What's up with H.265?

megabit wrote on 9/25/2016, 1:10 AM

So I tried the long awaited H.265 codec - and yes, VP 14 can render to it (in the MOV container), bat as for reading - it only seems to be able to recognize it's own rendered clips! Even a HEVC clip rendered out from Mercalli 4.0 SAL is not recognized, and only the audio track is loaded... What am I missing?

Piotr

Comments

GJeffrey wrote on 9/25/2016, 1:18 AM

I can read hevc mp4 rendered with x265 codec on VP14.

 

megabit wrote on 9/25/2016, 3:12 AM

I can read Vegas own renders, too....

GJeffrey wrote on 9/25/2016, 3:19 AM

This render is not done by Vegas... This is a mp4 file, not mov file.

To be clear, I can read hevc file with Vp14 which are not rendered with Vegas.

So your problem might come from Mercalli. Have you tried with other hevc files encoded with any software except Mercalli and Vegas?

Grazie wrote on 9/25/2016, 3:30 AM

MAGIX and ProDAD are partners.

Grazie

PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti

PC 10 64-bit 64gb * Intel® Core™i9 - 3.3GHz * 40Gb NVIDIA  GeForce RTX 2070

Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX60HS Bridge

GJeffrey wrote on 9/25/2016, 4:05 AM

Just made a test an indeed Vegas can't read HEVC file made with Mercalli.

On the below screenshot, MediaInfo from 3 HEVC file: left Mercalli, middle Vegas, right free x265 encoder program (Staxrip).

 

It seems that the codec ID reported by MediaInfo is different for Mercalli file (hev1) compare to Vegas and Staxrip (hvc1).

So for me the problem is Mercalli not Vegas.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/25/2016, 4:57 AM

Samsung NX1 files can be read and those files are HEVC, as said to Piotr in another thread. Mercalli output is no camera format, so why should Vegas read that?

BruceUSA wrote on 9/25/2016, 10:58 AM

Samsung NX1 files can be read and those files are HEVC, as said to Piotr in another thread. Mercalli output is no camera format, so why should Vegas read that?


Indeed, VP14 playback H265 from Samsung camera really well.   91 clips total file size 70GB imported into VP14 timeline work very nice. 

NormanPCN wrote on 9/25/2016, 11:34 AM

Samsung NX1 files can be read and those files are HEVC, as said to Piotr in another thread. Mercalli output is no camera format, so why should Vegas read that?

What is the definition of a "camera format"? 

set wrote on 9/25/2016, 7:34 PM

I assume "Camera Format" as the movie / media / video files created by most standard camera available in the market.

Nick Hope wrote on 9/26/2016, 4:45 AM

Why should VEGAS be limited to reading "camera formats", whatever they are? Is that advertised somewhere? A lot of users bought VEGAS to edit files created by other means than cameras.

GJeffrey wrote on 9/26/2016, 5:05 AM

Why should VEGAS be limited to reading "camera formats", whatever they are? Is that advertised somewhere? A lot of users bought VEGAS to edit files created by other means than cameras.

👍. 

After further testing, HEVC footage can be read by Vegas only if they are flagged as hvc1, not hev1 (info from mediainfo).

So far Mercalli and Handbrake flag the files as hev1. X265 encoder (used in Megui for example) & Vegas own h265 encoder flag the file as hvc1.

I think that reading hev1 flagged footage should be easily implemented by Magix, hope so anyway... 

set wrote on 9/26/2016, 5:10 AM

Any difference between 'hvc1' and 'hev1' ?

GJeffrey wrote on 9/26/2016, 5:18 AM
​​​​​Any difference between 'hvc1' and 'hev1' ?

Honestly,   I don't really  understand  the difference.

You can find an explanation here

 https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!topic/feature-media-reviews/MGS64mkrpo0

For the same bitrate,  size is identical and so is the image quality. 

