What is V4 doing...?

VU-1 wrote on 2/5/2003, 2:00 PM
I opened a recent VV3 file (all audio) in V4 and played it....

V4 hesitates every 5 seconds or so while playing, VV3 plays it perfectly.

I am using Acoustic Mirror on an Effects Buss with the "quality" setting at 4. While VV3 has no problem with this, V4 won't play without problems unless I move the quality setting to 3. (VV3 doesn't like 5 on my computer. Its a speed issue, I'm sure.)

It makes me wonder.....what is V4 doing that VV3 didn't need to do (or maybe wasn't capable of doing - or maybe its the other way around....VV3 is more capable...)?

Doesn't really make a hill of beans on rendering, but makes dumping stuff on the fly impossible unless you're willing to compromise...

JL
OTR

Comments

LooneyTunez wrote on 2/5/2003, 3:22 PM
It seems others are having similar issues (including myself) with VV4 seeming more resource intensive than VV3. In another thread a SF rep stated that VV4 shouldn't be more resource intensive than VV3, but that benchmarks were still being performed to verify this. In my experience, big projects that run fine in VV3 seems to suffer from stuttering in VV4 (under the same conditions), so there is definitely something amiss here. I am really hoping that someone finds the offending code in VV4 and corrects it, because I'm loving all the newly added features of VV4. Keep up the good work SF!
bgc wrote on 2/5/2003, 4:06 PM
Performance issues seen in early beta versions of V4 have been fixed. It is as fast or faster than VV3 from my testing.
bgc
CDM wrote on 2/5/2003, 4:47 PM
agreed. Performace improved dramatically in the last few builds. It kicks butt now!
VU-1 wrote on 2/5/2003, 8:59 PM
Anyone have the link to the latest build...?
stusy wrote on 2/5/2003, 9:42 PM
Does it kick butt if you have 98SE, 1.7MHz AMD Athlon, 518MB DDRam, 2 hard drives@7200, and Aw2 soundcard (ASIO/MME but ASIO is not multi-client); I never saw posted the minimum requirements...at this point it's safe to assume within a year I'll have another cpu/mobo, but I'll be staying with 98SE...
pwppch wrote on 2/5/2003, 10:37 PM
Try the demo and judge for yourself.

Peter

VU-1 wrote on 2/5/2003, 11:19 PM
The build I have is 74. Is there a later beta than that...?
LooneyTunez wrote on 2/5/2003, 11:33 PM
FWIW, I am using build 74 as well, and am having the issues I described above.

Win2K
Dual Athlon MP 1700+ on Tyan Tiger MPX
512MB RAM
2 WD Special Edition 80MB drives on Promise TX2 (Raid 0)
M-Audio Delta 66
Latest drivers for everything
LooneyTunez wrote on 2/5/2003, 11:47 PM
Same issues in the final release demo (Build 115) as well.
VU-1 wrote on 2/6/2003, 12:51 PM
I noticed the bld 115 on the demo page as well, but was hoping to find a later bld as a beta version.

So what could Charlesdem be talking about when he says:

"agreed. Performace improved dramatically in the last few builds. It kicks butt now!"

??????
CDM wrote on 2/6/2003, 1:13 PM
well, I guess what I mean is that performance for me is better in build 115 than any other build of vegas ever has been, including vegas 1,2 and 3. I can open and play projects in v4 that stuttered slightly in v3.0c. I'm running windows xp pro sp1 with 512 megs of ram. I'm also running a dual athlon 1.7gHz machine.

Now, there is something to note - apparently due to the implementation of Input Monitoring, you may need to tweak your waves classic driver's buffer settings or your ASIO driver settings to get optimum performance.

Are you running this project off a firewire drive? Have you completely uninstalled the beta?
LooneyTunez wrote on 2/6/2003, 2:11 PM
I will try some more buffer tweaking with the 115 build, but it had no effect in the beta build(s). Not using a firewire drive in my setup.
PipelineAudio wrote on 2/6/2003, 2:28 PM
I accidentally ran two instances of acc mirror at quality setting number 5...didnt notice till I tried to add a third

and THIS is the machine that always has silly problems! unny thing itll skip on some smaller projects without mirror!
CDM wrote on 2/6/2003, 2:42 PM
you might want to send the problem project to the vegas4beta email
VU-1 wrote on 2/7/2003, 12:50 PM
>>you might want to send the problem project to the vegas4beta email<<

I sent a copy of my post to SF at the same time I posted it on the forum.

I have a 600MHz PIII w/384M RAM and all internal HDs and, using VV3, I have no problem running AcMirr with a setting of 4 on an FX buss while other plugs are being used (including PSP VW).

