Bob,
Are you saying that going from the Z1 to the EX is much harder? I've been working with the V1U for a couple years now, and I'm debating getting a couple EX1's or 3's at the right time.

Learning your way around a broadcast camera menu system is a bit like learning Photoshop.

Anyone can learn the basics in an hour, so they can do daily work.

They can then later add specific skills as needed for each project.

Total mastery takes a while longer (10 years is a good beginning :O).

given the speed of release of the new, low/mid level cams, it's darn near impossible to master anything.
You just learn some of the personalities, spend a day or two with charts, save what you like and learn to use those settings, or engineer situations where you're able to monitor well and set up the color that the client, DP, or situation calls for. Clients seem to be more savvy about creating a camera color stocks as well, at least one of our has become so.

"given the speed of release of the new, low/mid level cams, it's darn near impossible to master anything."

Amen and that's one reason I bought my own EX1. I figured by the time it was just too sad to keep using it I might have mastered some of it. I'm hoping I've got at least 4 years left :)

I am spending more money on glasses. Mike's Hood Pro is a big help. I see Varizoom have a remote focus control available, that is sure on my wish list.

Bob.

I'm not sure a boring videographer who talks too much is the best spokesperson for a format...

Why did you think he was boring? The clip examples? The focus on videographer use instead of drama use?

I thought that was quite a mouth-watering presentation, because it was focused, well planned, and well executed.

That guy should be in sales... :O)

I really agree with what Bob said about buying one to really get to know it. I would never rent a camera unless I knew it really well.

If I needed a camera I wasn't familiar with, I would get a DP owner/operator.

In L.A. it is often possible to hire a medium experienced DP with his own camera for the same amount as just renting the camera at one of the big shops.

We own 6 EX1's, love em'. Use em' daily. But I'd not say any of us has it "mastered." There are just too many variables. A good field monitor, calibrated, and storage of scenes is beautiful, but we've found ourselves migrating to 2-3 profiles and tweaking as needed.

I really don't need him to tell me that this teaser clip is not as comprehensive as the actually training DVD... I mean he think i'm stupid? There is just so much stuff that's geared towards total amateurs in this presentation -- it's one of those things where the actually video is well done and sounds great but is sooooooooooo boring it's unwatchable.

LOL.

There are a lot of professional videographers who don't have a good understanding of the differences between say XDCAM HQ and AVC Intra (where he made a very good point that AVC Intra would have to rise to 140 Mbps to begin to match XDCAM at 35 Mbps), and the practical work day flash card comparisons between SxS and P2, etc.

Even many old pros don't know these things beyond having read Panny's ads that say P2 is the future (even though it uses a 1980s card format that is no longer used in laptops), and that Panny's equivalent EX1-priced HD camera is so much better than any HD camera from Sony (even though its CCDs have only half the resolution of the CCDs in my Sony standard definition broadcast camera. Really!).

It's good to get some clarification on these things from an experienced shooter, and when it comes to presenting facts, boring is OK.

You raised more valid talking point in your 2 paragraphs then that video did in it's first 1/4 (beyond which i stopped watching). You should be their spokesperson!

" Panny's equivalent EX1-priced HD camera is so much better than any HD camera from Sony (even though its CCDs have only half the resolution of the CCDs in my Sony standard definition broadcast camera. Really!)." ;-) Sooo right on, CD! FARSS and SPOT, excellent points and I hope everyone understands its a continuous battle with the new "prosumer" camera technology in execution ;-) But I do love the new toys ;-)

frankly i liked my 400 sp rig. there was so little to do to set up quickly for any situation - and i learnt ALL the controls and options within a week.

i'm still playing with my v1p after three years (?), and still surprising myself with the results!

that said, i shoot client material WITHOUT any in camera massaging - any cc, profiling, etc., all that can, and will be done in post.

leslie

Well the video is a power point presentation and set out to define what is good about tapeless video and Sony's implementation of the technology. Most power point presentations lack excitement and are designed to impart information. I'd say it succeeded in that. Sure if you're using the HDCAM systems you won't discover anything new and I did skip a little, but if one is still adhering to tape then I think the points well made and illustrated. Bit hard to criticise what you haven't watched.

From my brief contact with pro cameramen I get the impression there's two ways things get done.

1) We shoot to get the best image and massage it in post. We protect as much of it as we can. It might look a bit flat or whatever but we know we can choose to tweak it or not.

2) You're one of those people who does nothing but operate a camera and light. The client / agency wants a certain 'look' and you get paid to deliver that on tape / disk / neg. At the end of the day you hand over the tape and get your cheque and move onto the next job.

I suspect these two differing ways of working might explain some of the confusion over picture profiles and the various ways the advanced cameras let you adjust the image in camera.

Bob.

Yes, a lot of Leslie's and Bob's comments resonate with me. As I've said before, I'm basically an editor who shoots, but I like to think I'm slowly getting better.
Since buying the EX1 a year and a bit ago, the camera sort of makes me think more photographically, just because of the subtle things it can capture.
Although I have a few Picture Profiles stored, I still tend to shoot without them, but I'm waiting for a job with a bit of "artistic licence", so I can give it a certain "look".
It's a great feeling though, knowing that this camera can record such a quality picture.

I have had my EX1 since last July, but I haven't used it much. There are two reasons for that:
1. The number one issue with the camera I see on DVInfo EX forums is trying all different (yet unsuccessful) ways to get decent looking SD video DVDs from footage shot with the EX1. Since that is my primary delivery media I am still using the VX2000 for anything important.

2. I thought Vegas 9 would be out by now so I didn't buy Vegas 8.

But the first one is the biggest issue.

John

John, I'm delivering stunning SD footage from my EX3 using Vegas Pro 8. And it's as easy as shooting and editing in SD. There's really no reason why you can't.

John, I'm delivering stunning SD footage from my EX3 using Vegas Pro 8. And it's as easy as shooting and editing in SD. There's really no reason why you can't.
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You participate in the DVInfo forums so I assume you have seen this issue discussed a lot.

Have you posted your camera settings and work flow somewhere Jay?

If so, can you link it so I can read it?

Thanks,

John

Yes, I will see if I can find it. Will post here as an "edit."

EDIT:

Rather than post a link, I just copied my post...

Not having read the entire thread, I stopped at Paul's reply, to say I too use Vegas (Pro 8) and I can't imagine anything being any more simple. I'm not here to bang the drum for Vegas. Vegas will NOT work for everyone, just as the EX cameras will not.

Insofar as camera settings are concerned, I'm not certain what's used in an EX3 will work in an EX1 and vice versa. That said, here the profile I'm using (this came from DP Doug Jensen):

Matrix setting: On
High SAT
Level: +3
Detail: On
Gamma: Cine4
Black: -3
Black Gamma: -2

Hope this helps.

(Forgot to mention the Gain is set at -3.)

Yes, I will see if I can find it. Will post here as an "edit."
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Thanks Jay. I would really appreciate that.

John

John, check the post above.

Thanks Jay,

I'll try those settings.

I am assuming this is HQ 1920 x 1080 60i?

Any "halos" with Detail On?

Regards,

John