Wavehammer settings

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/17/2006, 8:32 AM

I use wavehammer a LOT, but I am one of those Luddites whos terrified to put ANYTHING on the master buss

If its distorting, how fast do you have the release set? Or is the volume maximizer distorting?

songsj wrote on 1/17/2006, 7:30 PM

I believe I disabled the volume maximizer,i think the release is set at the defaults, something like 150, If the volume maximizer is enabled I probably have it set at the defults. I also have Wave Hammer on a few individual rack tom tracks to even things out, could the two of them being used together be causing the problem?

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/17/2006, 8:45 PM

maybe, for anything bassy, even 150 ms might distort, see if it smooths out with a longer release

rraud wrote on 1/19/2006, 10:38 AM

With excessive amounts of limiting, WH-Vol max. will induce distortion.

songsj wrote on 1/19/2006, 7:17 PM

As I think back as to the order of how I added FX it seems to me like it must be the Wave Hammer, I was using the default settings for 16bit master and default for Volume Maximixer, I have backed them off a bit and the recording has gotten a little softer but not really any cleaner, I think I'm going to disable the Wavehammer and burn a cd to play on various players to see if the distortion goes away. Hopefully it will and then I can go forward from there..

rraud wrote on 1/20/2006, 5:10 PM

If you hear distortion in SF, you will most likley hear it when burned to a CD.
I find that WH vol. max starts to distort with 4dB or more of gain reduction, + or -, depending on the source material of course. You may try expermenting with RMS normallizing or try another maximizer like the Waves L1 or L2 .

songsj wrote on 1/24/2006, 1:31 AM

Thanks, I will try that, I'm definatly at 5 to 6 db on the wave hammer settings. I was also going to ask if there is a quality set of mastering software out there that won't break the bank. I know the words quality and inexpensive rarly belong in the same sentence but I thought I'd ask. I also could use a lead on a good reverb package that won't break me???

Thanks

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/24/2006, 10:59 AM

If you are willing to choke the CPU, there is an AWESOME free reverb, that I would compare with hardware ANY day, and in fact to me is by far the best synthesis reverb available as a plugin period

Grab the reverb : Ambience http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/

If you are willing to use a convolution reverb SIR is also free, and pretty light on the CPU (for a convo). Almost any impulse imaginable for it is available at www.noisevault.com

Get SIR at http://www.knufinke.de/sir/index_en.html

rraud wrote on 1/24/2006, 6:07 PM

Mastering: Practice and experience will yield better results than throwing money at any one particular high-end mastering plug-in.
And as Pipe suggested, The SIR with some nice Lexicon (or other) impulses, sound incredible. But again, one must know how to use them to get pro results.
That's why tracking, mixing and mastering engineers get the big bucks.
Good luck and have fun expermenting.

songsj wrote on 1/25/2006, 10:11 PM

Okay, I've downloaded the SIR and a bunch of reverbs, do I install them in the Vegas VST folder and is the SIR download the program that actually runs the reverbs, also I noticed that many are 16bit 44.1
My project media is 24 bit 44.1 and that is also the setting I'm using in properties, will this be a problem? Sorry for all the questions, just soooo much to learn and not a lot of places to go for help. Also will these be assignable to several tracks at once and show up in FX windows just like the stock Vegas plugins??
Thanks,
Jeff

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/26/2006, 3:30 AM

Just right click the mixer and "insert fx" then choose the SIR plugin

Unzip the impulse files to wherever you like, just scroll to that folder when you open SIR and choose the impulse you want. Dont worry that theyre 16 bit, youll be fine

songsj wrote on 1/27/2006, 3:48 AM

Thanks for all the great info. I really am getting frustrated with this mild distortion thing, I tried turning all my channel faders down some and the master up a bit, no dice, I've played with the wave hammer settings and can't seem to find a setting that works, I'm starting to think it's something else, and the tracks were not overdriven when recorded. I'm about ready to mute all FX except eq and see if that gets rid of it, if it does I'll add them one at a time until I find it, what a pain in the butt. Whatever it is gives the ears a sound like mild analog distortion like when we turn our car radios up just a wee bit too loud. Sounds like the whole recording and not just one track but I suppose one screwed up track could cause the whole thing to break up a bit. Again it's not terrible just not as clean as what I'm used to, and for my liking not acceptable, I gotta figure this out before I'm forced to leave Vegas broke!! LOL!!!