I open up this same project in V4 Beta-bld 74 and I get hesitation every few seconds. Change the AcMirr setting to 3 and it plays fine.

Charlesdem: When I asked what you are talking about, your post sounded like you were using later builds of the V4 beta. I could only find the one - bld 74. I suppose you are using a demo version....? I downloaded the bld 115 demo, but haven't tried it out yet. Will it run along side VV3 AND the V4 beta?

It appears, on my system at least, that V4 is a little bit more CPU hungry than VV3.

JL
OTR
CDM wrote on 2/7/2003, 1:10 PM
ahhhh. so you haven't tried build 115? Well, that explains it. Build 74 WAS more unstable and cpu hoggish. Believe me, between build 84 and build 99 it improved dramatically. (These were not public betas).
You should uninstall v4 beta and install the demo (yes, they will work side by side with V3).

I highly recommend pluncking down the $ for the upgrade. It's well worth it (as long as you find you can actually play that project you're talking about...) You want to send the project file to me and I'll relink it to data here in my studio?

Just a thought.

good luck
cdm
LooneyTunez wrote on 2/7/2003, 3:26 PM
Well, I've tried everything I can think of to get VV4 to perform as well as VV3, with no luck. I have even killed practically every running service in Win2K, with no improvement in the stuttering. The only conclusion I can come to at this point, is there is a problem with how VV4 and my Delta 66 communicate (BTW, I've tried various buffer settings on both VV4 and the Delta 66). Any other Win2K users with Delta 66 cards having similar issues? To reiterate the problems I'm expereincing...

A non-problematic mix in VV3 that uses an average of 60-70% processor, about half of my total RAM, and 20+ tracks, will cause severe stuttering in VV4 (BTW, it seems this same mix will actually use slightly less procesor power in VV4 than it does in VV3). If I disable all FX in VV4 the stuttering goes away. (Will have to see what happens if I just reduce the amount of FX)

Any ideas?

In addition to contacting the SF people about this, should I also see what M-Audio has to say?
CDM wrote on 2/7/2003, 3:45 PM
Are you using build 115? And, more importantly, are you running the ASIO drivers for the delta 66? I'm using the Delta1010 with NO problems with ASIO. Windows Classic is trickier because there are more setting to tweak.
LooneyTunez wrote on 2/8/2003, 5:19 PM
Using build 115, and not using ASIO, as that causes even more issues of stuttering and other noises.
CDM wrote on 2/8/2003, 5:36 PM
hmm. I'm stumped. I would suggest offering to send the project to the Vegas team. They like real-world projects to test with if you're willing, and they truly are invested in making Vegas as stable and lean-and-mean as possible.

If you want to email me the .veg file I'd be happy to link it to media on my drive to see if I can run it or see if it's perhaps project related.

Sorry you're having problems.

p.s. can you describe the project?
pwppch wrote on 2/8/2003, 6:24 PM
What is the DMA setting in the Delta Control panel set for?
What version of the Delta drivers are you using? (The actual driver version number reported by the Delta Control pannel.)

What is your buffer size in the Audio Device prefs page when using the Wave Classic Delta Drivers?
What are your settings for Number of buffers and Priority in the Advance Audio prefs dialog?

What ASIO buffer sizes where you working with that caused Vegas to skip and gap?

Peter
troven wrote on 2/9/2003, 2:50 PM
i've just upgraded from Vegas Audio 2.0 to Vegas 4.0 and i've been having the same stuttering, static blasts, and gapping problems. i'm on Win 98SE, PIII 600 256mb RAM using an Echo Layla 24 sound card. I've tried ASIO settings up to 16384 samples to no avail. My VA2 plays the same file perfectly. I've muted the video, turned off quantize to frames and tried to keep everything pure audio - Are there other settings I should turn off to make V4 more efficient?
PipelineAudio wrote on 2/9/2003, 4:27 PM
static blasts!!! THANK YO UTHANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!
this whole time Im thinking Im alone because I really am a problem case, but if you are getting them too, THANK YOU!!!!

I get mine

1. Sometimes when rendering a file, they become part of the render

2. using " open copy in sound forge" they sometimes become part of the copy

3. Hitting solo, unsolo, mute, or unmute sometimes

4. Just for the hell of it doing playback once in a while

do those sound familiar?

are you using RME soundcards by chance?
Geoff_Wood wrote on 2/9/2003, 6:40 PM
Pipeline, Sounds like your glitches above are on the 'record' side. Are they visible ?

geoff