VP14 and CUDA

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 11:12 AM

Hi. My only reason switching from Vegas 13 Pro to Vegas 14 Pro would be functional CUDA rendering option. But it seems like my GTX 1070 is not supported. I don't see it in options at all.

Still though, are there any way how to render any codec over CUDA?

In Vegas 13 Pro I have option to select Encode mode - for instance Sony AVC/MVC codec.

In Vegas 14 Pro - there is no Encode mode option.

So, Magix rather than fixing the issue just removed it?

Comments

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 12:35 PM

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/graphics-card-not-showing-up-in-gpu-acceleration--103708/#ca639612


Sorry, no. Your solution open the possibility of Rendering over GPU - but unfortunately it's not working for GTX 1070 - as it show this:

Yeah. No GPU. ūüėď

Nick Hope wrote on 9/23/2016, 12:39 PM

Thanks for the info. Which codec were you trying to render with? Can you see and "Encode Mode" section at the bottom of the Video tab, and if you do, what options do you have in the drop down menu?

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 12:48 PM

Thanks for the info. Which codec were you trying to render with? Can you see and "Encode Mode" section at the bottom of the Video tab, and if you do, what options do you have in the drop down menu?


Yes. :) But when I trying to render - it switch still using CPU like no GPU is installed.

This is something I've personally reported to SONY 3 years ago. And many others did. Back then I was using GTX560Ti ... SONY promised to resolve the issue in the next update - which never came out.

I don't want that to happen. I just want to find solution which ease our render-time of our projects. But it seems Sony Vegas Pro 13 is the absolutely "same" as Magix Vegas Pro 14 ... :(

After spending some time in Trial mode - I see new icons, and ... better stability I guess? But that could be also placebo' effect.

Sorry, please don't take me offensive. I really want new Vegas for a long time, but I feel little dissapointed now.

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 12:51 PM

And sorry Nick, I forgot on options ... here we go. After enabling that value from secret menu - it showed me that options.

Same as for Vegas 13. But except "Render using CPU only" - others don't work.

NormanPCN wrote on 9/23/2016, 2:07 PM

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/graphics-card-not-showing-up-in-gpu-acceleration--103708/#ca639612


Sorry, no. Your solution open the possibility of Rendering over GPU - but unfortunately it's not working for GTX 1070 - as it show this:

Yeah. No GPU. ūüėď

Vegas uses your GPU for all video processing. This is controlled on video preferences. As for file encoding to AVC no. On Mainconcept AVC no modern GPUs have every been supported and at least that render template system check button is telling you so. Previously it said OpenCL or CUDA were avaialble even when they would not be used. Mainconcpet is the developer of nearly every encoder used in Vegas and they have not updated their AVC encoder for newer GPU architectures and probably never will. This does not mean that Vegas does not use your GPU. It will for all video processing via OpenCL. It just means that MC AVC does not use the GPU for file encoding.

Sony AVC is the only other file encoder that has/had GPU support but even on GPUs it supported it gain little in performance because it seems it only uses the GPU for one or two items and when it does get a boost it is not much.

GPU file encoders are not a win, win. Their quality sucks compared to good encoders. People want it for some reason. To each his/her own.

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 2:16 PM

 It just means that MC AVC does not use the GPU for file encoding.

Here is my problem with this statement. VEGAS PRO 12 actually SUPPORTED CUDA rendering over the MC AVC and SONY AVC/MVC. Then one day: it stops and SONY replied that it will be fixed - but they never release the patch for it.

That's the problem. Actually the encoding process COULD handle processing over CUDA (GPU).

SONY AVC was NOT the only file encoder with such support :). I was able the same file with the same quality get faster - and that's why people need that. Not for some reason. But for good one: to save time! The final rendered quality is the absolutely same as rendering over CPU.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/23/2016, 2:28 PM

@Fiola

 

Users like NormanPCN, BruceUSA, myself and others have tested the whole GPU acceleration since it first came out with VP11, to death. There are thosusands of treads about that topic.

From VP11 up to VP13, only two encoders supported CUDA acceleration, MC AVC and SONY AVC. Both only support Nvidia cards up to GTX580. If you ever experienced acceleration with a later card, it was/is because NVIDIA does also support OpenCL which all versions since VP11 use to accelerate preview and fx processing. In order to render a video, the fx is processed using OpenCL and then only encoded. If the encoder supports CUDA and your card, it will be accelerated again.

