Comments

jaydeeee wrote on 1/28/2007, 10:25 AM
Yep, WinXP or XP-64.
Why on earth would one WANT Vista installed anyway...at anytime?
tomaras wrote on 1/29/2007, 11:04 PM
Kind of a stupid statement. Vista will be on millions of computers in a very short time including many thousands of Vegas user's computers. In a year or so you may be the only one still running XP on a high end computer. So you can either get with it and try to be helpful if you have any productive knowledge to share or your can continue with your apparent anti-Microsoft stance and ready yourself for FCP on your new Mac.

I'm also curious what your personal Vista experiences have been like so far as it's obvious from your statement that you know enough about the OS to make recommendations. What problems did you encounter in your testing of Vista and Vegas that caused you to draw such a strong anti-Vista stance?
Vocalpoint wrote on 1/30/2007, 7:37 AM
"Kind of a stupid statement."

Not a stupid statement at all. A smart statement

"Vista will be on millions of computers in a very short time including many thousands of Vegas user's computers."

Prove it

"In a year or so you may be the only one still running XP on a high end computer. "

I can guarantee I wil be running XP here in a year - so that's two people for sure.

"So you can either get with it and try to be helpful if you have any productive knowledge to share or your can continue with your apparent anti-Microsoft stance and ready yourself for FCP on your new Mac."

Get with what? Sony has announced nothing in the way of supporting Vista. Since when did we become tech support for a day old OS. If you are so well versed on Vista - just where is your productive knowledge on the question put forth.

"I'm also curious what your personal Vista experiences have been like so far as it's obvious from your statement that you know enough about the OS to make recommendations. What problems did you encounter in your testing of Vista and Vegas that caused you to draw such a strong anti-Vista stance?"

Me personally? 4.5 years of testing from early Longhorn builds to the RTM released in November. None of that changes anything. Without audio drivers (M-Audio Delta 1010 over here with NO mention of when even a beta might be available) and complete compatibility with ALL my apps - Vista is nothing but a coffee coaster at this point. And good luck getting Vegas to work.

Bottom line - Vista is a huge, unsupported (by many vendors) memory hog that really brings NOTHING special to the table that XP doesn't have except for more eye candy and more excessive bloat. The day I need 2GB free to install the OS is the day I pass. Plus - to truly get any use out of this thing - you will need to shell out for hardware - and a lot of it.

What's your point? You have Microsoft stock and can't handle criticism? Wake up, pal. Pretty much the entire business world (who were offered Vista in November 2006) have passed on it as well. It's a non-event. If this OS was truely worth getting excited about - that would have been very obvious a few months back.

VP
tomaras wrote on 1/30/2007, 10:38 PM
My point is that jaydee is going ballistic with anti-Vista rhetoric in many forums on this board. Any mention of Vista is met with his proclamation that it's a POS and will NEVER be useful. I'm not advocating a mass and instant migration for professional video and audio users to Vista. I've certainly kept my XP box as my main machine and run a dual boot configuration on my Vista box. That being said, there are a number of Vegas and Sound Forge users who are trying out Vista and his comments do absolutely NOTHING to help anyone. It's not me who has a vested interest in Vista it's he that appears to have a vested interest in seeing it fail.

I also might add that it's a bit disspointing knowing just how long Vista has been in beta, and now for a number of weeks as RTM to business, that Sony has made no official announcments of any fashion about Vegas and Sound Forge issues that may be encountered. You gotta think that they have at least tested it and have some preliminary obsverations that would be helpful to thier users who may be interested in early adoption or testing of thier own. Personally I've found no major issues with Sound Forge which I use all the time but have had mixed results with Vegas on two installs, but I only use vegas to preview and examine BWF audio files with more than two tracks.
Vocalpoint wrote on 1/31/2007, 7:18 AM
"I also might add that it's a bit disspointing knowing just how long Vista has been in beta, and now for a number of weeks as RTM to business, that Sony has made no official announcments of any fashion about Vegas and Sound Forge issues that may be encountered."

That would consitute "support" and Sony won't go there until they are darn good and ready - which unfortunately could take months. No vendor in their right mind will support a new OS on day 1.

