Vegas Pro Gamma Shift followup

Cliff Etzel wrote on 2/6/2015, 2:10 PM

I had made reference to Vegas Pro gamma shift issues in post and had to dig around via the search function to reference what I was originally commenting on.

According to @farss he stated: "To see your video correctly you must apply the Levels FX with the Studio RGB to Computer RGB preset to the preview monitor. You must ensure you turn it off for rendering." - original thread: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=767830

Is there anyway to automate this process so that one doesn't have to go through a mental checklist each time or have users basically developed a habit of doing this manually?

Apparently my Canon DSLR's shoot 0-255, and being somewhat thick headed on this stuff, what does that mean, if anything, when in post in Vegas Pro and rendering out?

I have defaulted to using the RGB waveforms only when editing for the web - should I be using something else or in conjunction with the RGB waveforms? As it stands now, I've never had to deliver for broadcast signal.

It's the minutiae of post production that drives me a little crazy at times.

Hopefully I can get some additional insight on this

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Comments

VidMus wrote on 2/7/2015, 4:00 PM

Peter100 said, "AFAIK there is no industrial standard for web delivery."

and

"For my webplayer I deliver in 0-255, becouse it does not stretch 16-235 scale and image looks dull."

Even if there were no standards, there still needs to be consistency. My main monitor will show videos poorly because in order to reduce eyestrain, I adjust it to a much reduced brightness and contrast. My second monitor which is used only on my editing system is very bright and calibrated for video work. Important Note: Calibrated!

I can upload my videos to look great on my main monitor but that means it would only look great on my main monitor and whatever it looks like on other peoples monitors. That can be anywhere from great all the way down to poor.

So please consider the reason for using 16 to 235 as being for consistency so people do not have to adjust and readjust their monitors for different videos on the many sites on the internet.

If your monitor shows poor video with 16 to 235 then it needs to either be calibrated for video or you need to view it on a second monitor that is properly calibrated for video.

I just got me a new ASUS monitor that has a 1920x1080 native resolution and have spent hours calibrating it the way it should be. Out of the box, it was terrible at best. The adjustments are a pain to work with, in fact the worst I have ever seen, but now it looks great!

Remember, consistency...

Peter100 wrote on 2/7/2015, 4:08 PM

@VidMus
Thank you for the info. However I know how to identify the palette color number displayed on a screen. In this case calibration does not matter. That is why I use videoscopes.

VidMus wrote on 2/7/2015, 4:25 PM

@ musicvid10

If one uses "Adjust levels from studio RGB to computer RGB" from the preferences then part of step 1 is not needed and step 2 is not needed even with just one monitor at full screen.

One monitor is a bit of a pain to work with, but no one should ever use only one monitor for video editing anyway!

Doing it this way eliminates the extra steps and one has less things to remember. In my older age, I have a strong tendency to forget things and end-up having to do things over again because of it. So the easier I make it and the fewer steps that are involved, the better for me.

Why create more steps than whats needed? As for a project with graphics and video, I can put the graphics on a separate track that has the levels set for 'Computer RGB to Studio RGB' and then all events in the project will be at the same levels.

You are making it harder than it has to be!

So, real easy, and less steps. It gets the job done, with less to remember.

VidMus wrote on 2/7/2015, 4:38 PM

@ Peter100

It is quite helpful to see what I am actually getting. Calibration is a MUST for this!

What I See Is What I Get, especially with my new monitor.

A great time saver!

I also know how to use the waveform monitor and the vectorscope, etc.

Edit: You still need consistency on the internet and DVD's

Peter100 wrote on 2/7/2015, 5:03 PM

@VidMus, @musicvid10

I've just made a short test and indeed, two tested by me webplayers need 16-235 tone range. I've messed something up.
Sorry for the wrong info on the forum.

Regarding to monitor calibration, I know it is necessary. I work for almost 20 years in a publishing house. What I meant, was that if you want to check if the super blacks and superwhites are displayed correctly, you do not need calibrated monitor. Videoscopes will be most accurate

VidMus wrote on 2/7/2015, 5:32 PM

@ Peter100

Thank you for the clarification.

The waveform monitor and vectorscope are indeed important for video work. Especially if one REALLY knows how to use them!

Peter100 wrote on 2/7/2015, 5:51 PM

@VidMus
Yes, I agree. For me the best way of checking super whites and super blacks from musicvid10's grayscale chart (mentioned above) is using waveform. You can exactly say what tones and where are outside 16-235 (0-100%) limits.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/7/2015, 6:13 PM

Edit RGB, Encode YUV.
It doesn't get much simpler than that.

john_dennis wrote on 2/7/2015, 7:59 PM

Levels can be wrangled into spec using various means.

Brightness and Contrast Filter

Color Curves

VidMus wrote on 2/7/2015, 8:55 PM

@ musicvid10

The way you word it, it is simple. In practice, for me, it is not so simple.

The way I do it is the easiest for me.

Notes: I usually do not use very many graphics so that is not a problem for me. RGB modes look terrible on my monitors. The color is crazy wrong, the levels are also crazy wrong. I do not know how to describe it but it is crazy wrong.

I am using a later version of NVidia driver with the 580 card.

I am too lazy and tired to figure it out right now.

What I am doing now works great for me and I have no incentive to mess with things to find out why the RGB is such a crazy mess.

So I will leave it alone for now.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/7/2015, 9:32 PM

Sorry, I do not know what "RGB modes" are on your monitors, nor was I referring to anything of the sort.
If 16-235 yuv does not look right, there is something set wrong.

Keep dynamic contrast turned off. Its a kludge.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/8/2015, 8:37 AM

Watch the tutorial starting from 4:30 - 6:10, and also at 9:05 if using a prosumer camcorder. Although dated and technically overly simplistic, it's helped a lot of people over the years, and provides a good starting place for those just delving into the issue. The correction in Vegas applies to delivery for web, computer, home theater, and phones / portables. If the colors look a bit washed out on playback after following the instructions, it's because your player, graphics or monitor is wrong.

This is my last post on this topic, with full understanding that
TIMTOWTDI*
*(Look it up.)

VidMus wrote on 2/8/2015, 5:22 PM

I have more that I would like to say here but I have a lot of video work to do so I will be moving on from this thread.

I will be quite busy for a while so see you all sometime later on.

Play time is over for now. GRIN and ;)