VP14 is not different at all and my assumption is that Magix removed the options from the render template because almost no user has one of those older cards or, it was completely disabled. Someone with a GTX580 would have to confirm whether this is true or not. However, FX processing with OpenCL is still there. AMD cards have the upper hand when it comes to OpenCL and that is reason I swtiched to AMD.

Last changed by OldSmoke on 9/23/2016, 2:31 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Ram: G.Skill 8x4GB DDR3 2133 (running at 1600 and lower latency)
CPU: 3930K @ 4.3GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: 4x 2GB WD Red in RAID 5 (with Hot Spare), 2x Crucial 256GB SSD in RAID 0 (mulitcam project drive), 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (System), 1x Crucial 64GB SSD (temp files and swap file), 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner
PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM, 1x Sony HDTV 32" preview monitor

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 2:41 PM

@OldSmoke: Understood. Thank you for insight. In our team, we tested this a lot too. I guess you're right about NVIDIA versions.

But still. I don't understand why the MAGIX just is not building for these new cards which are powerfull as hell. Basically - If I press CTRL+F9 to "record my screen" from preview - I get my file in 50mbps full hd in real time to mp4... this should be implemented and render could use that.

NormanPCN wrote on 9/23/2016, 2:48 PM

Fiola,

Mainconcept AVC only ever supported AMD 6xxx GPUs and lower via OpenCL and Nvidia 5xx GPUs and lower via CUDA. True in V12 and V13 and probably V11. I know this when MC AVC stopped using GPU for me in Vegas 12 when I updated my GPU from an AMD 5850 to a 7950. MC AVC in Vegas 13 still used my 5850 but not my 7950.

I doubt Sony ever said "it" will be fixed. In fact, years ago when this happened to me I challenged an SCS person who said in the forum that an AMD 7xxx GPU works for them in MC AVC. They never responded to my challenge to post render numbers beyond their statement that it worked for them. Others in the forum got the same results as me. Meaning the 7xxx is not supported by MC AVC.

The bottom line is that MC AVC has never been updated for newer GPUs and probably never will be since it has been years. Only Mainconcept can do anything about this as they are the ones who wrote it. Actually they created nearly all the encoders and decoders Vegas uses. IMO, Mainconcept was near sighted in hard coding the encoder to specific GPU architectures. IMO, It's okay to have a custom/tweaked version for max performance but one must still have a generic OpenCL/CUDA implementation to support newer GPUs.

If you say the GPU encoder quality is the same as other then good for you. Do what you like and works for you. Howver there are others who have statistically (PSNR, SSIM) tested many encoders and the GPU encoders (Mainconcept, Quicksync). At high bitrates the eye is not likely to see the differences.

Fiola wrote on 9/23/2016, 3:36 PM

Ok. Thanks. Well, I guess it's easy. When I see that speed of my processing power of computer is used only on 20% - I am little dissapointed. I would really pay for something, what uses all processing power (as Adobe software does). So basically, I would really ask MAGIX to do something about it and implement new codecs which are capable render faster and better than just accepting there is no chance to do something about that :/ ...

david-lisboa wrote on 9/26/2016, 5:45 PM

This is weird. My 970 seems to be working fine and i have faster rendering times than i did with Vegas 13.

My system:

i7 6700k
GTX 970
16 gb's of RAM

VidMus wrote on 9/27/2016, 2:53 AM

VP14 is not different at all and my assumption is that Magix removed the options from the render template because almost no user has one of those older cards or, it was completely disabled. Someone with a GTX580 would have to confirm whether this is true or not. However, FX processing with OpenCL is still there. AMD cards have the upper hand when it comes to OpenCL and that is reason I swtiched to AMD.

I just re-installed my GTX580 card and got the following results:

Vegas 13

Playback without filters = 29.970 - Playback with filters = 29.970

Render 5 minutes of the video = 6 minutes and 9 seconds

 

Vegas 14

Playback without filters = 29.970 - Playback with filters = varies from 16 to 20 fps

Render 5 minutes of the video = 7 minutes and 24 seconds

 

I rendered using the Sony template. Video quality of rendered videos is the same.

Source file is 4k with a 1920x1080 project. I made certain that the smart resample was set to off.