"You gotta think that they have at least tested it and have some preliminary obsverations that would be helpful to thier users who may be interested in early adoption or testing of thier own. "

Oh - I am sure - it's installed in the bowels of Sony Madison - but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that Sony has made number of moves in their app planning that rely on older technology - especially with Media Manager (using MSDE) which will never be supported by Vista and most likely a number of other major changes that will need to be coded, tested etc etc.

If I was Sony - I would keep a tight lip on Vista period until Vegas 8, Soundforge 9 etc etc are ready. There is no point wasting dev resources to retrofit Vegas 7 for Vista since they will certainly be many other issues keeping users from moving anyway - like drivers.

Over here - my entire recorded output relies on my trusty M-Audio Delta 1010 - but M-Audio hasn't issued a single sentence on whether they are even considering a Vista driver for this interface. Even if they mentioned it today - it would take 9 months to mature and be stable enough to rely on.

On the converse - their XP driver is king - and the singular reason that this interface is probably the most reliable piece of gear I have. I cannot recall ever having even the smallest issue with it. Can't say that about a lot of gear these days.

I should also state that much of my Vista opinion comes from a "working pro" kinda view. My studio has deliverables to clients and clients certainly do not care what OS I am using - they do care about my ability to deliver. So even considering something like Vista in my shop - is suicide for my workflow.

As of this writing - it's an unsupported platform with no driver support. Why would anyone care - until such time that it can really be used properly?

VP



tomaras wrote on 1/31/2007, 5:53 PM
I appreciate your thoughtful and honest contribution and I agree with most all of your observations.

I still think that given an OS launch of such magnitude with the impending advertising blitz and the fact that nearly ALL of the PC Box vendors are now selling Vista equipped PCs as standard, Sony should advise thier customers not by total silence but instead with some sort of compatiblity statement. If their software will not perform properly on Vista they should issue a technical statement of some sort. I'd be curious how many VISTA queries they have received in knowlege base and forum searches. I'm sure it's a high enough number to warrant addressing it in some way. As of today there is absolutely nothing.
Vocalpoint wrote on 1/31/2007, 6:36 PM
"I still think that given an OS launch of such magnitude with the impending advertising blitz and the fact that nearly ALL of the PC Box vendors are now selling Vista equipped PCs as standard, Sony should advise their customers not by total silence but instead with some sort of compatibility statement. "

Again - Sony cannot be bothered with Microsoft or magnitude or advertising or PC Box vendors. Sony cares about Sony. End. Stop. And as far as a compatibility statement - not only do they NOT have support Vista - their system requirements for Vegas are clearly listed all over the place - and I quote:.

"Microsoft® Windows® 2000 SP4, XP Home, or XP Professional (Windows XP SP2 required for HDV and XDCAM)"

There is nothing more to say. Like any other vendor - they will decide when (or if) they will support Vista. Don't be too crushed if it takes what seems like a real long time.

"If their software will not perform properly on Vista they should issue a technical statement of some sort. "

Well - nah - It's much easy to tow the "corporate" line and say nothing. Any mention of anything that could be construed into being official means they will be scrambling to train their support crew...recode existing apps...blah blah...Sony didn't get as big as they are by worrying about Microsoft deciding to release a new OS.

They could care less right now - as any decent vendor should. It's way easier just to say - "Read the system requirements - here are the operating systems we officially support". Which is - actually - 100% acceptable to me - at this time.

"I'd be curious how many VISTA queries they have received in knowledge base and forum searches. I'm sure it's a high enough number to warrant addressing it in some way. As of today there is absolutely nothing."

Vista is too new for any vendor to throw out the support welcome mat just yet.. They will all come around but with the vast installed XP base - it's easy to wait for the other guy to offer support first and watch what happens.

Sony will certainly join the fray at some point - but for me - it won't matter at all until Vista has at least one service pack and third party drivers are mature enough to trust.