songsj wrote on 1/27/2006, 5:20 AM

Sorry to be such a pain in the A## but I downloaded a bunch of the lexicon reverbs and they show up as an internet Explorer file and will not open with SIR. What have I done wrong? Looks like SIR wants .wav files and I can't seem to convert them.

rraud wrote on 1/27/2006, 4:16 PM

SIR: Do the impulses have the .wav extension..

Distortion: Try lowering your soundcard's output level a bit. You maybe overdriving some hardware component, which was not audible before increasing the average level with WH.

songsj wrote on 1/27/2006, 4:42 PM

The files show up as a .rar extension, this is the way they downloaded, I haven't been able to open them so I can't do a save as .wav. Any ideas? I will check the sound card levels but the cds I burn have the distortion too, the sound card would not effect that would it?

songsj wrote on 1/27/2006, 4:48 PM

I did go into the file and change the extension from .rar to .wav and it still will not open in SIR the error message says it is not a .wav file.

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/27/2006, 5:26 PM

Only download the ones that say "pipelineaudio" on them :)

Nah, likely the problem is that they are Rar'ed instead of zipped

http://www.rarlab.com/

Try that and see if they work

songsj wrote on 1/29/2006, 9:03 PM

That did the trick, I used one of the Plates on a female vocal and it sounded really nice. A few more questions,

1. When using compression is the goal or standard practice to keep the compressor input and output levels out of the red and adjust your comp ratio and db level accordingly and use the track faders to increase/decrease the volume level in the mix? Or is it okay to have the input and out put levels on the compressors peaking in the red most of the time?

2. Same question for Wavehammer and other effects? Same question for master levels?

3. Do you usually Normalize all of your tracks individually before you mix or do you only Normalize tracks that have sections that are too soft and need the volume level increased?

4. Is there such a thing as Normalizing the entire song after the mix is finished [ Not to be confused with a Pro mastering job, but a standard function of the Vegas software that is usually done before burning a CD?

Thanks A bunch!! I'm having way too much fun!!! You guys here are a great resource and a big help.

Jeff

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/29/2006, 9:17 PM

"1. When using compression is the goal or standard practice to keep the compressor input and output levels out of the red and adjust your comp ratio and db level accordingly and use the track faders to increase/decrease the volume level in the mix? Or is it okay to have the input and out put levels on the compressors peaking in the red most of the time?"

It seems to be standard practice in modern records and among Conservatory/Mixmag/Digidesign guys to keep them in the red in the hopes ofr making it distorted and messed up so it will be "more Phat Ill Yo"

I would keep them out of the red. Track Compressor is important to be conservative with levelwise as the attack is a little strange. I'd like to say slow, but its not really accurate, maybe "late" is the right term. Be careful with the auto gain compensation, as it can send those peaks through the roof

"2. Same question for Wavehammer and other effects? Same question for master levels?"

I am almost personally NEVER thrilled about going over 0dBFS. We arent talking tape here

"3. Do you usually Normalize all of your tracks individually before you mix or do you only Normalize tracks that have sections that are too soft and need the volume level increased?"

Usually just the sections that need a boost, and Ill grab the event volume line and drag it down to fit

"4. Is there such a thing as Normalizing the entire song after the mix is finished [ Not to be confused with a Pro mastering job, but a standard function of the Vegas software that is usually done before burning a CD?"