There are no selections for GPU in the render settings and no system test in the template. This is also the case with Main Concept.

 

The filters were sharpen and Sony curves. Sony curves does nothing more than bring down the parts of the video above 235.

 

Before I reinstalled my GTX580 card, I was using the Intel Graphics. Vegas 14 timeline was better than Vegas 13. Render was faster with Vegas 13 than Vegas 14.

 

So with a GTX580 card, Vegas 13 is the better way to go.

 

Note: I installed the latest NVidia driver for Windows 10. I did not want to take any chances with any earlier versions. Also, I want the latest drivers for the most reliable tests.

 

Apparently Vegas 14 makes better use of the OpenCL when it comes to timeline playback and the Intel Graphics. It does not make the best use with the GTX580 card and/or the drivers for the GTX580 card does not make the best use of OpenCL and/or the GTX580 card does not have the best OpenCL and/or whatever it is.

 

I cannot afford to go out and buy anything right now anyway so I will have to stick with Vegas 13 and my GTX580 card for now.

 

Magix NEEDS to get rid of those black only icons! I am always guessing what they are. Maybe they have a great monitor of some kind where they can see them easily?

 

I hope this helps.

 

OldSmoke wrote on 9/27/2016, 9:40 AM

Vidmus

Did yiu enable the GPU acceleration in the internal tab for this test?

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: Intel DX79SR
Ram: G.Skill 8x4GB DDR3 2133 (running at 1600 and lower latency)
CPU: 3930K @ 4.3GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x ASUS Fury-X
Hard drives: 4x 2GB WD Red in RAID 5 (with Hot Spare), 2x Crucial 256GB SSD in RAID 0 (mulitcam project drive), 1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD (System), 1x Crucial 64GB SSD (temp files and swap file), 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner
PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM, 1x Sony HDTV 32" preview monitor

VidMus wrote on 9/27/2016, 3:50 PM

No, but I will give it a try and see what happens.

VidMus wrote on 9/27/2016, 5:14 PM

BULLS EYE!!!

With internal GPU render set to ‚ÄėTRUE‚Äô the choices for 'CPU Only' or¬†'Use GPU If Available' have returned. System test for GPU has also returned. Those choices are not there with the Intel Graphics even with the internal settings set for 'True'.

Render time is now 7 minutes and 0 seconds. Slightly faster but still slower than Vegas 13 because the GPU Accelerated FX’s such as (Sony) Color Curves and (Sony) Sharpen are not accelerated during playback with my GTX580 card.

Magix apparently has completely disabled GPU CUDA acceleration by default and decided to use the new memory thing instead. They are however still are using OpenCL? Maybe they did this as a temporary thing because of all the previously reported crashes and problems and until they get the GPU CUDA problems solved in a future version. And yet, some have reported crashes because of the new memory thing? HA! They cannot win for losing!

So with Vegas 14 and by default, Magix has eliminated GPU CUDA use altogether. GPU CUDA use can only be partially restored for rendering with the internal settings.

 

MAGIX_Eric D wrote on 9/27/2016, 6:15 PM

The following still applies if you use the above poster's solution:  GPU-accelerated rendering is not available for the Sony AVC/MVC format when using the latest drivers for NVIDIA Maxwell-based GPUs (such as the GeForce GTX 750 and GTX 970). GeForce 337.88 or Quadro/Tesla 341.05 (an R340 driver) or older is required for GPU-accelerated AVC rendering.

Modern GPU support is still in our backlog as something we want to take on and implement at some point.  We in customer support are not able to make iron clad promises as to the timeframe for this happening, but this is one of the features we receive the most feedback on. 

 

 

igniz-krizalid wrote on 9/27/2016, 7:07 PM

The following still applies if you use the above poster's solution:  GPU-accelerated rendering is not available for the Sony AVC/MVC format when using the latest drivers for NVIDIA Maxwell-based GPUs (such as the GeForce GTX 750 and GTX 970). GeForce 337.88 or Quadro/Tesla 341.05 (an R340 driver) or older is required for GPU-accelerated AVC rendering.

Modern GPU support is still in our backlog as something we want to take on and implement at some point.  We in customer support are not able to make iron clad promises as to the timeframe for this happening, but this is one of the features we receive the most feedback on. 