VP
random_id wrote on 2/1/2007, 9:13 AM
Here is my viewpoint...
1. If Sony cares about Sony, they will support Vista and soon. Sony's products are great, but they are geared and priced for both the pro and consumer markets. If they wanted to, they could easily make a crazy "Samplitude-type" price scheme to price out the consumer market. This, however, is not Sony's plan. Ever since the infamous $99 intro offers from years past (which is how I got hooked on these products anyhow), Sony is going for a higher-volume pro and non-pro markets.
So, that being said, within a short time, many thousands of consumers will have Vista on their brand new Dells. They will be installing Acid Studio and Vegas Movie Studio. They will not tolerate a statement that says "made for old operating systems only." And since we all know that under the hood, all of these products are the same, Vista support is an inevitability.
2. If you have a system that works, great. If you are trying out Vista, great. Comments such as, "wait a year until it is more stable" are meaningless if no one is using Vista. It only gets better if people find the problems and discuss them.
3. Vegas 7 and Acid 6 work great on my Vista RC2 x64. I haven't tested out everything, but they work great. Yeah, I have had some issues, but NO MORE than when I ran 2000 or XP SP2.
4. Besides, shouldn't we all still be running 98SE light, or learning command line editing for Linux?
5. I am an idiot, no need to reply to tell me what I already know.
6. I love Vegas and Acid. It makes me a better composer/musician...and in the end, that is what is important to me.
Vocalpoint wrote on 2/1/2007, 11:08 AM
" Sony is going for a higher-volume pro and non-pro markets."

Pro markets don't upgrade anything just because "it's there". Stability is key. Something Vista is not even close to be able to offer at this point.

Non-Pros? Well...

"Within a short time, many thousands of consumers will have Vista on their brand new Dells. They will be installing Acid Studio and Vegas Movie Studio. They will not tolerate a statement that says "made for old operating systems only."

Any idiot that buys an "unsupported" piece of software for their new "Vista" enabled Dell...gets exactly what they have coming to them. Not tolerate? Sony will laugh all day at you as they clearly point to the system requirements page for their current apps.

"Vista support is an inevitability."

Of course it is - but after Sony does a lot of fixes and probably calls these new fixes by a new version number - so not in the next few months.

"I love Vegas and Acid. It makes me a better composer/musician...and in the end, that is what is important to me."

Right on! This is best message to come out of all of this. If Vegas and Acid are allowing you to be a better composer - who gives a good s*** what OS they are running on.

I often think about this topic - and you know - even with all the Vista crap etc etc...when I am working away and doing some good stuff...I NEVER think about the OS....why would one care? As long as it's up and running...and allowing me to work steady...2000, XP...whatever.

Cheers!

VP
Paul Mead wrote on 2/1/2007, 11:20 AM
Wow, as illuminating as the previous posts may be, I don't think any of them contributed to answering the question in the original post.

Oh, and being in the sw development business myself, I can tell you that for the company I work for -- a very big one -- we definitely have thoughts and plans for new OS releases. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect a product line that is completely dependent on a single OS platform to be more transparent on future plans. I'm surprised by the deafening silence that eminates from Madison on just about everything having to do with Vegas. No plans announced, very little contributed to any customer forums (excepting this one, perhaps), a variable and somewhat unimpressive customer support function. What's going on? Did they get all their funding cut or something?

Ooops, got off-topic again. Sorry...
jaydeeee wrote on 2/1/2007, 2:53 PM
Sorry, i don't visit this audio forum enough (another assumption all vegas users now went to the video section).

Sorry for my short answer RDNZL - but it still stands. Vocalpoint is a 1000% on target in the replies (thank you. BTW, I too have 2 delta 1010's for the home studio sys - and I'm sure that will also play into my vista avoidance even if/when they come through with a response).

Another short answer (and more prudent to content creators like Vegas users here): Vista offers ZERO in terms of benefits to users here (content creation/editors/etc.).

In fact it's a step back in performance. I don't know about you but I've got work to do and the words that interest me in an OS are performance, streamline, compatibility, and stability.
This is nowhere to be found in this INANE OS "upgrade". There is nothing of real interest (other than the useless/flashy UI graphics - if that's what floats your boat) or benefit over XP/XP-64.
Therefore, you saw my short response.

I live in the great NWest, have worked for and at that campus they call M$.
I've beta tested this crapola for long enough (not with any of MY systems mind you - no way in hell), and my findings are solid - this POS OS "upgrade" is designed for those who know no better. Plain and simple.

It's a joke. I'm sorry, but it is.