Youcan right click and normalize the finished 2 track if you want. I do it all the time for burning send home copies for clients. I wouldnt do it on the one you send to the lab

songsj wrote on 1/30/2006, 12:43 AM

PipelineAudio,
You are my mentor, As I was trying to get rid of the mild distortion problem I am having I got to thinking there may not be a silver bullet. [ It my not be just one thing but several little things},
Several of my track compressors were banging the red pretty hard,
II have fixed most of those and will now check and adjust all the others. It will be interesting to see if that cleans things up some, shutting Wavehammer off did but it may have just been magnifying
a problem that was already there. My redbooks don't have to be as loud as a store bought CD but I would like to get close. The style of music I work with is usually Country / pop and a Holiday CD so the volume doesn't have to rip your head off, just be close to store bought without sounding too squashed.
More questions ,

1.Do I use the render function to make a 2 track mix and will that be a seperate file / project or can I import the two track file into the existing project on seperate tracks and just solo them for CD burning?

2. How do I create stereo tracks from 24 bit 44.1k mono tracks for SIR ect.

Thanks Again!!
Jeff

PipelineAudio wrote on 1/30/2006, 1:48 AM

"1.Do I use the render function to make a 2 track mix and will that be a seperate file / project or can I import the two track file into the existing project on seperate tracks and just solo them for CD burning?"

Hopefully youll get to hear a lot of different users' ways to do this here. Personally I will just hit "render to new track" (CTRL-M) and then when it is done Ill drop the resulting stereo track into a new vegas project and burn it from there. I can get whacky on the "mastering " stuff without messing up, or eating too much CPU in the main mix.

"2. How do I create stereo tracks from 24 bit 44.1k mono tracks for SIR ect."

are you talking about importing your own impulses? If theyre mono, just render them to a stereo track.

songsj wrote on 1/30/2006, 2:41 AM

It was either the SIR or Or another download page that said their impulses are stereo so if you have mono files you need to make a stereo file for full effect, my tracks are mono files.

Thanks,
Jeff

songsj wrote on 1/30/2006, 6:07 AM

Oh Boy, No matter what I do I cannot get the Wavehammer input signals from peaking into the red, even when I turn the master fader all the way down, I looked at the signal flow chart in the manual and there has to be something I am not getting here, I also don't quite get the FX busses, [ I'm used to FX send and receive on boards, how do I send specific signals to an effects bus and control the send and receive? Help Again, always appreciated greatly!!!

I am making headway!!

farss wrote on 1/31/2006, 5:13 AM

Well to start with the master fader is post the FXs.
Also if you apply any FXs at the track header they are PRE the track volume envelope, that really had me stumped for a while. One way to work aorund that is to send the track to a bus and apply the compression to the buss.
Another thing to consider, Eq, even a low or high cut creates gain at the corner frequency, again got me trapped. Reason is almost all Eqs emulate analogue devices which don't actually follow this neat looking little graphs.
So here's a simple scario that'll bring you unstuck.
Take a track recorded hot but not clipped, in the track header add some Eq and then WH using Master for 16 bit. Just tried it now, bingo, I'm clipping the input to WH by 2dB, NOT GOOD. Disable EQ, problem goes away.

Now if you want to apply WH to the overall mix and you apply it to the Master, the master fader is post the FX, moving it is going to do zip in terms of what WH sees. One simple fix I just tried. Add another Bus, assign all tracks to it (probably Bus A), now with the WH FX on the Master you can turn down the level going into WH by using the fader on Bus A.

Thing to bear in mind. WH using the Master for 16bit preset has the threshold set to -6dB, so anything coming in to it that's above -6dB will cause it to reduce the gain, hence you'll see the Input Gain Indicator go down, that's what a compressor is supposed to do. If you never see it doing that at any point in your track then (someone correct em if I'm wrong please) then you've never hit the threshold or knee of the compressor and it's just a waste having it there.

Final word of advice, make of it what you will. When I get muddled in the brain on either an audio or video project problem I abandon the project and build a new very simple one and then work back up the complexity all the time studying what's ahppening and how things are working. At some point I'll suddenly see the light and then know why my 'real' project is having a problem.
Bob.