 

 


AMD Polaris here please, can you also optimize Vegas pro 14 for lastest i7 skylake using Quicksync acceleration for playback and do a better GPU implementation for third party plug ins? that it would be awesome!

Last changed by igniz-krizalid on 9/27/2016, 7:11 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Main PC:

MSI X370 Pro Carbon, R7 1800X, OC Nitro RX 480 4Gb, 2X8GB DDR4 3200 CL 14, 850 EVO 500GB SSD, Dark Rock 3 cooler, Dark Power Pro 11 650W Platinum, Serenade PciE CM8888 Sound Card, MultiSync 1200p IPS 16:10 monitor, Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Second PC:

Z170XP-SLI, i7 6700K, Nitro R9 380 4Gb, 2X8GB DDR4 3200 CL 16, MX200 500 SSD, MasterAir Pro 4 cooler, XFX PRO 650W Core Edition 80+ Bronze, Xonar D1 7.1 Ch Sound Card, NEC MultiSync 1200p IPS 16:10 monitor, Windows 10 pro 64bit

Fiola wrote on 9/28/2016, 4:01 AM

The following still applies if you use the above poster's solution:  GPU-accelerated rendering is not available for the Sony AVC/MVC format when using the latest drivers for NVIDIA Maxwell-based GPUs (such as the GeForce GTX 750 and GTX 970). GeForce 337.88 or Quadro/Tesla 341.05 (an R340 driver) or older is required for GPU-accelerated AVC rendering.

Modern GPU support is still in our backlog as something we want to take on and implement at some point.  We in customer support are not able to make iron clad promises as to the timeframe for this happening, but this is one of the features we receive the most feedback on.

Since this will be implemented in someday future. We will stay with Vegas Pro 13 - which works absolutely the same for our production needs (1080p production). When the acceleration of encoding will be ready for newer GPU's, please, let us know about it. We will pay to upgrade right away.

IAM4UK wrote on 9/28/2016, 8:20 AM

Use of the fastest hardware for display and for rendering is the missing element of Vegas that will get me to upgrade (assuming the software is not otherwise defective in some unacceptable way).

MAGIX_Eric D wrote on 9/28/2016, 9:25 AM

Here are two devices we have in house and how far we had to roll back for each to be recognized by Vegas and Movie Studio apps. 

GeForce GTX 745 - driver version 368.69
GeForce GT 730 - driver version 369.09

As you can see, we did not have to roll too far back for these devices, but the current drivers were not recognized. 

liork wrote on 9/28/2016, 9:25 AM

The following still applies if you use the above poster's solution:  GPU-accelerated rendering is not available for the Sony AVC/MVC format when using the latest drivers for NVIDIA Maxwell-based GPUs (such as the GeForce GTX 750 and GTX 970). GeForce 337.88 or Quadro/Tesla 341.05 (an R340 driver) or older is required for GPU-accelerated AVC rendering.

Modern GPU support is still in our backlog as something we want to take on and implement at some point.  We in customer support are not able to make iron clad promises as to the timeframe for this happening, but this is one of the features we receive the most feedback on. 

 

Rendering is so much important when editing 4K material. The rendering technology in the current VP 14 is not suited for 4K at all. That was the reason I bought the VP13 + 14 deal (without any trial to experience before buy) and if you say this is a fix for distant future than I have no use for this software.

Fiola wrote on 9/28/2016, 10:13 AM

Here are two devices we have in house and how far we had to roll back for each to be recognized by Vegas and Movie Studio apps. 

GeForce GTX 745 - driver version 368.69
GeForce GT 730 - driver version 369.09

As you can see, we did not have to roll too far back for these devices, but the current drivers were not recognized. 


I got GTX 1070 working as Acceleration of GPU in Options menu. But it is not working for rendering. Same as liork said, if this is distant future - we have kind of no use for this software. I am looking for faster rendering - the Vegas 13 actually without GPU rendering is pretty much the same as Vegas 14 (no offense). I know, that Vegas 14 have several mayor issues fixed and probably is more stable. Still it's not enough to convince me to update. I really hope you will try to figure something out.

For example: I can render faster in Adobe Premiere - the same material, like 6-8 times faster than actual Vegas 14. But I hate working in Premiere because AP doesn't have "s cut" and cool fast & easy editing as Vegas.

Please, look into it. The GPU acceleration of IDE is not the thing what's problem.