Can I ask you something tomaras? What do you do with your time? Test MS products/OS or WORK IN CONTENT CREATION or the like with your system(s)?
If the answer is the latter then I'd LOVE to hear how Vista has improved your workflow, cause I'm not here to play guinea pig to this RIDICULOUS OS - you go right ahead.
I don't have the f'n time (nor care) to move forward with this inane OS when it's offering ZERO reason to do so (and every reason not to).

but good luck with it just the same

Vocalpoint wrote on 2/1/2007, 4:47 PM
Paul,

"I don't think any of them contributed to answering the question in the original post."

Well - only Sony can do that. But this OS is unsupported so are you surprised at no answer?

"I'm surprised by the deafening silence that emanates from Madison on just about everything having to do with Vegas. "

I'm not - they have been very forth coming with all releases including the current one. They have clearly laid out what's supported and what's not. What silence are you referring to? They have also laid down 4 nice maintenance updates on a regular basis - much better than some othe vendors I use.

" No plans announced, very little contributed to any customer forums (excepting this one, perhaps), a variable and somewhat unimpressive customer support function. What's going on? Did they get all their funding cut or something?"

Well - what plans should they announce? They won't show their hand at all on Vegas 8.0 until it's real close to release...which would be surprisingly fast since most Vegas releases are on about an 18 month cycle. 7.0 is only a year old if that.

And when they do announce a new version or whatever - I am sure Vista support will be in there somewhere.

Take the silence as a clue. It's obvious that there are a bunch of things in the existing apps that need fixing before any mention of Vista can be made. Plus - I am dead certain the 8.0 is well underway. Add it all up...and you will see a new version of Vegas by summer with Vista support.

VP
tomaras wrote on 2/1/2007, 4:54 PM
In answer to your personal questions.....

I also live in Seattle and I work as a location sound mixer for film and video. I frequently work for Microsoft but mostly when working for Production Company Vendors who are working for Microsoft. I record both directly to professional video cameras and also record master audio in the Broadcast Wave format with SMPTE timecode on field recorders (Sound Devices 744t) so my interests in Vegas are primarily to have the ability to examine and audition multi-channel BWF with timecode. It does not directly play into my active delivery of files nor my cash flow so I am afforded a little more room to play around with my installation.

I was a Vista beta tester and I worked my way through 4 builds in the last year up to RTM. I never would suggest that someone upgrade their OS in the middle of a production cycle on the machine that pays the bills. I took issue with your numerous posts on these forums where you summarily pass off the next OS that the majority of Vegas and Sound Forge users will end up using as worthless bloat. You are not being helpful to anyone in the least with comments like that. If you honestly feel that Vista is a dead end, then you should be advocating for everyone to move to a different platform because Windows is or will soon be Vista both for the majority of users and more importantly for all future versions of Vegas and Sound Forge.

If you have experiential knowlege of Vista and incompatibilities with Vegas I'd appreciate specifics instead of what you provided. Video playback stutters because of such and such and you should wait for the such and such drivers before giving it a test. etc etc.

Didn't mean to start a war, but you sure have been screaming the anti-Vista rhetoric loudly without providing any specific content to back up your yells..which may indeed have some foundation. If you have a message, I think it gets lost if not presented in a constructive manner. If you have tested Vegas with Vista, tell us what happened. If not, then maybe you shouldn't be responding to people asking for Vista related help.
Peter Vred wrote on 2/1/2007, 8:55 PM
Rdnzl,
Do you think anyone will ever offer you an answer to your question?
:)
ziggly wrote on 2/2/2007, 4:11 AM

correct me if I’m wrong
the man asked for ANY solution….

and he got two “WinXP or XP-64”

the implication being, install a OS that’s currently supported.
now, granted this may not have been the answer/solution/ reply
that RDNZL was looking for…but hey, it’s the one he got.

“Do you think anyone will ever offer you an answer to your question?
:)” Peter Vred

cut the sarcasm Peter.
what part of Jaydeeee’s solution did you not understand?
the WinXP? or the XP-64?

[EDIT] Rdnzl click on preferences then click the tab
that says Vst and make sure you have the current
folder with your Vst’s selected then click Refresh/Re-scan.
hope that helps.
ziggly wrote on 2/2/2007, 4:13 AM
P.s Sony reps will be the final word on this matter
but as far as I’m concerned , until the drivers arrive it’s betaware.

right now Feb 2nd 2007 all Vista users are beta testers.

