestly, fr0sty...

What a complex world...

;o)

Marco

Maybe better to learn first how to configure your source files to make a format with the right dimensions, framerate and bitrate for the best use for your output ( and the program you want to make that)?
And than after some time making your experiences discover what the best settings are for your used hardware plus extras to use it as desired, like most longtime users here do.

Being able to import h265 isn't being able to edit it smoothly, as Vegas has pointed out (well, at least how your system has pointed out, nobody else here has your issue with just one clip on the timeline).

And it comes down to exactly how pro you are trying to get here... FCP X sucks at audio, for instance, not that great at coloring, its format support options are still extremely limited, and its export options are even more limited. It's actually playing catch up to Vegas now, only recently adding 360 video and limited HDR support (can't preview HDR without buying extra hardware). So, you can blame Vegas and PCs all you want, but don't be surprised if you spend thousands on a mac and still have to make proxies in order to have a steady editing experience.

Also, regarding proxies, vegas uses 720p proxies that do not take up anywhere near as much disk space as a full res intermediate would, and those files are swapped with the original HEVC files when you go to render, and deleted as soon as you're done with them, so there's that.

@Marco-Stucchi

Which Sony camera? Don't the better ones shoot XAVC as well? High bitrate XAVC-I would be top quality and far more editable. H265 is primarily a consumer presentation format.

Yes, I need to become proficient, I'm changing my life, from marketing consultant to video creator, and I just a few months of money left to accomplish it! I cannot waste another month after Vegas problems.

@Marco-Stucchi Please don't take my post as being a smart ass, because what I have to say is sincere.

I wish you the best of luck in your new enterprise/career, but with only a few months of running capital it's not likely you will pull it off. Your expertise in marketing will certain help you market your skills and that may be a bonus that other start-ups lack. But really you are fighting an uphill battle.

I haven't kept up with your other thread, but have read all the replies here, and there is not a single member who has replied that hasn't been trying to help you and present logic based on their experience in the filed.

No matter what OS platform, MacOS, PC WinodwsOS or what type of NLE be it Vegas Pro Resolve, Adobe, Avid or FCPX, you are going to have the capabilities, like the rest of us to run into problems and I would say there is no a single professional member in this forum who has not run into problems in the final hours of their deadline, and often this has happened to their best customer, out of the blue, unexpected and frustrated their future.

I would also venture to say, that many or even most professionals that have been at this for a while have used various work arounds such as proxies or intermediates to keep their business flowing and have made it a part of their workflow until their favorite NLE finally caught up to the latest and greatest released codec that camera manufacturers jump on and the rest of the industry has to do catchup.

If you are serious about being successful (you sound like you are), I would suggest you consider doing what other professionals have done before you, shot your film in a format that you can process without complications (h264/x264, ProRes, DNx, etc.), or if you are trapped into your current cameras (I assume you have multiples) shooting in a delivery format, just add proxies/intermediates to your workflow (it doesn't take that long to build and storage space is going to be cheaper than your business license and insurance. Your going to need to build a huge NAS/Raid storage bank anyway, sooner or later).

Again, I'm not trying to be mean or condescending, I'm sure you have giving your 'new deal' lots of thought and research and I would assume you have a good handle on the business end, but perhaps your lack of experience in the 'nuts and bolts' grunt work is lacking and you seem to have a resistance to listen to other professionals.

Also, my hat is off to you for laying your cards on the table and asking others. Regardless I wish you the best and with a lot of perseverance, when you become a successful star you can remember back to this and I will be the first to commend you for a job well done despite my stated reservations.