Nick Hope wrote on 9/26/2016, 5:36 AM

A bit of research indicates something like this ffmpeg command line *might* work as workaround to re-flag the files as hvc1:

ffmpeg -i input.mp4 -vcodec copy -acodec copy -tag:v hvc1 output.mp4

I haven't tested it and there's a good chance I've got it wrong! The input and/or output might need to be changed to .mov. Can VP14 open hvc1-flagged mp4 files?

ffmpeg can be used in a command line and you could process a batch with a Windows batch file. There are also various free GUI apps available for it. You can also access its functionality through Vegasaur's Smart Trim custom commands feature.

GJeffrey wrote on 9/26/2016, 6:02 AM

Nick, 

How to use Vegasaur if the  file can't be imported in Vegas? 

Anyway,  ffmpeg is a workaround.  This issue must be solved by vegas programmer to avoid endless complaints.

Nick Hope wrote on 9/26/2016, 6:19 AM

Nick, 

How to use Vegasaur if the  file can't be imported in Vegas?

Oops! LOL 🙌 ... glad someone's paying attention...

NormanPCN wrote on 9/26/2016, 11:46 AM

hvc1 and hev1 difference are all about how video stream parameter sets are embedded into the data stream which can be important for broadcast type situations. hvc1 being the simpler of the two I think but I am really shaky on that.

AVC has always had the annex B thing and HEVC/H.265 seems to mark this in the header. A lot of AVC decoders actually ignored the NAL parameter sets in annex B. This separation with an ID in the header for HEVC appears to be a way to make this more rigorous.

 

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/26/2016, 1:26 PM

Why should VEGAS be limited to reading "camera formats", whatever they are? Is that advertised somewhere? A lot of users bought VEGAS to edit files created by other means than cameras.

Why should VEGAS be limited to reading "camera formats", whatever they are? Is that advertised somewhere? A lot of users bought VEGAS to edit files created by other means than cameras.

Vegas had always a clear focus on camera footage, if you believe it or not. We had a lot of cases where user wanted to use Vegas for other types of footage - and failed. 

NormanPCN wrote on 9/26/2016, 2:15 PM

HEVC/H.264 is output by some legitimate video cameras. So does that by definiton make it a camera format? If so, then why is an HEVC file from a camera a camera format and not some other file with HEVC? MOV, MP4, hvc1, hev1? AVC in MOV or MP4 is certainly a camera format. So should Vegas read an AVC/MP4 file it renders. It does not come from a camera.

One could endlessly go on about the near sightedness of using the term "camera format" and "is no camera format, so why should Vegas read that". My original question stands.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/26/2016, 2:41 PM

No idea what is so hard to understand about such a trivial point. Vegas was never developed to be able to read all kind of formats, but has always focused itself to formats from different cameras. If you need a very broad tool for the conversion of different formats then tools like TMPGenc will better support your needs. But even that will have limitations, for example it is not able to import XAVC I.

But I suggest that you open a support ticket.

Nick Hope wrote on 11/19/2016, 9:33 AM
After further testing, HEVC footage can be read by Vegas only if they are flagged as hvc1, not hev1 (info from mediainfo).

So far Mercalli and Handbrake flag the files as hev1. X265 encoder (used in Megui for example) & Vegas own h265 encoder flag the file as hvc1.

I think that reading hev1 flagged footage should be easily implemented by Magix, hope so anyway... 

Vegas Pro 14.0 build 201 will read HEVC files rendered by Handbrake with the codec ID "hev1" (reported by MediaInfo) as well as HEVC files rendered by Vegas itself with the codec ID "hvc1" so it looks like this issue is fixed.

megabit wrote on 11/19/2016, 9:50 AM

Not quite though - the implementation is buggy. Plenty of gotchas like green frames etc. 

Nick Hope wrote on 11/19/2016, 9:56 AM

Not quite though - the implementation is buggy. Plenty of gotchas like green frames etc. 

Is that from Mercalli 4.0 SAL? What specs did you render to? MediaInfo report would be useful. Can you share a sample?

Cornico wrote on 11/19/2016, 10:07 AM

Vegas Pro 14.0 build 201 will read HEVC files rendered by Handbrake with the codec ID "hev1" (reported by MediaInfo) as well as HEVC files rendered by Vegas itself with the codec ID "hvc1" so it looks like this issue is fixed.

👍👍👍 This build now imports all my kinds of H.265 and plays them smooth on the timeline.👍👍👍