Bottom line. until the first service pack arrives it’s betaware. :)

Rdnzl wrote on 2/2/2007, 5:41 AM
No, I don't think anybody will, maybe except Ziggly:
I've tried that, and I've tried moving the VST-files into another folder on another disc, but Vegas can't still find them.
Vocalpoint wrote on 2/2/2007, 6:56 AM
"If not, then maybe you shouldn't be responding to people asking for Vista related help"

Another way to look at it is that since the product is clearly NOT supported at this time - maybe people should refrain from asking for Vista related help and keep their "test" activities to themselves?

I am totally blown away by the amount of people that get hold of Vista - that is supported by NO ONE - and for kicks - they attempt to install a Vegas or a Forge against it - and when it burns down - they come in here looking for real support?

This is same as asking why Vegas won't run on Linux or the Mac or whatever

For Rdnzl:

Until such time that Vista support actually appears under "system requirements" on the box - the only answer to any questions like these is XP or XP64 - there is nothing else to say.

VP
Rdnzl wrote on 2/2/2007, 9:53 AM
"For Rdnzl:
Until such time that Vista support actually appears under "system requirements" on the box - the only answer to any questions like these is XP or XP64 - there is nothing else to say.
VP "

Well, there's a lot more to say, because I found out of it by myself, and it was quite simple, so now it works. Maybe one day I'll tell you folks in this forum about it, even if most of the answers I got was rubbish!

jaydeeee wrote on 2/2/2007, 2:17 PM
>>>I was a Vista beta tester<<<

(sounds of tires screeching to a halt)
Ah, I get it now ;)

BTW: anybody running Vista right now is (still) a beta tester.
IMO - Vista is a joke. Plain and simple.

Tomaras, you do whatever you want to, but really there's not much more I can say on the matter. I suggested bagging on Vista and getting to work.
Paul Mead wrote on 2/2/2007, 4:21 PM
Hey Rdnzl, good for you! After seeing all the blood that got spattered here I can understand why you would be reluctant to share, but I for one am curious about the solution, so maybe after you have licked your wounds for a bit you can share with those who were more sympathetic to your endeavor.

I can understand reluctance to take on a new OS version, but the vituperation is mystifying to me.

Oh, and just to set the record straight, since my last post wasn't that friendly to our friends at Sony, I am absolutely thrilled to work with a product with the quality of Vegas -- I truly do enjoy using it. But, there is always something that could be better. Knowing what to expect from your vendor is a reasonable thing to ask for, IMO. Even "we don't know" is better than nothing.
Rdnzl wrote on 2/3/2007, 2:47 AM
Hi Paul, you are one of the few persons in this discussion who stays serious, so I will share with you (don't tell any others - hehe).

It's as simple as "Run as administrator" the first time, then go to Options > Preferences > VST Effects > Refresh and voila! There you are. The clue here is Administrator, the next time you run as a standard user, all the VST Effects are available. This works in both Vegas 6 and 7.

To the people in here who hate Vista without even trying it: Maybe you should go for Win 2000? Or even 98SE? And Vegas 3.0 or 4.0? Everything was better in those days?

(Sorry for my bad English, I'm not from a country where English is the native language).
random_id wrote on 2/3/2007, 1:35 PM
Thanks for finding that out.
I am in the process of installing Vista (from Vista RC2). Now if I run into that problem, I'll be able to fix it....actually, that gets me thinking. What if there was a place where Vegas users could get together? Then they could share problems and solutions. I don't know, some kind of "forum."
Oh right, that is what this is.
By the way, I hope you are only using "Sony-approved and certified" VSTs. You wouldn't want to try something unsupported. You might have a problem.
jaydeeee wrote on 2/4/2007, 5:56 AM
>>To the people in here who hate Vista without even trying it: Maybe you should go for Win 2000? Or even 98SE? And Vegas 3.0 or 4.0? Everything was better in those days?<<

I don't need to move to Vista, I HATE it...especially after having tested it. How about XP/XP-64 and Vegas 6 or 7 and getting to work? That sound good?